[grumpy old biker]

I'm having bit of an issue with rock crushing like sounds from my drivetrain. I think cause of sound is because of the chain, but I'm not sure why such has happened.

These are related parts:
Shimano SLX M662Shimano
Deore HG61 13-36Shimano
Alivio M410 22-32-44
KMC X9 73 9-speed chain

Everything, except crankset are bought at December last year, maybe around 500 miles on them.
Crankset was bought on August last year and was used with 8spd setup for maybe 400 miles before December upgrades.

First I did put this drivetrain to another bike, there was lot of crunching sounds and I could feel that in my pedals too, I did replace bottom bracket as old one was worn out, but no help.

On February this year I bought Trek 3700 Disc and at June I swapped whole drivetrain from another bike to Trek and put new Shimano UN-BB55 bottom bracket to Trek also to make chainline correct. Still same crunching sound, it is more when chain is clean and freshly lubricated with Shimano PTFE lube (apply, wait for hour, then wipe and ride next day).

I did put drivetrain which came with the Trek to another bike and it works there perfectly, without making odd noises.

Which causes the sound is either rear cassette or rear derailleur, I can easily feel those sounds on chainstays if I put my finger on chainstay while rotating cranks.

Rear derailleur visibly moves back and forth from link to link while rotating cranks steadily.

When I bend chain between my hands I can hear sand on it, but it does not go away even when I clean chain for an hour with chain cleaner tool.Also sound has been there from the very beginning, so I'm not sure it is the sand.

Chain rollers are quite movable but with force, they like to stick and there is sound of sand, but rollers do move quite a bit compared to similar amount driven Shimano HG54( or 53?) chain that came with Trek and which has been used on much harder conditions on my other bike, soaked to wet mud etc.

Could it be that Deore cassette and SLX derailleur needs some other type of chain or is my chain just bad sample?

If I get Shimano HG94 chain for 9-speed, could it be less noisy?

There is also bit of shifting issue, especially with clean chain when shifting from 7th rear sprocket to 8th shifting does not always happen, but that is best I have got shifting to work, all other gears work well and also when chain gets dirty it starts to work better, also noise becomes less.

I'm thinking that maybe Deore cassette and SLX derailleur should not be used together or not with KMC X9 73 chain, or maybe KMC chain is not so good, but for that I would need your more experienced opinions so I can decide which chain to replace.

Sadly SLX 9 speed cassettes with 36 chain ring seem not to be found, but if cassette and derailleur need to be same level to work together, then that is something to replace too.

Edit: Managed to repair truncated text by changing to basic editor, nothing too advanced works for Old Grumpy.

 

[TJay74]

Every KMC chain I've had sounds like that, even the one that came on my $5500 bike did after 300 miles no matter how well it was cleaned.

My resolution was to junk it and replace with a SRAM 1091r chain instead.

 

[time229er]

Every KMC chain I've had sounds like that, even the one that came on my $5500 bike did after 300 miles no matter how well it was cleaned.

My resolution was to junk it and replace with a SRAM 1091r chain instead.

has anybody else experienced one of those infamous "sandy" KMC chains?

 

[Shark]

My most recent grinding noise was from the jockey wheels on the rear derailleur.



Are you sure you have the chain routed correctly through the the cage?

 

[TiGeo]

Huh? KMC chains here on road and mountain bikes...very quiet. You have something else going on. Sounds like possibly a chain cleaning/lubing issue?

 

[grumpy old biker]

Huh? KMC chains here on road and mountain bikes...very quiet. You have something else going on. Sounds like possibly a chain cleaning/lubing issue?

I don't know, I did describe method of lubing earlier, as well as mentioned how sand noise from chain is not going away no matter how I clean.

One thing I forgot to mention that I have taken RD to pieces, cleaned and lubed everything while still no help.

Only thing that help is NOT to clean the chain, even gear changing gets improved that way, which certainly defies any little logic I have.

I did cleaned chain, cogs and pulleys very thoroughly again, then applied one drop of Shimano PTFE lube to each link, rotated cranks for about an minute, let it be for around 15 minutes this time, then wiped off any excess and let it dry for few hours.

After that I did hit the usual routes which include hard packed gravel roads, beach like sand and some dusty single track, after I came back few hours later, chain was much quieter and looked like in pic.

Then I measured chain wear, I got 12 1/16, with only ruler it is bit difficult to tell for sure, need to buy proper tool, but looking at the pic, that looks like worn as there is light seen between chain and the pulley?

So either way I need new chain, Sram or Shimano it is then and fingers crossed that there is no more issues, I hope.

edit: Oh yes, I have been using chain cleaner tool, but I did read now article which I found from MTBR beginner section cleaning sticky topic and there it was recommend to remove chain, maybe I give that a go, rotating cranks for an hour is quite lot more work than method proposed on that article.

 

[jlmuncie]

It sounds like you're using a dry lube, try a wet lube like Prolink instead.

 

[adaycj]

Ok, I think I understand that you have drivetrain noise related to the bike. All or most of the parts worked fine on one bike, but now sound bad on a another frame?

Everything you described sounds like derailleur bracket/hanger alignment. Chain line is another frame specific concern, but you state you have that covered.

 

[adaycj]

Ok, I think I understand that you have drivetrain noise related to the bike. All or most of the parts worked fine on one bike, but now sound bad on a another frame?

Everything you described sounds like derailleur bracket/hanger alignment. Chain line is another frame specific concern, but you state you have that covered.

 

[grumpy old biker]

Ok, I think I understand that you have drivetrain noise related to the bike. All or most of the parts worked fine on one bike, but now sound bad on a another frame?

Everything you described sounds like derailleur bracket/hanger alignment. Chain line is another frame specific concern, but you state you have that covered.

Sound was in other bike too, got transferred with the parts. It is sound which I would say should be heard when your chain is so worn that it does not fit properly to cog anymore.

I took some pics of how I clean parts, also one that shows grey/black goo appearing right after I did lube the chain, which I managed to wipe off later, so in theory chain is now lubed and clean.

I did use gasoline antifreeze to clean the chain in a bottle by shaking bottle while antifreeze and chain were inside, cleaned much better this way, there was lot less sand sounds when bending the chain.

Also I did notice that some links tend to be sticky, not moving very well, perhaps more cleaning would be needed, but also I took some pics which might help to tell if chain is at end of it's life already.

jlmuncie, yes, I use dry lube as wet lube tends to pick up so much dust, we have some places here that have that very fine yellow dust like sand which makes bike yellow in a few seconds, with wet lube there is a lot of thick goo after every ride.

Of course with Shimano dry lube situation seem to be quite same, cleanup after every ride and that is one problem, I don't like to spend cleaning parts more time than riding.

As gear cog has teeths and valleys, bottom of those valleys seem to be quite difficult to clean with my equipment, maybe that is where grey goo comes, but there is not very much of it, somewhere must be much larger source of that stuff. Tomorrow or day after I know if bottle cleaning helped anything. About 3 hours to clean drivetrain, then I see YT video showing how you clean a bike in 5 minutes, not where I'm riding!

Any thoughts about chain wear or is it impossible to tell from pics?

 

[jlmuncie]

I live in an extremely dry area where the dust is like talcum powder and don't have a problem with wet lube. If your chain has think goo on it after dusty conditions it's likely that you're over applying the lube. Lube each roller with a drop or two, let sit, and then wipe off the excess. Your chain should not be dripping with lube after you apply it.

I would recommend that you don't clean your chain with gasoline. Gas is poisonous and if you can smell it then you're inhaling it and it's absorbed through the skin if you have inadvertent contact. There are plenty of degreasers available that are non-toxic that work really well.

 

[grumpy old biker]

I live in an extremely dry area where the dust is like talcum powder and don't have a problem with wet lube. If your chain has think goo on it after dusty conditions it's likely that you're over applying the lube. Lube each roller with a drop or two, let sit, and then wipe off the excess. Your chain should not be dripping with lube after you apply it.

I would recommend that you don't clean your chain with gasoline. Gas is poisonous and if you can smell it then you're inhaling it and it's absorbed through the skin if you have inadvertent contact. There are plenty of degreasers available that are non-toxic that work really well.

I can't see how my procedure could be less dripping, one drop to each link, then I spend awful lot of time to clean chain so there is no visible anything in chain, after that I still let it evaporate for hours, often to next day, still thick goo happens and that is with Shimano PTFE dry lube. Maybe there are better ones out there, only thing I could get was that.

Old days we did wash engine parts with kerosene, nobody thought it being dangerous, today even eating is dangerous, how world can change in a lifetime

Not gasoline, gasoline additive, I think it is ethanol mostly, which is alcohol, just something I had lying around, I have pine based degreaser too, but it is not as good to get rid of everything greasy.

Talcum powder describes well what some of the dust are here, one ride can have anything from that to mud and everything between them. In theory dry lube should work well, but so far I'm not convinced, too much goo, same amount as with sewing machine oil actually, only goo is thicker and harder to remove.

For crunching noise however, I have been thinking, it must be sticking rollers in the chain, which require enough force to be applied to roller for it to move and as there is quite bit of play with rollers there is that what I can feel in chainstays and which I hear making sound when there is movement. It was quite bit less now after cleaning chain in bottle though.

Tough months going, so need to limit my spending, but maybe safest thing would be to get a new chain so that cassette is not wrecked.

 

[adaycj]

B screw adjusted in such a way that the rear der pulley touches cassette? Just another guess.

 

[grumpy old biker]

B screw adjusted in such a way that the rear der pulley touches cassette? Just another guess.

Sorry, not that either, it would cause metallic sound, bit similar to when chain hits FD cage, this is more like crackle and pop, but also very stone crushing kind. Also I have checked that too and there is good gap.

This sound is actually not regular as if it would happen each link, it is irregular, that would fit to one of my guesses it being the chain rollers sticking, maybe links sticking so that chain links are not moving too well.

Funny thing is that chain has been such from the package.

As I need to get winter tires, I think I place order for Sram PC991 Cross step chain, it seems to have nice reviews, maybe also Finish line dry lube and ceramic wet lube for the snow season, if those would cure the goo issues too and the daily cleaning needs hopefully would be then history.

Quite poor reviews this KMC X9 chain has got.

 

[J.B. Weld]

I think it's just a case of worn parts. 1/16 over 12 inches is usually time to replace IMO. The pictures aren't so good but those chainrings look pretty bad from what I can see.


I'd replace just about everything and forget about soaking your equipment in gasoline & such.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Men of science know that such things are caused by evil spirits.

 

[grumpy old biker]

I think it's just a case of worn parts. 1/16 over 12 inches is usually time to replace IMO. The pictures aren't so good but those chainrings look pretty bad from what I can see.

I'd replace just about everything and forget about soaking your equipment in gasoline & such.

This is interesting point, now that I did check from my logs, there are exactly 1200 miles on that chainring, rear cassette and chain are actually used about 400 miles.

So chainring is used a bit more than I did estimated, but it would be quite short life for crank I think, I have not cleaned with ethanol no more than one time and 0 miles after that, so can't be that and as this sound was from new chain, worn chainring sounds quite possible reason, even though sound was felt from chainstays, it could of course travel from front to back.

Sound was worse when chain was at middle front ring and around middle of rear cassette.

Maybe it is chainrings that are the cause after all, maybe I can get SLX rings installed to current crank (if they all have same BCD), replacement is always good excuse for upgrade.

 

[grumpy old biker]

I found what was causing this sound.

It was combination of SLX RD lower pulley and KMC chain.

RD has so strong spring that it somehow causes chain not to get to bottom of pulley, until pulley is turned about 1/8th of turn, then chain link snaps to bottom of pulley and that makes the sound.

I did swap pulleys and there was only minor difference, so swapped pulleys back.

Then I took low mileage Shimano 8-speed chain and installed that, there was no odd sound anymore and it does shift better even it is 8-speed chain on 9-speed cassette. Somehow chain fits to cassette and there is no any odd sounds on gear combos I prefer to use, bit odd, I thought that 8-speed chain should not work on 9-speed cassette?

I use that until can get new chainrings, chain and cassette. I'm not sure if I will get 8-speed or 9-speed chain, if this 8-speed works enough well, then I think it should have longer life than 9-speed chain, based on what I have read.

 

[DawnVoyager]

I live in an extremely dry area where the dust is like talcum powder and don't have a problem with wet lube. If your chain has think goo on it after dusty conditions it's likely that you're over applying the lube. Lube each roller with a drop or two, let sit, and then wipe off the excess. Your chain should not be dripping with lube after you apply it.

I would recommend that you don't clean your chain with gasoline. Gas is poisonous and if you can smell it then you're inhaling it and it's absorbed through the skin if you have inadvertent contact. There are plenty of degreasers available that are non-toxic that work really well.

OP is not using gasoline, he's using gas line antifreeze, which is usually some sort of alcohol, most often methyl hydrate. It's not great for you, but certainly not as toxic or messy as gasoline. Might as well use isopropyl alcohol, which is less toxic, if you wish to clean the chain. Or, you could once in awhile use a wet lube that allows you to clean the chain with water after a ride. That's likely also non-toxic and biodegradable too. An example would be this: Bicycle Chain Wet Lube

 

[slomtbr]

My 9 year old KMC chain became noisy also. Only SRAM & Shimano for me!