[nikon255]

You got underpressure in your lowers (zip tie trick) or you let the air out of positive without equalizing negative.

 

[hitechredneck]

@hitechredneck Thought I already got this one. However if I missed something please be specific in what your asking for.

Alex@Quarq

Thanks, I am looking for how much can it hold as opposed to how much I need. ie. can I leave it fitted on for 20hr of local ride time over a week with different trails locally and have it suggest more of a all around tune? I do not need exact numbers but if I am only getting say 4 hours of data instead of 20 I would rather know that ahead of time. Also how do you know when it has reached its capacity for data?

 

[Quarq Tech]

OK, I went through the calibration again. When I let all the air out and go though the compression and extension parts, while I can compress fully, I can't get full extension...maybe I'm getting 80% it just feels to hard to go further. At the end of the calibration its telling me the CR is 2.0 and the that its sinking 8% into its travel when its not. Also the app's measurement vs the actual stanchions markers are off. When I put a CR manually of 2.5; it improves it almost 1-1. So that's what I left it at and went for a ride. Even after a decent ride its still on 49% wanting some jumps etc.

Does a CR of approx 2.5 on a 160 Lyrik with an effective token installed @ 70psi sound reasonable?

Also can you please confirm if the ratio is calculated in the calibration steps prior to inflation?

Thanks for all the info Lucifage. We'll take this one at a time.

How does the CR relate to reported travel???

ShockWiz needs to know the CR in order to calculate where the suspension is in the travel based on spring pressure. When you 'Mark Baseline Air Pressure' you're telling ShockWiz what pressure equals 0% travel. Any increase in pressure from Baseline as the fork or shock compresses can then be converted into a Shock Travel Percentage using the compression ratio. There is a hyperbolic relationship between spring pressure and travel.

Compression ratio (CR) is how many times the pressure in the suspension multiplies from full extension to full compression. ie: if the CR is 3.0 and the Baseline Air Pressure (full extension pressure) is 100 psi, then the pressure at full compression will be 300 psi (all pressures are absolute, not 'shock pump' pressures).

Since pressure and volume are related, the other way to think about it is the reduction in volume. Continuing the example above, the volume inside the suspension at full compression will be one third that of full extension.​

OK, I went through the calibration again. When I let all the air out and go though the compression and extension parts, while I can compress fully, I can't get full extension...maybe I'm getting 80% it just feels to hard to go further. At the end of the calibration its telling me the CR is 2.0 and the that its sinking 8% into its travel when its not. Also the app's measurement vs the actual stanchions markers are off. When I put a CR manually of 2.5; it improves it almost 1-1. So that's what I left it at and went for a ride. Even after a decent ride its still on 49% wanting some jumps etc.

That is really odd to me that you cannot pull the fork to full extension. When you deflate you aren't compressing the fork while the Schrader valve is depressed are you? If you are, stop doing that. If you create a vacuum in the positive chamber (fork sucking down) it will be very difficult to fully extend it and it will mean an incorrect CR.

When you Mark Full Extension is the measurement is the app reporting a negative psi?

Try deflating in steps. Let out some air, cycle the suspension to equalize the chambers, repeat. After letting some air out physically pull the fork to full extension, compress about 20%, pull to full extension, etc. You should be able to hear a very light 'hiss' when the piston passes over the bypass dimple.

When properly deflated you should have no problem pulling the fork to full extension (top out), and Full compression should be fairly easy, but you'll have to throw your weight into it.
​

Does a CR of approx 2.5 on a 160 Lyrik with an effective token installed @ 70psi sound reasonable?

I don't have a CR chart that I can reference so it's hard to say. Lets make sure you have the above correct.​

Also can you please confirm if the ratio is calculated in the calibration steps prior to inflation?

Yes, Mark Full Extension, Mark Full Compression, and Verify Full Extension are responsible for measuring the CR.​

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

Thanks, I am looking for how much can it hold as opposed to how much I need. ie. can I leave it fitted on for 20hr of local ride time over a week with different trails locally and have it suggest more of a all around tune? I do not need exact numbers but if I am only getting say 4 hours of data instead of 20 I would rather know that ahead of time. Also how do you know when it has reached its capacity for data?

Ah! Ok, so this is kind of half answered and half not in previous responses.

Thanks, I am looking for how much can it hold as opposed to how much I need. ie. can I leave it fitted on for 20hr of local ride time over a week with different trails locally and have it suggest more of a all around tune? I do not need exact numbers but if I am only getting say 4 hours of data instead of 20 I would rather know that ahead of time.

So what you're asking here is what we call a 'Ride Session' or 'Session'. A Session is a period of time that ShockWiz is collecting data. The start of a session is marked by selecting "Start New Session' within the app. Doing so erases all previous ride data and gives you a clean slate to start collecting data. A session can be as short as a few minutes or several hours. The only caveat is that your suspension adustments must remain unchanged during any one session. If you do make a change, such as adding a click of rebound, you need must select Start New Session within the app to clear the previous ride data, so you can collect new data on the what your suspension is now setup.

Additionally, you would want the terrain, or mix of terrain to remain consistent within a given Session as well.

Then, how do you know when ShockWiz has enough data? Check out our Confidence and What to Ride Next Article , it explains this well.

Confidence and What To Ride Next ​

Also how do you know when it has reached its capacity for data?

It never really reached it's 'Maximum' of data. It works as a scrolling buffer that looks at your most recent event history. So if you ride long enough, new data will eventually push old data out, but it never stops taking data in.

As far as when the 'buffer' is full and you're pushing the old out with the new, it's when Confidence reaches 100%.

Based on this, 4 hours is plenty sufficient. If fact, you can probably go significantly shorter if you pin point certain sections of trails or terrain types to tune on.

It may take some 'juggling' to get the 'average tune' your looking for, but you could tune to a rough and rocky trail and get a baseline for that. Then go tune on a smoother, flowy trail and find the baseline for that. From here you would just work to blend the two together until you're happy with how your bike handles all terrain types.

It is important to understand that the 'best' tune for all terrain is never going to be 'perfect' but instead the best compromise. You'll never find a tune that works best for all terrain types. In the suspension world you're always robbing Peter to pay Paul.
​

Does that answer your question?

Alex@Quarq

 

[ragetty]

question for Quarq Tech:

what does pushing the bike (back up the top of a rooty trail) do for a session? is that contributing 'bad' data, or merely keeping 'confidence' from attaining useful values?

and carrying the bike (up a mountain), shockwiz probably just goes to sleep, right?

thx ...

 

[Quarq Tech]

Hey ragetty,

No problem!

"what does pushing the bike (back up the top of a rooty trail) do for a session? is that contributing 'bad' data, or merely keeping 'confidence' from attaining useful values?"

It shouldn't do anything at all, positive or negative. In order for ShockWiz to capture any data it needs to see suspension movement. If it doesn't see pressure change it's no different than the bike not moving at all.

Unless the section of trail is REALLY short, chances are you'll have enough data at the bottom each time allowing you to treat each decent as it's own session.

Also remember that ShockWiz needs to see you pedal the bike. So a pedal up the fire road is a good thing.​

"...and carrying the bike (up a mountain), shockwiz probably just goes to sleep, right?"

More or less the same as above. Though ShockWiz will likely stay awake via the accelerometer.​

Alex@Quarq

 

[lucifuge]

Alex - I sent an email regarding my Shockwiz having massive issues with bluetooth connectivity. Was it received? (I got no email receipt if it received)

 

[ragetty]

It shouldn't do anything at all, positive or negative. In order for ShockWiz to capture any data it needs to see suspension movement. If it doesn't see pressure change it's no different than the bike not moving at all.

Thx for the reply, but you didn't answer the question for the case when the suspension IS moving marginally (pushing/bouncing the unloaded bike up over stones and roots) - specifically, is this generating 'bad' data and should be avoided (i.e. start new session at top), or will it just affect 'confidence' ... or is there something else we need to know?

Thx ...

 

[ragetty]

... and another question .-)

when i move away from the bike and my iphone looses the BT connection, the recommendations dissappear - should this be happening, or, in other words, why aren't the values 'sticky' for the last data transfer?

 

[petercarm]

Question for Quarq Tech

I have a Direct Mount Shockwiz which out of the box reports -792.3psi. I presume that is a DOA and I need to return it.

My other "normal" Shockwiz reports normal numbers.

Tried a firmware update and it is still the same.

thx

 

[Quarq Tech]

Question for Quarq Tech

I have a Direct Mount Shockwiz which out of the box reports -792.3psi. I presume that is a DOA and I need to return it.

My other "normal" Shockwiz reports normal numbers.

Tried a firmware update and it is still the same.

thx

Hey Peter,

Please contact Quarq Customer Service to resolve that.

https://www.quarq.com/contact-us/

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

raggetty

Thx for the reply, but you didn't answer the question for the case when the suspension IS moving marginally (pushing/bouncing the unloaded bike up over stones and roots) - specifically, is this generating 'bad' data and should be avoided (i.e. start new session at top), or will it just affect 'confidence' ... or is there something else we need to know?

My apologies for missing this. In a perfect world you would avoid it, but I wouldn't expect it to have much of an impact. It really depends on how much the suspension is moving while you hike.

Unless your smashing around the bike while hiking the small compressions of the suspension will at most trigger a false positive for pedaling, which is mainly associated with the Bobbing detection and LSC. I would also expect any results from this to average out very quickly once you start riding again.

You could easily test this. Include the hike in a session and then another without the hike, and see if there is any change in the results.

​

... and another question .-)

when i move away from the bike and my iphone looses the BT connection, the recommendations dissappear - should this be happening, or, in other words, why aren't the values 'sticky' for the last data transfer?

Yes this is normal. I am not sure of the technical reason. We do intend to implement some form of Save feature, but for now you must resort to screen shots.​

Alex@Quarq

 

[Quarq Tech]

Hey lucifage,

I did a quick sweep through the inbox and did not see it. I have sent you a private message to get this resolved.

Alex@Quarq

 

[boblike]

Hello all, wonder if we can get some more feedback from the Shockwiz owner out there. Want to buy one, but I read always same everywhere:

Put it on my shock and the setup was good.
Made the recommended adjustment and felt better.

But what about, change this good adjustment and Shockwiz recognised even smaller changes and recommended the correct countermeasure.

Can someone please help?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

 

[mantra]

Hello mpress,

Great question. There are two ways to handle this.

1) You either ignore the suggestions you don't have adjustments for and instead focus on getting those you do have control over right. This often corrects those you don't have control over.

2) You send your suspension back to the manufacturer or suspension specialist to have the stock tuned changed, if applicable.

As an FYI, the best way to start riding with ShockWiz is to set all your compression adjustments to full open or soft, and then go ride. This puts all the focus on the spring (Baseline Air Pressure and Air Spring Ramp). This gives ShockWiz a very unrestricted view of how the spring is working and what it's capable of. If after the ride you have Suggestions to change either Baseline Air Pressure or Ramp, make these first and retest to ensure they indicate 'OK' before adding any compression adjustments. I recommend checking out this article about Tuning Order found here.

If after following the correct tuning procedure, the adjustments you do not have control over do not move to "OK", you either continue to ignore as your suspension is probably performing very well at this point, or you can look at having the stock tune changed.

If after numerous Ride Sessions ShockWiz is always asking for softer HSC, you could have your HSC shim stack tuned softer (same goes for firmer if that's what it's asking for). This would need to be done by a professional which probably means sending it back to the manufacturer or specialty service center, but the upside is you have data to back up the need.

In the end, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if you have a yellow indicator for something you lack an adjuster for.

A config-urator has been considered for omitting and including adjustments, it remains to be seen whether or not we will provide this.

If you saw a negative travel percentage it means you marked Baseline Air pressure, and the actual pressure in the positive chamber dropped slightly. This most commonly occurs if the negative and positive chambers did not full equalize prior to marking the baseline pressure. Re-marking to re-zero that value out is the correct thing to do.

Alex@Quarq

Hey Alex,

first off all...I appreciate verry much what you are doing here!!! I´ve seldomly seen such a big company in this business, being that close to the customer! I hope SRAM appreciates your effort aswell and pays accordingly! If not...I would suggest to forward them a link to my post. Such great (and helpfull!!!) interaction with customers must be worth some dollars and you are doing great!

Second...I didn´t expect you going down the "factory tuning" route, thats why I didn´t mention this scenarion in my earlyer posts, but as you do....I consider this another strong argument for bringing back HSR. Seems like everybody wants to play with shims today

In other words...It just doesn´t make any sense to leave HSR out of the this. Why that is so... you said it yourself...even if there aren´t any external adjustment options, there are internal ones (in most cases at least). Further...I think it is common sense that a suitable rebound tune is far more important (and way more user specific, given various rider weights) than the hydraulic part of compression.
I would say...1. spring weight and curve 2. rebound and than, low speed compression. Highspeed compression isn´t that important if the spring curve is already set reasonably....

just saying...

 

[boblike]

Hello all, wonder if we can get some more feedback from the Shockwiz owner out there. Want to buy one, but I read always same everywhere:

Put it on my shock and the setup was good.
Made the recommended adjustment and felt better.

But what about, change this good adjustment and Shockwiz recognised even smaller changes and recommended the correct countermeasure.

Can someone please help?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

Nobody?
Sorry I am German, maybe my question is not clear?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

 

[mantra]

Nobody?
Sorry I am German, maybe my question is not clear?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

Hey, I must say that I indeed don´t really understand your question... I´m German aswell, so if you try it again in German, maybe I can help?!

 

[Ganderson]

Hey, I must say that I indeed don´t really understand your question... I´m German aswell, so if you try it again in German, maybe I can help?!

I think what he is saying is that all of the "reviews" so far are pretty vague as far as specifics, fine tuning performance, and real world comparisons to dialed feel-based tuning.

Seems that all of the pro websites that received the units were limited to a "first impressions" type of blurb (maybe by SRAM?)... hopefully legit reviews are incoming.

 

[boblike]

Let's try this one.

What happens if you change the Rebound by 2 or 3 clicks. Is Shockwiz recognising exactly this change and recommends to adjust the Rebound back? Same applies for the rest of the Setup. Is Shockwiz always precisely leading you back to the initially perfect settings?



Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

 

[Quarq Tech]

Let's try this one.

What happens if you change the Rebound by 2 or 3 clicks. Is Shockwiz recognising exactly this change and recommends to adjust the Rebound back? Same applies for the rest of the Setup. Is Shockwiz always precisely leading you back to the initially perfect settings?

I think we got it! Hopefully the below answers your question.

It's important to remember that there is no such thing as an ideal tune - unfortunately it does not exist and suspension tuning is always a compromise. A tune that works well on one part of your ride will not necessarily be optimal on a different portion. However, it is possible to get to a point that is a very good compromise between all the aspects we are considering. ShockWiz directs you to the point at which a good compromise is achieved, which we call the 'Window of Happiness'.

As the name suggests, the Window of Happiness has an acceptable range that we can be within. Typically, the range might be 1 or 2 clicks of damping wide and maybe 5% Baseline Air Pressure. The Window of Happiness also doesn't focus on just one aspect, such as having your sag at a particular percentage. Instead, ShockWiz takes a holistic approach and looks at the combination of all the tuning parameters available to us. ShockWiz tries to keep everything in balance so that no force is dominating over another, across all obstacles we encounter in a typical ride.

It's also important to remember that ShockWiz is merely Suggesting changes. It after achieving a high Shock Tuning Score, you are certainly within your bounds to experiment with adding or removing a click to any adjustment, or increase or decreasing baseline a 2-3 psi. Again, there is no perfect tune and there will always be a 'feel' component to tuning.

Alex@Quarq