[bogeydog]

Watch the videos guys, it all is very simple.

 

[ragetty]

@Quarq Tech - at which point should the Cal Status indicator turn green? I have used the Calibration Wizard 3 times (Marz 350 NCR 2015 gives CR 5.4, 5.6 & 5.5), and ridden numerous Sessions, but Cal Status stays red ...

Just discovered the answer to my problem ...

While the Wizard can apparently calibrate/recognise a Compression Ratio > 5.0, AND pass this onto the App, the maximum value that can be set manually in the App is only 5.0 - anything above this value apparently 'does not compute' and Cal Status always shows RED ...

So all those sessions hoping to find the right tune were all a waste of time, only because there is a simple warning neither in the User Manual, nor in the App and nor in the video that says 'Warning - Max. CR is 5.0'.

 

[ctguru]

@Quarq Tech

Alex, I'm really enjoying the product and getting some positive results

When you disconnect the hose from the fork, how much PSI is released? i.e. should the fork be pumped up a tiny bit after you have finished tuning and have removed the ShockWiz?

 

[Quarq Tech]

Hey Jan,

Sorry for the delay on getting back to you. Answers below.

Put my name on the "HSR-list"! I want to have this setting, too.
I would also appreciate to have the option to select the external settings of my shock and let the Shockwiz focus on these settings. I think this would improve the usability a lot, and maybe also the overall result of the optimization.

In respects to HSR, consider your name added. As for the settings selector, that may or may be something that appears. Unfortunately it may not be as easy as just hiding them. If you simply hide them from view, their impact on your Shock Tuning Score will still apply. You may end up in a situation where all the 'visible' Suggestions indicate 'OK' but but a 'hidden' adjustment is asking for change keeping you from that elusive Shock Tuning Score of 100. Hiding that from view would only create confusion. So at this point, including them and having the user ignore what they can't change, is no different than simply hiding them.​

I'm thinking about a situation where the app tells me to change HSC, but if I run a Pike, I can't change that. So I will try to change something else, and maybe the app will tell me again to change the HSC. I think, if you limit the degree of freedom of the algorithm to what's actually possible, you might get a better result in the end that compensates the settings you can't change on your individual shock/fork.

I see what you're saying, but at the end of the day you're not likely to end up in a different spot. If you do find yourself in a situation where everything but HSC indicates "OK", changing your Baseline Air Pressure (or which ever adjustment you choose) probably isn't going to correct it. Or worse, making an adjustment in an attempt to correct HSC will throw something more important out of balance. Remember that just because HSC on a Pike is not externally adjustable does not mean it does not have HSC. Isn't it better to know how that internal tune is working? In the end we feel that it is.​

Maybe you could also provide two different recommendations/modes in the app, one only with external settings, and for the advanced users, one that also includes settings that must be change by internal modifications of the damper system.

That's not a bad idea except ShockWiz is designed to be brand agnostic. And even if it were tailored to a specific brand, not all models within one brand have the same dials as the rest.​

1. If I have optimized my suspension with one of the tuning styles and am not satisfied with it and want to try out another, will the app directly tell me how to change my settings (at least a rough direction)? Or do I have to start all over again?

So, if we're talking about a single ride session then you don't have to start over. Changing the Tuning Style can be done at anytime and will not erase existing ride data. All existing data will recalculate to the new style which provides a new Shock Tuning Score, Suggestions and Detections. However, as soon as you select 'Start New Session' (which should be done after acting on any one Suggestion) this data is erased. So, if your talking about multiple ride sessions you have to start over, sort of.

ShockWiz works by directing us to a place that we like to call the 'Window of Happiness'. As the name suggest (window) it's not trying to direct us to a single point. The Window of Happiness consists of an acceptable range that we can be within. All four Tuning Styles exist within this window. Then, each individual tuning style occupies it's own portion of that window. So even if you tune to a particular Tuning Style and want to switch, you won't have that far to go. You're already within the larger window and just need to shuffle from side to the other.​

Quote from your tutorial: "You can always pick and choose what you like from each Tuning Style. Eg: Tune the Baseline pressure and ramp from one Tuning Style and then switch Tuning Styles to tune the dampers."
What is the actual benefit of doing that? Can you make an example? This sounds a little bit complicated and might mess up the overall setup if you are not knowing what you are doing.

This is certainly a more advanced way to use ShockWiz and will not apply to most. The benefit in doing this is to simply offer greater customization.

Each tuning style has it's own set of parameters, or window, that it deems acceptable for every adjustment. Because of this, each Tuning Style will offer it's own unique tune and ride characteristics. Picking and choosing certain parts of multiple Tuning Styles just makes it that much more granular.

If you have your bike tuned to Balanced and enjoy how it feels, but think the spring is still a bit too soft for you liking, follow the Suggestion for Baseline Air Pressure and Air Spring Ramp under 'Efficient' to firm it up.

Or you really like how the bike feels in Balanced but feel the rebound is a bit to sluggish, follow the Suggestion for Rebound within Playful, the parameters set allow it to be a bit faster.

Again this will not apply to most, and in fact I don't even do this myself, just know it's possible.​

Can you give a little more technical explanation about the different tuning styles? What is the criteria the suspension is being optimized to? Will it be basically LSC to reduce pedal influence or is there more to it? This is the first decision I have to make and I can't really decide if Playful or Aggressive would be best for me.

The app has information baked in that offers a quick explanation of this. We also have an article here that addresses it in more detail, here.

At the end of the day you might be thinking about this too much. If you buy a device the best thing to do is experiment a bit until you find what's right. Plus it's very easy to adjust the bike from one style to another once you're within the window.

Remember that there are certainly very WRONG ways to setup suspension but no 'perfect' ways. Once you're within the 'Window of Happiness' you can start experimenting with slightly increasing and decreasing certain adjustments to fine tune how the bike feels.​

I usually suffer from arm pump and pain in the fingers very fast, so I should maybe choose Aggressive to have the best bump compliance. But I also like to have a bike that "feels light" and can be lifted good over small jumps. I also need more "safety" when going over kickers/jumps to get a good position in the air. For that, I think Playful could be better. It would be nice to have some more details about that.
PS: I'm running a 160 mm Enduro/AM with a 180 mm fork.

Balanced is a very good place to start. I would suggest starting here and tune your bike in the order prescribe here. From there you can change the tuning style and see what effect it has.

Doing some hand and forearm strengthening exercises won't hurt either!​

Alex@Quarq

 

[TwoTone]

Hey Jan,

Sorry for the delay on getting back to you. Answers below.

Put my name on the "HSR-list"! I want to have this setting, too.
I would also appreciate to have the option to select the external settings of my shock and let the Shockwiz focus on these settings. I think this would improve the usability a lot, and maybe also the overall result of the optimization.

In respects to HSR, consider your name added. As for the settings selector, that may or may be something that appears. Unfortunately it may not be as easy as just hiding them. If you simply hide them from view, their impact on your Shock Tuning Score will still apply. You may end up in a situation where all the 'visible' Suggestions indicate 'OK' but but a 'hidden' adjustment is asking for change keeping you from that elusive Shock Tuning Score of 100. Hiding that from view would only create confusion. So at this point, including them and having the user ignore what they can't change, is no different than simply hiding them.​

Alex@Quarq

I think you may have missed his point. He doesn't just want that adjustment hidden, he wants the algorithms to not consider it.

Truth be told that's the way it should be, why are you considering settings that can't be changed into your recommendations?

 

[mpress]

Alex

My buddy and I both have identical 140mm Fox 34's w 3 volume reducers installed. Do we need to calibrate when we move it from one bike to the other or can we just reset the baseline pressure? Compression is the same between them both, air pressures are different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tuckerjt07]

I think you may have missed his point. He doesn't just want that adjustment hidden, he wants the algorithms to not consider it.

Truth be told that's the way it should be, why are you considering settings that can't be changed into your recommendations?

The algorithms they are using have to be quite involved. Once you have a software solution developed around an algorithm telling it to ignore a parameter it's expecting and still do its job well is no trivial matter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Sasse82]

Thank you for the detailed answer, it helps understanding the system more and more.
But for some of the points I still have some small feedback.

I'm thinking about a situation where the app tells me to change HSC, but if I run a Pike, I can't change that. So I will try to change something else, and maybe the app will tell me again to change the HSC. I think, if you limit the degree of freedom of the algorithm to what's actually possible, you might get a better result in the end that compensates the settings you can't change on your individual shock/fork.

I see what you're saying, but at the end of the day you're not likely to end up in a different spot. If you do find yourself in a situation where everything but HSC indicates "OK", changing your Baseline Air Pressure (or which ever adjustment you choose) probably isn't going to correct it. Or worse, making an adjustment in an attempt to correct HSC will throw something more important out of balance. Remember that just because HSC on a Pike is not externally adjustable does not mean it does not have HSC. Isn't it better to know how that internal tune is working? In the end we feel that it is.​

Maybe you could also provide two different recommendations/modes in the app, one only with external settings, and for the advanced users, one that also includes settings that must be change by internal modifications of the damper system.

That's not a bad idea except ShockWiz is designed to be brand agnostic. And even if it were tailored to a specific brand, not all models within one brand have the same dials as the rest.​

My initial thought was in fact, that some settings can compensate (partly) flaws from other settings. Maybe this doesn't apply to all of them but certain combinations could be possible (e.g. I can't change volume spacers but could increase HSC for bottoming out resistance). Including such an option might certainly involve some more R&D to thoroughly find the dependencies and develop the algorithms in that way.
For the proposed expert mode I already had in mind to have a shock configuration in which you can select which external settings are present, with that, this feature would still be brand independent.
Maybe you can just take these ideas and put them in your "collection for possible further developments". I don't expect to have that any time soon, but if your team comes to the conclusion that this might be helpful, I would be happy to see these features in one of the future app / firmware updates.

1. If I have optimized my suspension with one of the tuning styles and am not satisfied with it and want to try out another, will the app directly tell me how to change my settings (at least a rough direction)? Or do I have to start all over again?

So, if we're talking about a single ride session then you don't have to start over. Changing the Tuning Style can be done at anytime and will not erase existing ride data. ...
​

Can you give a little more technical explanation about the different tuning styles? What is the criteria the suspension is being optimized to? Will it be basically LSC to reduce pedal influence or is there more to it? This is the first decision I have to make and I can't really decide if Playful or Aggressive would be best for me.

The app has information baked in that offers a quick explanation of this. We also have an article here that addresses it in more detail, here.

At the end of the day you might be thinking about this too much. If you buy a device the best thing to do is experiment a bit until you find what's right. Plus it's very easy to adjust the bike from one style to another once you're within the window.

Remember that there are certainly very WRONG ways to setup suspension but no 'perfect' ways. Once you're within the 'Window of Happiness' you can start experimenting with slightly increasing and decreasing certain adjustments to fine tune how the bike feels.​

Okay, that sounds good. I thought initially that the styles are more different, but if changing between the styles can be done based on the optimized tune of any riding styles, I'm now motivated to try all of them out. (maybe except the XC one).
Just a pity that buying two Shockwiz is so expensive, with only one device, changing the riding style of a whole bike is a little bit more time consuming.

...
Doing some hand and forearm strengthening exercises won't hurt either!​

Most certainly, a Gorilla Heavy Grip is already on my desk.

Grtz Jan

 

[g.law]

I think I discovered the Shockwiz can fine tune sag. I set up the bike with about 20% sag to start and went for a ride. Collected data until confidence was 100%. Reviewing the suggestions Baseline air and spring ramp were green, but make HSC softer was red make LSC was yellow. Looking at Detection all were green except pogo red and bad. Since I can't adjust HSC, and LSC was fully open, I reduced baseline air to get 25% sag, reset the Shockwiz and went for another ride on the exact same course. Again collected data until confidence was 100%. Again, Baseline air and spring ramp were green, but soften HSC went to yellow and soften LSC stayed yellow. Pogo in Detections went to yellow. Increased sag to 30% and repeated. Pogo now went to green. Baseline air and spring ramp still green and soften HSC and LSC still yellow. Ran out of time, but I'm going to continue to slowly increase sag until HSC and LSC go green or yellow to make firmer or until baseline goes yellow telling me to add air. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I can fine the sag until I get green in Baseline air, spring ramp, and HSC won't that be the best setting for my weight with a shock the has no user adjustable HSC?

 

[Sasse82]

Hmmm, in my opinion 20 and 30 % is a huge difference in terms of sag and pressure.
How buch psi/bar did you change? The app says to change only 5% pressure if the indicator is yellow. But I would assume to achieve 10% difference in SAG you must change more than 5% of pressure, and the the indicator is still green?
Combining that, the Shockwiz seems not to be very accurate in it's suggestions / detections, at least with your setup?

 

[Quarq Tech]

Alex

My buddy and I both have identical 140mm Fox 34's w 3 volume reducers installed. Do we need to calibrate when we move it from one bike to the other or can we just reset the baseline pressure? Compression is the same between them both, air pressures are different.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey mpress,

As long as everything is the same you should be able to use the same CR. However, there are some variables here to consider. Mainly the amount of grease in the spring, or more accurately the amount of grease sitting on top of the air piston. Depending on when they were built or who serviced the spring (if they have been serviced) this amount can vary and can impact CR.

In the end it probably won't be enough to matter, but measuring each individually isn't a bad idea. As long as the volume of either spring is not changed (adding or removing volume spacers) the CR value of each fork can just be re-entered and the baseline marked when re-installed.

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

I'm having a similar issue, very frustrating, straight out of the box.
Unit shows up in phone BT menu, paired, cool. Open app wants to connect... as soon as it connects it asks about firmware update, i push yes, then it says "no device connected!" No device shows available in app connection menu. I've reinstalled app twice, tried different phones, cycled BT & phones on and off, and now changed the battery in the shockwiz.

So much for getting to know my new device this weekend.

Hey rfxc,

Apologies for the trouble you're having. You cannot connect ShockWiz to the Bluetooth menu of your phone. If you have ShockWiz connected this way, the ShockWiz app will not be able to see the device properly.

To correct this:

go to the Bluetooth menu of the phone and remove the device from the list of connected devices.

Once removed, open the ShockWiz app and try to connect, it should have no problem.

If you are unable to remove ShockWiz from the Bluetooth menu, you may have to let the device turn off first (10 minutes of inactivity) or remove and re-install the battery.​

Another thing to check is to see if your phone has a 'Bluetooth Auto-Connect' feature of some sort. If it does, turning this off should remove the need to 'immediately connect' once the device wakes back up.

Let me know if that does not correct the issue.

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

@Quarq Tech

Alex, I'm really enjoying the product and getting some positive results

When you disconnect the hose from the fork, how much PSI is released? i.e. should the fork be pumped up a tiny bit after you have finished tuning and have removed the ShockWiz?

Hey ctguru,

There should be no air loss from the spring. The valve core of the fork or shock should be closed before the seal between the ShockWiz hose and the valve stem breaks. As long as the there is not a prolonged 'hiss' when removing the hose, the only air escaping should be what's inside the ShockWiz hose and manifold.

You can ensure the same pressure is in the spring though, using the below process.

1. Prior to removing ShockWiz, connect to the app and see what the reported air pressure is within the App and write it down.

2. Then connect your shock pump to the available ShockWiz inflation valve. When the pump engages there will be a small amount of air loss (pressure inside the spring) due to the pump charging.

3. Using the reported value in the app, pump the spring back up to the pressure recorded in step 1.

4. Before removing the pump, record the value that the pumps gauge reports and write that down. You can now remove the pump and ShocKWiz.

5. Reinstall the shock pump on your fork or shocks inflation valve. Again, when thew pump engages there will be a small amount of air loss (pressure inside the spring) due to the pump charging. Now increase the pressure until the pump reads the same value that it did in step 4.​

Does that make sense? I know it's a bit manual, but that's the only way you're going to know for sure.

Alex@Quarq

 

[ctguru]

Hey ctguru,

There should be no air loss from the spring. The valve core of the fork or shock should be closed before the seal between the ShockWiz hose and the valve stem breaks. As long as the there is not a prolonged 'hiss' when removing the hose, the only air escaping should be what's inside the ShockWiz hose and manifold.

You can insure the same pressure is in the spring though, using the below process.

1. Prior to removing ShockWiz, connect to the app and see what the reported air pressure is within the App and write it down.

2. Then connect your shock pump to the available ShockWiz inflation valve. When the pump engages there will be a small amount of air loss (pressure inside the spring) due to the pump charging.

3. Using the reported value in the app, pump the spring back up to the pressure recorded in step 1.

4. Before removing the pump, record the value that the pumps gauge reports and write that down. You can now remove the pump and ShocKWiz.

5. Reinstall the shock pump on your fork or shocks inflation valve. Again, when thew pump engages there will be a small amount of air loss (pressure inside the spring) due to the pump charging. Now increase the pressure until the pump reads the same value that it did in step 4.​

Does that make sense? I know it's a bit manual, but that's the only way you're going to know for sure.

Alex@Quarq

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Quarq Tech]

Hello TwoTone,

I think you may have missed his point. He doesn't just want that adjustment hidden, he wants the algorithms to not consider it.

I am not sure that I missed that. I say later in the post...

"...it may not be as easy as just hiding them. If you simply hide them from view, their impact on your Shock Tuning Score will still apply. "

This means that hiding the Suggestion from view is much different than re-working the Algorithm, which is what this would require. Though it may appear a simple task on the surface, the underlying needs are very complex and may not be possible at all.​

Truth be told that's the way it should be, why are you considering settings that can't be changed into your recommendations?

I'm going to respectively disagree here. In the case of HSC, the absence of an external adjustment does not mean an HSC circuit is not present, and simply hiding the Suggestion from view does not remove the symptom that the fork or shock has.

You either include it in the Algorithm and have the user ignore it (current), or have the algorithm ignore it which then blinds the user to how that particular aspect is performing.

Knowledge is power! Just because an adjustment cannot be made easily, does not mean it cannot be made. Granted it may mean you can't do it yourself, but I still think it's better to have that information that to omit it. With the information at hand you have actual data backing up the need for said change which, if it requires a suspension center or the manufacturer to perform, further justifies the need to send it off.​

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

Just discovered the answer to my problem ...

While the Wizard can apparently calibrate/recognise a Compression Ratio > 5.0, AND pass this onto the App, the maximum value that can be set manually in the App is only 5.0 - anything above this value apparently 'does not compute' and Cal Status always shows RED ...

So all those sessions hoping to find the right tune were all a waste of time, only because there is a simple warning neither in the User Manual, nor in the App and nor in the video that says 'Warning - Max. CR is 5.0'.

As the hardware seems to be able to calibrate to above 5.0, I assume/hope this a firmware/software issue that can be fixed (SOON)?

Certainly this renders the current hardware/firmware/software version useless for the Marzocchi 350 NCR 2015 ...

Hey raggety,

My apologies for the trouble you've experienced and have alerted our App developer to get this corrected. There certainly needs to be some sort of prompt in place.

However the current CR limit, though not properly enforced at this time, is set to a maximum of 5.0 because you shouldn't encounter one that is higher. A CR of 5.4, 5.5 etc, for a fork (or shock for that matter) is remarkably high and somewhat doubt that it's correct.

I have reached out to Marzocchi (Fox) in an attempt to better understand how the AER air spring works, specifically the air pre-load adjustment. I'll let you know what I hear back to ensure there issn't something we're missing with the Calibration.

In the meantime, with the CR set to 5, and the Baseline air pressure properly set (App reports 0% when fork is fully extended and unweighted) does the reported Shock Travel in the app match the measured travel on the fork via the o-ring?

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

Im starting to get scared when mine shows up that I am going to become a beta tester to find all the bug and kinks like what you guys are finding.........

No bugs from my viewpoint, just some counter-intuitive setup with the bluetooth. All gold now.

Hey Guys,

Of course my view is a bit biased here, but let's be careful what we classify as a 'bug' and be sure that we know the difference between that and 'consumer education' or 'learning curve', as there is a big difference. Nothing like this product has existed before, so of course there are going to be some bumps in the road.

Agreed that the Bluetooth pairing issue that people are having is unfortunate, but that's not a bug. People are used to pairing Bluetooth devices to their phone in a certain way and have become more or less 'trained' to do it that way. Given the needs of ShockWiz we decided to use a process that most are less familiar with, which inherently makes it less intuitive. If there is a 'bug' present, it is in our communication / instruction of how to connect to the device, not with the device itself.

However, if there is something that you have seen that worries you please let me know and I will do my best to put you at ease.

Alex@Quarq

 

[tuckerjt07]

Hey Guys,

Of course my view is a bit biased here, but let's be careful what we classify as a 'bug' and be sure that we know the difference between that and 'consumer education' or 'learning curve', as there is a big difference. Nothing like this product has existed before, so of course there are going to be some bumps in the road.

Agreed that the Bluetooth pairing issue that people are having is unfortunate, but that's not a bug. People are used to pairing Bluetooth devices to their phone in a certain way and have become more or less 'trained' to do it that way. Given the needs of ShockWiz we decided to use a process that most are less familiar with, which inherently makes it less intuitive. If there is a 'bug' present, it is in our communication / instruction of how to connect to the device, not with the device itself.

However, if there is something that you have seen that worries you please let me know and I will do my best to put you at ease.

Alex@Quarq

I'm sorry but that is a bug. It may not be an issue with the software/hardware but it's an inherent design flaw. Any time you are dealing with systems that a user accesses through the front end and multiple people are having issues performing a certain task that's a good indicator that it's a bug. You can alleviate with better documentation but there is still a flaw in the system as the interface is not as intuitive as it could be.

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[ctguru]

Sorted!

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[lucifuge]

Sorted!

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out of interest what is the fork/travel. and riders weight?