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So is the 2022 X2 different?


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The one I called 2021 was probably a 2022 model year according to Fox. When they ship them in the first few months of 2021 it's kinda confusing. They've almost lapped a whole year.

That new design does use shims in the base-valve underneath the poppet. So it's tunable. The poppet spring is incredibly stiff.
 
The one I called 2021 was probably a 2022 model year according to Fox. When they ship them in the first few months of 2021 it's kinda confusing. They've almost lapped a whole year.

That new design does use shims in the base-valve underneath the poppet. So it's tunable. The poppet spring is incredibly stiff.
Got ya. So if I’m about to rip out a Float X performance and replace it with a Float X Factory or X2 Factory, what would you choose? Only these two options. Cheers


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Surprised to see so much hate for the 2021 X2 ... I have it on my Mach 6 which I mostly use for downhill and bike parks. Not huge pro line jumps but big enough. Maybe it's cause my weight, I'm only 155 lbs but I absolutely love it. Can't say I have a ton to compare it to, but I'm not looking for a poppy feeling as much as a smooth and consistent shock. Haven't needed it repaired or anything, and it did take about 2 months before I got it dialed in. Shame so many people have one and don't take the time to understand it's settings, but I couldn't possibly be happier with it.
 
The one I called 2021 was probably a 2022 model year according to Fox. When they ship them in the first few months of 2021 it's kinda confusing. They've almost lapped a whole year.

That new design does use shims in the base-valve underneath the poppet. So it's tunable. The poppet spring is incredibly stiff.
So it has a stiff poppet spring. What does that exactly mean for most users? Are you throwing shade from a tuners perspective or do you believe Fox has created a dog for the majority of users?


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So it has a stiff poppet spring. What does that exactly mean for most users? Are you throwing shade from a tuners perspective or do you believe Fox has created a dog for the majority of users?


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It means the HSC adjuster increases damping so much that the oil compresses and the shock body swells when it takes a hit. Introducing a lot of lag and hysteresis that elongates the bump and causes the damper to act like spring more than a damper.

See these plots for how bad they behave and how they can look after. This graph below should have lines instead of loops.
Image


This is how it looks on a continuous velocity plot. Red is lots of lag and hysteresis. Blue is slightly better after a good bleed but still unacceptable as the damper is working like a spring which is storing and returning energy even after change of direction. Green is after it's been retuned.

Image
 
It means the HSC adjuster increases damping so much that the oil compresses and the shock body swells when it takes a hit. Introducing a lot of lag and hysteresis that elongates the bump and causes the damper to act like spring more than a damper.

See these plots for how bad they behave and how they can look after. This graph below should have lines instead of loops.
View attachment 1961530

This is how it looks on a continuous velocity plot. Red is lots of lag and hysteresis. Blue is slightly better after a good bleed but still unacceptable as the damper is working like a spring which is storing and returning energy even after change of direction. Green is after it's been retuned.

View attachment 1961529
Thanks for the detailed reply Dougal. Who on earth is running max l&h speed compression though? The average Joe probably isn’t right? Granted, I’ve not looked to see how many clicks there are but what do those plots look like in the middle of the range? So out of the box the better option is the Float X for someone who has no desire for a tuned shock? Appreciate your input on these forums.


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Thanks for the detailed reply Dougal. Who on earth is running max l&h speed compression though? The average Joe probably isn’t right? Granted, I’ve not looked to see how many clicks there are but what do those plots look like in the middle of the range? So out of the box the better option is the Float X for someone who has no desire for a tuned shock? Appreciate your input on these forums.


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If you can't run max HS and LS then those settings are useless. There are shim stacks in those valve so why did they make them literally stiffer than the shock chassis can handle?
 
If you can't run max HS and LS then those settings are useless. There are shim stacks in those valve so why did they make them literally stiffer than the shock chassis can handle?
Perhaps they are useless settings and fox finds most people just +/- a few clicks around the middle. Maybe it’s marketing to have more click? Do you have plots for mid-range settings? I couldn’t give a toot how the shock performs at extreme adjustment ranges if it performs acceptably in the middle of the range and still has room for some adjustment. Does the stiff shim stack mean any increase in compression damping is too great to be useful? Apologies if I’m over my head here.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply Dougal. Who on earth is running max l&h speed compression though? The average Joe probably isn’t right? Granted, I’ve not looked to see how many clicks there are but what do those plots look like in the middle of the range? So out of the box the better option is the Float X for someone who has no desire for a tuned shock? Appreciate your input on these forums.


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If the shock keeps blowing through the travel then you need to crank up the HSC, specially for heavy riders from personal experience with previous X2s and the new one
 
Perhaps they are useless settings and fox finds most people just +/- a few clicks around the middle. Maybe it’s marketing to have more click? Do you have plots for mid-range settings? I couldn’t give a toot how the shock performs at extreme adjustment ranges if it performs acceptably in the middle of the range and still has room for some adjustment. Does the stiff shim stack mean any increase in compression damping is too great to be useful? Apologies if I’m over my head here.
The green curve shown above (green, red, blue on same plot) shows the amount of damping the rider needed and he was not a heavy rider. The shock was incapable of delivering that damping force without HSC and LSC being cranked and producing the lag and hysteresis you can see.

In stock form (red) it delivers similar damping force where it crosses the 0 point to the green plot, but was harsh and uncontrolled. Bleeding it better (blue line) means you'd be able to run a bit less HSC to mitigate but it's still there.

I don't go running damper curves for every click of damper position because it literally takes days. I test extremes and run through a special sequence of clicker settings at different speeds to draw the whole envelope of what the shock is capable of and how much each clicker influences the others (rebound influencing compression etc).
This is already 30-40 dyno runs for each shock configuration or tune. You can't run them through too fast or the shock gets too hot and the results drift from reality (no point testing at 80C if the shock is going to be running 20-40C).

For those three plots in one graph you're looking at about 120 dyno runs already.
 
my experience with the x2 running close to max hsr and max hsc @160 lb on a transition spire: blew oil out the compression adjuster / lsr adjuster in a short period of riding over 10k in elevation: lots of big hits and big terrain. fox's explanation was basically has it lost damping? ok, no then run it or we can do a "full service." this has happened twice on said x2
 
my experience with the x2 running close to max hsr and max hsc @160 lb on a transition spire: blew oil out the compression adjuster / lsr adjuster in a short period of riding over 10k in elevation: lots of big hits and big terrain. fox's explanation was basically has it lost damping? ok, no then run it or we can do a "full service." this has happened twice on said x2
Wow, oil started leaking through the blue compression controls?! How did you notice it? How much would you say came out?
 
over 5cc's of damper fluid at least, i notice those things... no lose in damping but absolutely not what a new float x2 should do. base valve seals maybe the case or it could be something else. i generally ride places over 10k, long burner descents. could be the overall friction in the system. im sure someone could chime in
 
over 5cc's of damper fluid at least, i notice those things... no lose in damping but absolutely not what a new float x2 should do. base valve seals maybe the case or it could be something else. i generally ride places over 10k, long burner descents. could be the overall friction in the system. im sure someone could chime in
Dam that is interesting, I just got a new Spire with an X2 myself. I read on another post that some Spire owners had to send their X2s back to shock because of. problem with the way the VVC was handling the bike specific tune. The owners reported hearing a rattling of some kind. Wonder if that is related to this.
 
nothing audible on my end. i do think - and this is no knock on transition because i love them - tunes are getting pushed out a hair too quick in these covid times. my impression of the the spire tune is that it is indeed on the lighter side. i think the spire comes in at an average of 23% progressivity? dougal has mentioned that new x2's behave a lil strange with internal oil pressure. again, someone could chime in on this shock and tune. the bike is fantastic, when i moved to a supe deluxe coil M/M, **** changed a bunch. i was on rails from that point on out.
 
nothing audible on my end. i do think - and this is no knock on transition because i love them - tunes are getting pushed out a hair too quick in these covid times. my impression of the the spire tune is that it is indeed on the lighter side. i think the spire comes in at an average of 23% progressivity? dougal has mentioned that new x2's behave a lil strange with internal oil pressure. again, someone could chime in on this shock and tune. the bike is fantastic, when i moved to a supe deluxe coil M/M, **** changed a bunch. i was on rails from that point on out.
Pretty funny/tragic/whatever that every time I've had an X2 speced on a new bike, it's had an issue. Canfield Balance, Ibis Ripmo, now the Spire. Everytime its like it's not designed for the bike. Maybe I should stop messing around and buy an 11-6?
 
Hmmm well the new x2 sounds like a bit of a pig. Anyone had any experience with the kitsuma air?


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Good luck finding anyone on here with experience on the kitsuma. Everyone loves to have on CC because of past reliability issues with the dbair inline.
I almost went with the kitsuma as I’m in NC where they are made, however, I’m also not far from the east coast fox service center. After talking with some local shops, who do not sell fox or CC, I went with the X2. It’s been great so far. You hear more issues with the X2 because it’s popular and tons of people run it.

I also take half of what Dougal says with a grain of salt. Love the dude, and he gives great info. But he seems to hate everything that isn’t manitou. Which, is his experience, and I dont blame him for it. But, I’ve had plenty of other suspension that has felt great that he hates.
 
I also take half of what Dougal says with a grain of salt. Love the dude, and he gives great info. But he seems to hate everything that isn’t manitou. Which, is his experience, and I dont blame him for it. But, I’ve had plenty of other suspension that has felt great that he hates.
Start riding the stuff in rocky terrain and dynoing it and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Almost every suspension company makes a complete mess of their damper tunes if not basic damper design.

I've been riding Manitou since 1995 because I can make it do exactly what I need.
 
Does anyone know if it is easy to change the stroke on the Float X or is it a full rebuild? As a possible option I could look at a new take off 55mm stroke shock but need 50mm. Having had a glance a the shock drawing I’m guessing it’s not so simple.


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