[POAH]

Sorry, but this incorrect. Tokens are used to control bottoming and ramp up in the second half of travel, and should only be added if there is excess bottoming once the first 50% of the travel is properly established with proper air pressure. By doing what you suggest, you will increase sag, increase rampup, and have a fork that gives less travel in repeated high speed bumps and feel harsher. Doing this is how you turn a 140mm fork into a 120mm or 100mm effective fork.

Setup should always follow the same process and order:

1) Spring rate. Set your pressure to where you have a balance between plushness off the top and support into the midstroke. For Fox forks, this is generally pretty close to the recommended pressure and about 15-20% sag (I say about, as fork sag is very hard to get repeatable numbers). If after doing this you find you are bottoming the fork, add tokens. Not using all the travel, subtract.
2) Rebound- This must be set after sag, as the spring rate will effect the amount of rebound needed.
3) Compression- Low speed to adjust how the bike shifts weight when you do things like tap the brakes. High speed will have some effect on bottoming.

you should use sag at all apart from say just the initial step. Even then there is usually manufacturers air pressure as a start. Any guide that tells your that sag is important should be ignored. 15-20% is going to be really harsh.

 

[233946]

you should use sag at all apart from say just the initial step. Even then there is usually manufacturers air pressure as a start. Any guide that tells your that sag is important should be ignored. 15-20% is going to be really harsh.

Fox forks are designed around 15-20% sag, hence their recommendation of such. Run more and the fork will get hasher. Many have discovered lower pressures result in increased harshness for the reasons I spelled out above.

 

[cityjackit]

Well guys, just got back from riding a ton of roots up and down hill. Probably about 8 - 10 miles worth. I didn't have time to mess with the LSC at all today as I was in a hurry to get some ride time with my son. I did however lower the air pressure in the tires from 30 and 28 to 26 and 24 front to back respectively. I could definitely feel a nicer difference going over roots and square edge bumps. Bike climbs crazy good. Going downhill singletrack with roots and rocks, the bike just isn't as plush. I can definitely feel harshness and it feels like the front end wants to dart if I'm not holding tightly.
I think maybe tomorrow if I can escape for a bit, I'll go try to slow up the LSC and try to get the HSC to act a little better.

Surprisingly though, the lower air pressure in the tires made little to no difference in rolling resistance. I was pleasantly surprised. But DANG this Ripley climbs. Power into the pedals and there is little to no squat, just forward motion. And that was with the shock in medium setting.

I think I'm going in the right direction though.

Thanks again guys and to you Cary.

Sid

 

[FrankS29]

Tire pressure will definitely make difference in getting grip and control.

as I said before, I’m usually around 22-23psi up front and 25-26 out back. Higher volume rims and tires of today allow for lower pressures without the slap of rolling resistance loss that we had before. In many cases, you’re faster at lower pressure because of the increase in control thanks to your tire conforming to smaller obstacles.

When pressure is too high on a modern set up you end up with a really harsh and bumpy ride. The tire can’t conform and you end up with a lot of uncontrollable rebound from the tire.

In all honesty, I adjust tire pressure before every ride. Conditions and trails dictate what tires and pressures I want to run. Roots, rocky, wet, muddy, pressure is on the lower end. Fast, grippy, smooth flow with jumps, pressure goes up.

With Higher volume tires that we have now, a few psi in either direction can made a pretty noticeable difference.

 

[Dougal]

The damper in that fork does not have enough compression damping for you. So you have to compromise with spring rate and progression (air pressure and tokens) which means you need more rebound damping to control it etc.

You end up in a spiral of contradictions that don't help. Ultimately you need a much much firmer base-tune. Like twice as firm as stock. Fox doesn't offer any, I do custom tuning but I'm on the other side of the planet.

 

[cityjackit]

Tire pressure will definitely make difference in getting grip and control.

as I said before, I’m usually around 22-23psi up front and 25-26 out back. Higher volume rims and tires of today allow for lower pressures without the slap of rolling resistance loss that we had before. In many cases, you’re faster at lower pressure because of the increase in control thanks to your tire conforming to smaller obstacles.

When pressure is too high on a modern set up you end up with a really harsh and bumpy ride. The tire can’t conform and you end up with a lot of uncontrollable rebound from the tire.

In all honesty, I adjust tire pressure before every ride. Conditions and trails dictate what tires and pressures I want to run. Roots, rocky, wet, muddy, pressure is on the lower end. Fast, grippy, smooth flow with jumps, pressure goes up.

With Higher volume tires that we have now, a few psi in either direction can made a pretty noticeable difference.

Ripley V4, same here sir. What do you weigh can I ask and what do you primarily ride?

Thanks Frank

 

[cityjackit]

The damper in that fork does not have enough compression damping for you. So you have to compromise with spring rate and progression (air pressure and tokens) which means you need more rebound damping to control it etc.

You end up in a spiral of contradictions that don't help. Ultimately you need a much much firmer base-tune. Like twice as firm as stock. Fox doesn't offer any, I do custom tuning but I'm on the other side of the planet.

Dougal, Im all ears sir and more than willing to listen.
By you saying theres not enough compression damping for me, ate you saying Im running out of clucks to make it softer essentially? I do not follow why a more firm or 2x firmer than stock will give me the plushness I seek. And by you saying theres not enough for ME, are saying me being 200 lbs and 6'3?
Can you explain briefly how the air spring and tokens will give me more compressio. Adjustment?

Thanks a ton Dougal

 

[FrankS29]

My Ripley V4 has (kinda) DVO front and rear suspension. Topaz T3 rear shock and used to run a Sapphire D1 fork, waiting on a Diamond D1 to be shipped.

I weight in at about 200lbs as well.

the two Wheelsets I run are both I9 Enduro 305 wheels. Fronts are Minion DHF (2.5” 3C Maxterra) front and Dissector (2.4” 3C Maxterra). Rear are Dissector (2.4” 3C Maxterra) and the other Rekon (2.4” 3C Maxterra)

I swap up wheels with trails, conditions or bikes I’m riding.

I tend to ride standard North East tight, twisty and chunky trails. Some newer stuff is machine built flow.

I will also bring my bikes on trips and this summer brought my Ripley on trip to ride in Pisgah.

So, I basically ride a lot of different stuff.

 

[cityjackit]

My Ripley V4 has (kinda) DVO front and rear suspension. Topaz T3 rear shock and used to run a Sapphire D1 fork, waiting on a Diamond D1 to be shipped.

I weight in at about 200lbs as well.

the two Wheelsets I run are both I9 Enduro 305 wheels. Fronts are Minion DHF (2.5” 3C Maxterra) front and Dissector (2.4” 3C Maxterra). Rear are Dissector (2.4” 3C Maxterra) and the other Rekon (2.4” 3C Maxterra)

I swap up wheels with trails, conditions or bikes I’m riding.

I tend to ride standard North East tight, twisty and chunky trails. Some newer stuff is machine built flow.

I will also bring my bikes on trips and this summer brought my Ripley on trip to ride in Pisgah.

So, I basically ride a lot of different stuff.

DAMN, you do get around. Pisgah is right down the road from me.
So you immediately swapped out the Fox stuff for DVO stuff? My fox stock stuff is 130/120. You still there with your DVO stuff? Why'd you swap?

Sid

 

[cityjackit]

The damper in that fork does not have enough compression damping for you. So you have to compromise with spring rate and progression (air pressure and tokens) which means you need more rebound damping to control it etc.

You end up in a spiral of contradictions that don't help. Ultimately you need a much much firmer base-tune. Like twice as firm as stock. Fox doesn't offer any, I do custom tuning but I'm on the other side of the planet.

Dougal, does my lack of compression with this fox 34 float grip2 have anything to do with only 130mm of travel?
I know you are not in the business of giving business to your competitors, but me being this continent, who would you recommend if its not fox themselves?

Thanks again

 

[Dougal]

Dougal, Im all ears sir and more than willing to listen.
By you saying theres not enough compression damping for me, ate you saying Im running out of clucks to make it softer essentially? I do not follow why a more firm or 2x firmer than stock will give me the plushness I seek. And by you saying theres not enough for ME, are saying me being 200 lbs and 6'3?
Can you explain briefly how the air spring and tokens will give me more compressio. Adjustment?

Thanks a ton Dougal

Base-tune is too soft and as you add high speed compression and air pressure the fork gets harsher. More air pressure and tokens is a band-aid because it doesn't have enough compression damping.

Dougal, does my lack of compression with this fox 34 float grip2 have anything to do with only 130mm of travel?
I know you are not in the business of giving business to your competitors, but me being this continent, who would you recommend if its not fox themselves?

Thanks again

130mm is enough travel, the difference between running say 130 and 150 is normally about 1 token to make the 130mm ramp up more.

I don't know anyone else doing the mods I do. The amount of work, machining and design required suggest no-one else has gone that far.

 

[FrankS29]

DAMN, you do get around. Pisgah is right down the road from me.
So you immediately swapped out the Fox stuff for DVO stuff? My fox stock stuff is 130/120. You still there with your DVO stuff? Why'd you swap?

Sid

It wasn’t immediate. I played and adjusted the Fox stuff till I got angry enough to buy new stuff.

I started with the Sapphire fork after I couldn’t make the 34 ride the way I wanted. I fell in love with how good the Sapphire was and decided to try the Topaz as the back end was easily overwhelmed when things got fast and chunky.

I put the old Fox 34 on the Middlechild I built this year and remembered quickly why I hated the Fox 34.

So I sold it and ordered a new DVO Diamond for my Ripley and put the Sapphire on my Middlechild.

The Grip2 upgrade on my 34 was about $400 all in. If I sold it for about $700 a Diamond was $1,000. So I sold it and upgraded to the Diamond for $300.

Or, as I presented it to my wife, “Guess how I just saved us $100”!

She didn’t fall for it, but she did accept it.

Win!

 

[cityjackit]

Base-tune is too soft and as you add high speed compression and air pressure the fork gets harsher. More air pressure and tokens is a band-aid because it doesn't have enough compression damping.



130mm is enough travel, the difference between running say 130 and 150 is normally about 1 token to make the 130mm ramp up more.

I don't know anyone else doing the mods I do. The amount of work, machining and design required suggest no-one else has gone that far.

Dougal, you say the base tune is too soft? Im confused. It seems its too harsh stock. I am tryinging to get more plushness by removing HSC. I am already at 6 out with obly 8 available clicks. To me, this sounds like the base tune needed to be softer or with more clucks available.

Sid

 

[cityjackit]

It wasn’t immediate. I played and adjusted the Fox stuff till I got angry enough to buy new stuff.

I started with the Sapphire fork after I couldn’t make the 34 ride the way I wanted. I fell in love with how good the Sapphire was and decided to try the Topaz as the back end was easily overwhelmed when things got fast and chunky.

I put the old Fox 34 on the Middlechild I built this year and remembered quickly why I hated the Fox 34.

So I sold it and ordered a new DVO Diamond for my Ripley and put the Sapphire on my Middlechild.

The Grip2 upgrade on my 34 was about $400 all in. If I sold it for about $700 a Diamond was $1,000. So I sold it and upgraded to the Diamond for $300.

Or, as I presented it to my wife, “Guess how I just saved us $100”!

She didn’t fall for it, but she did accept it.

Win!

Thats funny dude. I play the same game with my wife for my ktm moto stuff. I wonder sometimes if shes the master puppeteer by letting me think Im getting away with stuff.
Check your inbox man.

 

[cityjackit]

Opening the low speed more will cause the high speed to open later, as you are allowing more oil flow through the low speed needle. The high speed stack will only open when the pressure of the oil becomes high enough to push it open because the pressure pushing through the low speed has reached a high enough level. Chatter is a high speed event, so you should be opening up your high speed. A few other items:

1) Dropping pressure will likely not help and probably make it worse. As you drop pressure you put the fork into the steeper part of the air curve, so it will get harsher on chatter.
2) Pay attention to rebound, too much rebound will cause the fork to be stuck down, putting it in the steep part of the spring curve and creating harshness.
4) Tire pressures are important, Assuming you have the stock 35mm internal wheels, your front tire pressure should be about 20psi to start with and likely will end up lower.
5) Forks tend to bed in over the first few rides. Do not be suprised if after 5-10 rides the fork feels much different than it does now.

Enjoy it, great bike.

Well Cary and Brian, you guys were onto something. Last night, I spent the evening going over the "Seb Scott" link you sent as well as his LSC and HSC video. I reset the rebound both front and rear. Wasn't off by much from where I was by about two clicks on the rebounds. Brian, I went to 23 lbs and 25 lbs front and back respectively on the tires. Cary, I slowed the LSC on the front to only 3 clicks and opened the HSC all the way up. Hoping this would open my high speed sooner as you suggested.
I purposely went and rode a tougher, longer, rootier, rockier trail. The front end was completely different. I could hit the down hill rooty sections with no problem of glancing off and was as smooth as butter. The LSC at 3 out I believe kept my up in tight downhill turns and also kept the front up on dabbing the brake on fast or sudden things. I did the tire pressure the day before and that definitely helped, but the change came when I slowed the LSC from 6 out to 3 out and opened the HSC all the way up.

I did the progression test as Seb suggested, I believe I am good on the tokens also. The Fox page says the factory has three in there, but I did not check.

My bikes suspension was a breathe of fresh air today. I was all grins going back to the car after the day was over.

Can't thank you guys enough. Its supposed to be like high 60's low 70's tomorrow, Jan 1. Might go welcome the new year in on the trails.

Happy New Year guys.

Sid

 

[233946]

Well Cary and Brian, you guys were onto something. Last night, I spent the evening going over the "Seb Scott" link you sent as well as his LSC and HSC video. I reset the rebound both front and rear. Wasn't off by much from where I was by about two clicks on the rebounds. Brian, I went to 23 lbs and 25 lbs front and back respectively on the tires. Cary, I slowed the LSC on the front to only 3 clicks and opened the HSC all the way up. Hoping this would open my high speed sooner as you suggested.
I purposely went and rode a tougher, longer, rootier, rockier trail. The front end was completely different. I could hit the down hill rooty sections with no problem of glancing off and was as smooth as butter. The LSC at 3 out I believe kept my up in tight downhill turns and also kept the front up on dabbing the brake on fast or sudden things. I did the tire pressure the day before and that definitely helped, but the change came when I slowed the LSC from 6 out to 3 out and opened the HSC all the way up.

I did the progression test as Seb suggested, I believe I am good on the tokens also. The Fox page says the factory has three in there, but I did not check.

My bikes suspension was a breathe of fresh air today. I was all grins going back to the car after the day was over.

Can't thank you guys enough. Its supposed to be like high 60's low 70's tomorrow, Jan 1. Might go welcome the new year in on the trails.

Happy New Year guys.

Sid

Hurray. The best outcome possible. Have a great ride tomorrow.