I wonder how quickly people will lose that detachable rebound knob other than that I am curious to see what people think about them after the newness wears off.

 

Remember my OG Vivid Air as an eye opener for dh performance. Just s liiitle bit sceptical on the bypass the first 10%

Sent fra min SM-S906B via Tapatalk

 

Remember my OG Vivid Air as an eye opener for dh performance. Just s liiitle bit sceptical on the bypass the first 10%

Sent fra min SM-S906B via Tapatalk

Yea what's the point of the bypass when you're sag is probably closer to 30%? Maybe flying through the first 10% landing a jump is good? Seems silly.

 

RS flat makes better products than Fox. IMO, this new Vivid and the EXT Arai are now the premier large air can shocks.

 

What are you basing that on? Clearly you haven't ridden the Vivid. Sounds a little hyperbolic.

 

Yea what's the point of the bypass when you're sag is probably closer to 30%? Maybe flying through the first 10% landing a jump is good? Seems silly.

Do you ever ride fast, where your tires are essentially gliding/ skipping across the surface of the trail and your tires are off the ground entirely maybe every few feet of travel?

In that situation this shock is going to do a better job of maintaining contact with the ground.

 

Agreed. Same theory as suspension on Baja race trucks, where the top ~10% of travel is undamped, free floating, always moving.

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295K likes, 928 comments - feelbaja on August 9, 2023: "Full send @apdalylopez 😧🚀 at 2018 San Felipe 250 by @scoreinternational #trophytruck #neverlift #fullthrottle #whoops #baja #mexico #offroad #desertracing #feelbaja".

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My issue with RS shocks is the tunes are always so weird. I have a 2023 RC2T that feels like it has the XC dad tune - lot's of compression in the initial stroke to prevent the bike from bobbing while pedaling but then blows thru the travel. I ended up fully opening LSC and closing HSC. For actual aggressive riding it doesn't compete with my 2020 X2 (pre VVC) on the other bike.

 

I always run Dad tune 2.0 on my shocks... softAF off the top, very little midstroke support, and with a hard bottomout at the end. At the end of blue runs I flex to the other Dad-duro types about how I bottomed half a dozen times because I was riding so hard. The HBO on this shock appeals to me for sure.

 

Interesting shock. Previous vivid was a twin-tube and this one keeps that layout (like a coil with air-sleeve aka CCDB, FLOAT X2 etc) but is single tube.
In the Rockshox lineup it's most like a Super Deluxe Coil with an air-sleeve. Piggybacks look interchangeable.

Agreed. Same theory as suspension on Baja race trucks, where the top ~10% of travel is undamped, free floating, always moving.

Feel Baja on Instagram: "Full send @apdalylopez 😧🚀 at 2018 San Felipe 250 by @scoreinternational #trophytruck #neverlift #fullthrottle #whoops #baja #mexico #offroad #desertracing #feelbaja"

295K likes, 928 comments - feelbaja on August 9, 2023: "Full send @apdalylopez 😧🚀 at 2018 San Felipe 250 by @scoreinternational #trophytruck #neverlift #fullthrottle #whoops #baja #mexico #offroad #desertracing #feelbaja".

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Bypass shocks aren't new to MTB, Risse made a lot of them in the 90's: Terminator Damper - Risse Racing Technology - replacement air shocks for mountain bikes
In race trucks they're used in a similar manner to reduce/adjust damping in certain parts of the stroke. Another variation was "groove tube" where they literally groove the tube to let oil bypass the piston. But grooves flow in both directions where external bypass tubes are checked to operate in one only.

I can't imagine anyone undamping travel as undamped travel gets wildly out of control.

At this stage it's not clear how RS have done it. It's a single tube shock so it has to be something like a groove tube concept to let oil bypass around the piston. They've also got the "countermeasure" top-out spring in there which likely works in the same ~10% of stroke.

Service guide has a lot of proprietary tools. Look-out Fox! The most expensive tool-kit wars are on.

 

Interesting shock. Previous vivid was a twin-tube and this one keeps that layout (like a coil with air-sleeve aka CCDB, FLOAT X2 etc) but is single tube.
In the Rockshox lineup it's most like a Super Deluxe Coil with an air-sleeve. Piggybacks look interchangeable.

That's basically all it is.

I will be interested to see how good the shaft sealing is.

 

any details yet on the outer diameter (width) measurement on the air can?

 

Someone in the Pinkbike comments said they reached out to SRAM and was told 63mm.

 

I only looked at the first pages.
Too many parts in the exploded view. I'm not sure if I'm looking at a clock or at a MTB shock.
I hope it's as good as a well tuned Van RC that has 1500 less parts in it.
At least they removed one tube.

 

What are you basing that on? Clearly you haven't ridden the Vivid. Sounds a little hyperbolic.

Generally Fox suspension components have been outclassed every step of the way by RS products with RS having better valving, better stiffness, better reliability, better air spring design, etc.

Fox suspension looks pretty though!

That said Fox stuff has gotten worlds better in the last 2 years and I even ordered a Fox coil shock just yesterday as it's a proper shim valve system and can be easily modified.

 

Generally Fox suspension components have been outclassed every step of the way by RS products with RS having better valving, better stiffness, better reliability, better air spring design, etc.

Fox suspension looks pretty though!

That said Fox stuff has gotten worlds better in the last 2 years and I even ordered a Fox coil shock just yesterday as it's a proper shim valve system and can be easily modified.

More hyperbole

 

the german version of the shim tuning guide is already updated with the new Vivid 2024 tunes:

5 MB	Kolben-Tuning-Handbuch für Hinterbaudämpfer

 

Also the english version has been made available. https://www.sram.com/globalassets/d...s/document-hierarchy/tuning-manuals/rockshox-rear-shock-piston-tuning-guide.pdf

I wonder why the completely new naming of the tunes.
Two rebound tunes R25 and R55, where R25 is the old digressive and R55 "linear".

For compression there are four tunes: C26, C30, C34 and C37.

Similar naming is on Sidluxes: R57, R81, R87 and C27, C30, C33

Anyone knows what these numbers reflect and why switch from old L, M, H naming? ...although they got a little stupid with LC and L1 when someone figured that even lower than L is needed...and with hotdog piston you can get again lower than those!

 

NO.

RS stiffness has been measured on lab instruments and in every category RS is notably more rigid than Fox. A Lyriq 35 is more rigid than a Fox 36, for instance. And a few years back, the difference was actually really large.
RS at times has real shims compared to the poppet valves and too small bleed ports used in Fox products.
The air spring is considered better in most RS products.
Creaky steerers and blown X2 shocks are super common. The old Sid 120 clunked, but didn't actually break.

This part is subjective, but I've rarely been a fan of how Fox suspension components rode.

Between the 2 big players, the RS stuff just works better. The new Vivid air when used in the right application should continue that pattern.

 

Lol sure thing bro. “The air spring is considered better in many rs products.” Very scientific.

 

Don't want to defend Fox by any means (I ride RS) but Charger 2.1 is even softer than Grip. With even worse midvalve design.. Until recently they by default used preloaded rebounds stacks in their shocks (until MY23)..
Fox's VVC system is quite novel (but their implementation is another topic..), airspring in F38 was also quite clever (RS copied this approach in new Boxxer and I'm sure they will do the same in MY25 Zeb)..
OTOH, it's true that RS's forks are stiffer, this was actually measured in lab.. they are usually easier to work with, service procedures are simple, you dont need that much proprietary tools..
All in all, I would say both companies have their pros and cons

 

I’ve been around long enough to see both RS/Fox and Shimano/SRAM leapfrog one another, have major gaffes, etc to basically see them as same ****, different toilet.

 

I can't imagine anyone undamping travel as undamped travel gets wildly out of control.

If I remember correctly, DT Swiss did something similar with their F535 One fork. The very top part of the travel was undamped or very close to it.

 

I've never seen the DT (and probably never will), but Manitou has ~25 years on TPC+ which has two compression pistons and one floats to give 10-40mm of lighter compression damping at the front axle.
It's very different to "undamped travel" though.

 

TPC + is amazing! Long live dorado!

 

Also, what is the hydraulic topout shown here Vivid Development - SRAM ? (everywhere is only mentioned HBO, not HTO)

The "standard damper" is probably spr dlx coil, so they added one glidering and reed check valve for touchdown.

Did some deciphering and the C30 seems shimwise identical to L1 on spr dlx coil B1:

And C37 to M

So the range is now a little smaller compared to previous...if the piston ports are identical.

 

Also, what is the hydraulic topout shown here Vivid Development - SRAM ? (everywhere is only mentioned HBO, not HTO)

Hydraulic top-out is on almost all rear shocks and has been for decades. The ones that don't are those with pie-slice rebound ports. Those ones have to limit spring preload to almost nothing.

 

I had my first ride on the Vivid yesterday in Schladming.

Any questions?

 

Any comments on aspects that stood out about it? Things it did well, and less well.

 

Would be great if it added a meaningful insight into the damping. Something like C26 = 26N@1m/s or something similar.

But that would be useful, so I kind of doubt it.

I'll be keeping an eye out for Vivid air take offs and have to give one a shot.

 

Hydraulic top-out is on almost all rear shocks and has been for decades.

except all twin-tube designs

 

All twin tubes, or just most?

 

I never noticed an hydraulic top out in any shock I had. Maybe that's just because I'm just bad at noticing things tho.

 

For real, I'm over here watching the "Ford vs Chevy" argument while I'm sitting in my Lamborghini. [emoji23] (That would would be Manitou, EXT, and avy)


"Yeah but mine is stiffer" "well mine has kashima and it's orange" "yeah but does it have laser sag indicators etched into the stanchion?"

And your following this thread why? 😂 I’m sure there must be Lamborghini threads in the forum

 

And your following this thread why? [emoji23] I’m sure there must be Lamborghini threads in the forum

I was actually curious about why RS did the whole "no damping for the first 10%" thing. And I got my answer! Makes sense.

I also think that both Fox and RS make excellent rear shocks. You just send them off to a tuner, they strip the chassis and throw away all of the Fox/RS parts, and put in custom pieces, and wa-la! A great shock!

 

For real, I'm over here watching the "Ford vs Chevy" argument while I'm sitting in my Lamborghini. [emoji23] (That would would be Manitou, EXT, and avy)


"Yeah but mine is stiffer" "well mine has kashima and it's orange" "yeah but does it have laser sag indicators etched into the stanchion?"

This guy over here be like...

Only joking.
AVY for life... Or until I find something better.

 

wa-la

The word you're looking for is voilà.

 

Put a 230x65 Vivid on our spring rate tester today, I only got a quick picture but that’s 0/1/2/3/4 volume spacers at 160psi, rushed it a bit and I think 0 and 1 are slightly off. Tomorrow I’ll try and get it on the dyno.

On a bike it feels incredibly soft in the initial stroke and one on a bike sits in the travel slightly under the weight of the bike (standard bike not an e-bike). Also the transfer port for the air spring is pretty deep in the travel on these. I assume this is partly down to the bypass on the main piston.

 

I've had my Vivid for a few weeks. After setting it up over a few intense park days the best I can say is the difference from my Super Deluxe air is substantial in all ways. I haven't ridden a coil in years so I can't compare the Vivid to what many would say it's trying to replicate.

On its own it's super soft off the top, there's even a little sag under the weight of the bike. It's very linear through the majority of the travel, which is the biggest difference compared to the SD. With the SD I could sort of guess how deep into the shock travel I got on a certain size hit. With the Vivid I was always surprised when I checked the travel ring when I was bracketing over the same run. I guess that means there's always a variance to speed/force/etc. even if you're hitting the same run multiple times and the Vivid is able to account for that. There's no harshness at all to the HBO ramp up at the end of travel. I couldn't get it to bottom, though my ankles, shoulders and back only let me take that so far!

What I noticed the most was how well it smoothed breaking bumps and popped off jumps while still "plowing" through medium, semi-repetitive terrain. The least scientific thing I can say is it felt like it added 2' of travel without feeling sluggish.

For the record I have a 2022 Canyon Torque. Stock Vivid 250x70 1 token/Reb25/Comp34
HSC -1
LSC +1
HBO -1
Reb +12
PSI 210

 

I'm running an aftermarket vivid on my 22 transition patrol and it feels just as good as the stock float x2 that came with my frame. I think the vivid might even have better small bump compliance than the x2. I run about 33% sag and your comment about plowing through medium semi-repetitive terrain is spot on. I might have it tuned for my frame when it's time to service but for now it feels great. I have 1 token installed and set HBO to max.