Kinda funny how the real world can topple perception that was created by numbers on paper.
Then we change caster angle by a large margin and holy! It can go down the drain without enough caster. Short rake forks will take out caster but you can put some back in with an angleset.
Give that a go and see if it changes for the better.

 

I live in Austin, and I’m friends with the owner of Chumba. I also ride with a buddy who is super tight with the owner of Vassago.

Both are legit options. Personally, I’d err towards a Chumba Sendero over a Stella (newer geo), or a titanium Vassago (moose knuckle or radimus or ludicrous). Both shops have passionate owners doing the right thing for their riders.

Oh, and if higher BB is important to you (it is for me) - Chumba prioritizes that. Short cranks can mitigate the issue.


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^ agreed, I'd suggest looking for something with a little more modern geometry. Something designed around a 120-130mm fork.

Op, both of those bikes are pretty outdated, the modern stuff is more fun to me.

 

We all know Vassago isn't the best on customer service, getting replies from Tom is spotty at best. Vassago has updated all of their frame geometries to more modern, however there seems to continue being cracking issues in the steel and TI.

I've heard Chumba is pretty good, however one of my riding buddies is finding out a little different there currently. Honestly, their geometry is a bit dated but isn't that bad.

Personally, I'd look elsewhere if you are looking to move to something else.

 

Honestly, their geometry is a bit dated but isn't that bad.

Personally, I'd look elsewhere if you are looking to move to something else.

So if the OP says that he/she currently loves a 2016 Vassago, which has absolutely despicable geo by todays modern standards, what makes more modern geo a better option? Not picking a fight, just genuinely curious.

I assume if they love a Vassago geo, they a) Have to pedal their bike in a neutral position often b) like nimble and agile handling c) don't want the turning radius of a short bus

 

@nitrousjunky I like your suggestions of the KM or Krampus. The Chumba Sendero isn't far off, and I would imagine a Nimble 9 would feel terrible if you ride places that the Vassago excels in.

I think the same saying about cars applies to newer bikes. It's way more fun to drive a slow car fast, then a fast car slow. Meaning some of these newer bikes like the N9 aren't going to be fun until you start going fast. I have no first hand knowledge, but based on reviews and the geo, I just don't see them being much fun at anything under 7/10ths.

 

I may not know what I'm missing. I'm 57, not very fast and stay on the ground. The Vassago works for me on the flowy singletrack I ride, mostly around Richmond and Williamsburg, Va but I do worry about it breaking. I've never really paid attention to the trends, I just ride whatever I have. I don't buy new because they aren't worth the money to me. I'm happy with something a little older. I do however like good stuff or at least what I perceive to be good, hence the Chumba. It was great with the short 51 offset fork but two hours later with 120mm low offset fork, it wouldn't turn. I'll put the short fork back on and keep riding.

I spent ten years on a scandium Niner One9. When it broke a chainstay, I found another and rode it until it broke in the same place. Then I had a couple Lynskeys that were alright but somewhere along the way I really started liking the small tubes of a steel bike. I've been on short and steep the whole time except for a few months two years ago when I owned a Sendero. At the time, I thought it was more bike than I needed and sold it. Kind of regret that. I emailed Vince yesterday about the possibility of getting another one. 5.5 month wait. I don't race anymore so maybe a little more bike than I need is just what I need.

 

I've been on short and steep the whole time except for a few months two years ago when I owned a Sendero. At the time, I thought it was more bike than I needed and sold it. Kind of regret that. I emailed Vince yesterday about the possibility of getting another one. 5.5 month wait. I don't race anymore so maybe a little more bike than I need is just what I need.

FYI one of my riding buddies ordered a steel Sendero the last weekend of October and is still waiting on it. He was told 5 months at the time of ordering also, so I wouldn't bank on that. If you would be wanting a large, send me a message as he may be selling his when it arrives.

 

I don't think you are missing anything with new bikes. I would bet you 2.5 beers that if you talked to a custom frame builder about who you are, the trails you ride, and your goals, he/she would likely come up with something very similar to what you are currently riding. 67-68* hta, 430-450mm chainstays, and a 72-74* sta. It's a proven combo that is excellent everything but extended seated climbs and bombing down chunky hills.

Waltworks custom bikes is fairly active on the board with a fair amount of users having him build their bikes, and more then a few occasions people have admitted to wanting modern geo on their custom frames, and having Walt steer them towards something that actually suits their riding style.

 

I have a 2021 Ti Sella and love it. I run 2.6 to 3.0 tires with a 44 offset fork - it does everything well for me. I went with the Chumba for 2-reasons: Made in USA and the Vassago had way to many customer complaint issues plus my inquiries went unanswered. I have a Chumba Sendero being shipped to me at this time and yes the wait times are not fun but in the end totally worth it.

 

What is the rear clearance like with a 29x3" tire?

 

My Stella is older, 12x142 rear and slightly different geometry. I borrowed a 51 offset 120mm Pike to try on it this weekend. Other than a little extra weight,I suspect I'll be happy . Among other reasons for choosing Chumba, one is silly but seems important to me. I like the way the bottom tube curves into the headtube near the bottom of it as opposed to the straight tube of the Vassago intersecting the head tube right below the top tube. Gonna go ahead and get on the list for a Sendero.
Nitrousjunky, the one your friend is waiting on is too big for me.

 

If the 100mm fork work great, why not just stick with that?

 

Interesting. That HTA angle might just be a tad too steep for me though! The new geo Carver gnarvester looks very promising though.

 

I guess Carver isn't moving a lot of these bikes, because the geo on everything looks whack. did they design these bikes in 2010 and not sell enough of them?

 

Where is this new geo Gnarvester?

 

I ride my N9 in Richmond all the time, just did Poca Go a few weeks back. It does the jump line and all of the drops perfect there. It also handles Buttermilk, Freedom Park as well. For the Lakeview trails/Old WV my VerHauen is better. Leakes Mill feels faster and better on the Vassago but my times are actually faster on the N9 there.Glad I have both

 

For what it’s worth, my Vassago Optimus has been all over the west. Down some pretty chunky trails in Utah, Colorado, Arizona. Zero issues to date. Tom has been good to respond 99% of the time. Which is pretty good for a small business.