whats the best carbon hardtail frame?

culturesponge · Jan 31, 2010

out of your finalists i'm really liking the Merida O.Nine frameset (complete build isn't bad also)

...but i wouldn't build another 26" hardtail considering the speed advantages of 29" wheels on a hardtail race bike - my own 29" frames choices are a coin toss to decide between the Niner Air Carbon or Cannondale Flash 29'ER 1 framesets:

Air Nine Carbon: http://www.ninerbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=bikes&taxid=271

Cannondale Flash 29'ER 1 http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaen...cts/Bikes/Mountain/Hardtail/Flash-29er/Details/1295-0FS291S-Flash-Carbon-29er-1

nino · Jan 31, 2010

sergio_pt said:
Here's my homework with the data from two bike magazin German tests:

Which one would you guys pick?

Problem is that in that test they tested the Scale RC with integrated seatpost.Usually the Scale weighs a lot less and would rank way higher.

Anyway - for me the flash is a no-go because of too much custom standards. I don't like it t when a manufacturer limits me in choosing oarts. As mentioned before the front derailleur alone will add 40g for example. All those nice absorbtion properties are due to that Cannondale seatpost (which is heavy). So if you replace the seatpost with a light one gone is also the nice comfy ride...
It might be for sure one of the sweetest bikes in stock trim but when built on your own i would look elswewhere.

That's where i see the Merida up front which only has the front derailleur problem (adding 40g...). I have never ridden a Merida but it would be one to look closer at.

And regarding the weight and ride the Scott is still one of the best frames and still rated high by all testers. It has the right mix of stiffness and comfort and the weight is great too if you look at the versions without (!) integrated seatpost.

quax · Jan 31, 2010

First of all, it is my believe that despite all the media/forum suggested differences HT frames are all pretty much the same. In that price range you're looking at they are all good.

Regarding the Flash I fully agree with nino. I almost fell for it myself considering too replace my Scale with it. However, I kept my Scale and got a Spark for comfort. If you want comfort on a HT go high-volume-tires-at-low-pressure. If that's not enough get a FS. By the way, in one of those tests, despite having similar stiffness, the Canyon scored better in "comfort" than the Flash. It's about half the price, isn't it? Canyon probably offers the best price-performance ratio, the frameset for about ~ €1250 (but unfortunately a funny seat tube).

I'd really base my decision on a) system weight (not only frame) and b) extensibility (e.g. no funny formed seat tubes or funny seatpost diameters or funny forks)

Kwik · Jan 31, 2010

All the flashes in the tests are preproduction versions. There was one testbike in or local shop size L weighing 7,5 kg total as claimed.

Now there is a real production version in the shop size M weighing 7,8 kg total. They put an frame only on the scale of the real production version en it did weight about 1200 gram. So real frames could be heavier, didn't see frame only on scale myself so I have no prove. But I did weight the complete bike myself at 7,8 kg size M.

My cannondale CAAD5 frame (2002)size M weights about 1550 gram. Strong, stiff, good comfort, bought its second hand so cheap, can use roadfront mech at 78 gram. And the paint job is even beter then the flash I think.

nathanbal · Jan 31, 2010

eliflap has a picture of a medium flash frame only at 960g from memory...

limba · Jan 31, 2010

Yeah, I've seen at least three Med. Flash frames that weigh under 1000g. Even when you add the direct front derailleur the frame is still lighter than almost any other.

sergio_pt · Jan 31, 2010

What is the weight of the current Scale without integrated seatpost?
In Scott website they say the weight is 980g for all versions...

The Scale is cool. I'm leaning towards Stevens Scope too, for the weight, frame structure feels strong, standard cablerouting and seatpost diameter, direct PM. It's the bike used by the Portuguese MTB Team, they have been doing good with it.

quax · Jan 31, 2010

My Scale 10 came in at 1058 g (size M).

Can't say anything about the Stevens but the price for the frameset looks really nice. Once owned the Juke from them, very lightweight alu frame. I liked it.

Mattias_Hellöre · Feb 1, 2010

As I said before in a another thread, I´m willing to do a clamp that could work on a Flash if anyone is giving me a mockup of this seattube.

Like using these:
https://byzarah.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/img_2717.jpg

A good suggestion maybe?

bottleboy · Feb 2, 2010

Cant find any reviews of carbon hardtails ón the Internet. Could someone post a link or img from a Magazine? Im very interested in the Scott scale models, but ofc others too. Regards

Broccoli · Feb 2, 2010

bottleboy said:
Cant find any reviews of carbon hardtails ón the Internet.

letsride29 · Feb 3, 2010

I vote Orbea Alma

I vote with smellycat. Orbea has proven itself over and over.

letsride29 · Feb 3, 2010

Quax likes the Scale (Scott). I've got a friend who recently bought ($$$) one and he's also really into it. I'm curious to ride it. Has anyone done a comparison of the Scale to the Alma?

nino · Feb 3, 2010

letsride29 said:
Orbea has proven itself over and over.

No true - Julien Absalon did-not Orbea

I think that guy would win on a old steel commuter as well...

Those frames are heavy and rather flexy...they're definitely not amongst those frames that take the most benefit out of carbon.

oldassracer · Feb 5, 2010

Cheers! said:
That is a lot of saddle to bar drop!!!! I wish I was that flexible.

wow being that flexible - some guys would never leave the house...:nono:

xcatax · Feb 5, 2010

nino said:
No true - Julien Absalon did-not Orbea I think that guy would win on a old steel commuter as well...

Those frames are heavy and rather flexy...they're definitely not amongst those frames that take the most benefit out of carbon.

Are you talking about new Orbea alma OMG 2010 frame or old ones?

I thought that was coming close 1kg

Salu2
Juan

nino · Feb 5, 2010

xcatax said:
Are you talking about new Orbea alma OMG 2010 frame or old ones?

[/IMG]

I thought that was coming close 1kg

Salu2
Juan

It doesn't really matter-Orbea so far has not built any decent carbon frames.
Neither light nor stiff...as mentioned they don't get the best out of carbon but they have the best rider which covers the weaknesses

LMN · Feb 5, 2010

nino said:
It doesn't really matter-Orbea so far has not built any decent carbon frames.
Neither light nor stiff...as mentioned they don't get the best out of carbon but they have the best rider which covers the weaknesses

There a lot more to a bike then weight and stiffness.

The question is what is the best Carbon Frame, weight and stiffness are definitely factors but not the deciding factors. Long term durability, ride quality and geometry are arguable the much more important. Weight and stiffness are just easiest to measure, the others can be rather subjective.

My wife raced my 08 Alma for a season and then for the past two years I have ridden and raced it just about exclusively. The bike has close to 10,000km of hard off-road miles on it with zero problems from the frame. It may not be the stiffest or the lightest bike out there but in the important durability category it has to be the near the top.

Of course my major complaint about it is the single water bottle mount on the small frames. Fortunately for us vertical challenged people that has been fixed on the new frames. (Oh and the new frames are built around a 100mm fork).

sergio_pt · Feb 6, 2010

nino said:
It doesn't really matter-Orbea so far has not built any decent carbon frames.
Neither light nor stiff...as mentioned they don't get the best out of carbon but they have the best rider which covers the weaknesses

Orbea has not built any decent carbon, nor aluminium frames...

I have an alu Orbea and it's heavy and wobbly. :madman:

that's why I need something better.

LMN said:
There a lot more to a bike then weight and stiffness.

The question is what is the best Carbon Frame, weight and stiffness are definitely factors but not the deciding factors. Long term durability, ride quality and geometry are arguable the much more important. Weight and stiffness are just easiest to measure, the others can be rather subjective.

My wife raced my 08 Alma for a season and then for the past two years I have ridden and raced it just about exclusively. The bike has close to 10,000km of hard off-road miles on it with zero problems from the frame. It may not be the stiffest or the lightest bike out there but in the important durability category it has to be the near the top.

Of course my major complaint about it is the single water bottle mount on the small frames. Fortunately for us vertical challenged people that has been fixed on the new frames. (Oh and the new frames are built around a 100mm fork).

Long term durability is not an important quality for race bikes, you can have a new frame every race, but important for someone that wants to keep the bike for some years. Difficult to measure but I may also say If the frame is stiff it's strong, if it's strong it's durable!
Ride quality, I suppose you mean comfort, it can be and it's measured, no problems here to me. If I need more comfort I may add a more forgiving seatpost.

Frame geometry is also important but any decent top level race frame as the correct geometry for it's purpose. And if it's the best it's a top level frame.

sergio_pt · Feb 6, 2010

I was told that the KTM carbon frames are around 900g. Cant find any real confirmation about this. Anyone has a KTM carbon hardtail bike? http://www.ktm-bikes.at/en/mountain/race/hardtail-carbon/Myroonprestige.php

whats the best carbon hardtail frame?

culturesponge

nino

quax

Kwik

nathanbal

limba

sergio_pt

quax

Mattias_Hellöre

bottleboy

Broccoli

letsride29

letsride29

nino

oldassracer

xcatax

nino

LMN

sergio_pt

sergio_pt

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