[Cleared2land]

DtSwiss 240 EXP - engagement problem

 

[unrooted]

Would you recommend XT or even SLX hubs still? I just built up a Nukeproof Mega 290 alloy with Hunt enduro wide wheels, cushcore And DHF/DHR II DH tires for a summer of lift riding, so the bike weighs 28.5 lbs. I’d like to build a set of wheels that I can quickly swap out for pedally days, but I don’t want to spend DT 350 money if I don’t have to...I would use XM481 rims.

FYI: My typical loop includes a legit 8’+ drop and quite a few smaller jumps and drops. I weigh 200 lbs.

 

[boybiskit]

I am very interested in this thread because I have a new fh-m8110-b hub and am waiting for the rim and spokes to arrive so have time to read this thread and ponder.

If i spin the freehub slowly it has very distinct 'clicks'. About 100 in a rotation as noted ^^. If i spin it fast it goes 'zippy' and then silent.

My questions:

• does anyone know / is anyone tracking freehub part or serial nos? Mine is 200220002L 1N SC3. I'd love to know if this is the newer version or not.
• is anyone 3d printing or CNCing the legged spacer that seems to be the root of the issue? I'm thinking this may be a more permanent solution for people with problem hubs.

I will pull my hub apart to check for greasing. I'm excited about the prospect of silence when everyone else is riding loud hubs... and of having a light, strong and fast spinning wheelset that has not cost the Earth!

 

[hvmatt]

I've had nothing but trouble with the XT rear hub. Creaking followed by seizing and becoming a fixed wheel! Replacement and then the axle breaking! The axle replaced under warranty and then the freehub failing again and spinning freely with no engagement.The replacement freehub failed after two weeks becoming a fixed wheel again-I took it apart and a plastic spacer over the bearings had broken in two and a metal tab at the base of the freehub was bent. I'm off again to the shop to just demand my money back-it's quite plain that these hubs are not fit for purpose.I ride a lot and I'm quite concerned and can no longer trust Shimano hubs.The last thing I want is one of these failures to happen on a big jump /drop /landing etc. To be honest I bought it because it was cheaper than DT or anything else and it seems you really do get what you pay for!!!

 

[minisman]

I bought my FH M8110B and got it built up back in October 2019. I did a 24hr Race in November and the creaking started towards the end of the race. I then had an over seas holiday (just before covid) and barely rode the bike until Feb 2020. then I found the creaking got worse and worse, to be pretty much constant even with very low pedalling force.
I chased everything on the bike trying to find the noise, cranks, bottom brackets, spoke lacing, cassette. I decided to pull the hub off and was surprised to see no grease anywhere and shimano guidelines at the time said no grease except for the seals. So end of Feb 2020 I sent my wheel to shimano for a 4 week warranty claim. They told me nothing except that they replaced the freehub - which i translate to they didnt identify the issue.
About 2 months later creaking starts again. So I decided, screw shimano advice, I am going to put grease on every surface I think needs grease. I pulled the freehub off an identified 2 things. 1. the inner spring had been spinning, the hook had jumped out of its seat, both faces of the spring were really scratched from all that rotating. 2. the plastic slider was upside down (not sure if that was Shimano or me that did that) this might have been what caused the spring to jump out.
Anyway I didnt have shimano premium grease, I had a choice of marine bearing grease or my super slick suspension grease. I thought given the scenario the suspension grease would do the job.
So I have had more than 1 years since greasing it up with no problems at all, in fact I'd go so far as to see at this point I would highly reccomend this hub (once greased properly).
That was, until a few days ago where I got the other symptoms mentioned in this thread. I had the freehub lock up on me! I though it was a stick caught in derailleur. but it happened to me 3 or 4 times on the one short down hill and it threw my chain off every time. I realised it was an issue with the freehub not disengaging, so tried to continue the ride with out stopping pedalling or freewheeling, over the next 20- 30 mins of the ride it would randmomly lockup again and throw the chain off, particularly if i tried to manual or hop a log. I adjusted my riding a little so that I wasn't back pedalling and for the rest of the ride it stopped happening, even riding down a shocking down hill track full of chunk not a single issue... it was cold and a bit rainy, so I hoped that maybe it was a case of the grease needed warming up a bit???
I was still really p!$$ed off that i had a new issue with the hub, and that prompted me to search the net and read all 10 pages of this thread (plus a few linked threads)

So after reading this thread yesterday and downloading all the latest shimano documents, I decided it was time to strip it down last night and assess the damage, I was almost certain I was going to find mangled plastic teeth jammed in all sorts of places.
Upon tear down I was a bit disappointed, Nothing was damaged! my spring was still seated correctly, the plastic spacer had no damage at all.

The only thing I can say is maybe its the grease I was using? could it be that the colder ride meant the type grease was not letting parts release when cold? or that This grease needs replacing more than once/year for this type of use?

Anyway I am contacting shimano about it and going to use shimano grease. Hopefully they will send me a newer style black plastic spacer (mine is translucent yellow/white)

....
I saw a post about creaking in an 8110 hub and the guy said it was form the spring getting twisted, which he fixed and the creaking went away. .
....

From trying to analyse my hub issues this is exactly what causes the creaking noise. The inner spring binding and twisting, in my case the hook on the spring had jumped out of the seat, both the bottom and upper face of the spring are very scratched up now.

Pop goes the weasel. My xt rear microspline hub just binded up after 2 months. Worked fine then on the way home from a few hour ride the freehub locked up out of the blue, derailing the chain in the process. Fortunately it happened on a rolley strech of pavement, not a high speed section. I only had to carry the bike a mile or two before getting a ride the rest of the way home. The hub design is flawed, or the grade of parts are not up to the task. I took the hub apart and noticed that the plastic part, in the diagram "slider", had been chewed and spit out. Pieces of it went lodged in the axle/freehub preventing it from spinning. Other parts inside the hub may have failed as well.

I know the feeling!!! thankfully no broken parts for me... but hopefully regreasing stops this from happening again

new XT hub faulty
I forgot to write that the free hub started to catch up and lock the chain, nearly crashed 3 times ! Costing down hill, the chain suddenly fall !

That's what happened to me this week, pretty scary sensation to have everything jam up!!!. But after 1 year with no problems with this hub I'm hoping that using the Shimano Grease will solve this. I really hope shimano can confirm that this isnt frequently required maintenance. most other wheels I have only get checked every 3+ years when the bearings or cassette needs replacing.

 

[Cleared2land]

I'll need to put some time aside to read this.

 

[wschruba]

I'll need to put some time aside to read this.

I'll sum it up:

Shimano released the new versions of XT microspline hubs based on the XTR pattern. It continues the (solitary) issue that those hubs suffered from, namely creaking--particularly in low gears. The revised greasing recommendations help there, but it can't be completely removed unless you ignore the instructions to NOT grease the drive plates. Doing so can cause binding/locking, as people have noted above. Pulling the freehub apart to lubricate the drive plates can be done...but it makes it a regular maintenance item, since you have to clean it out exceedingly well to keep everything functioning properly; Because the plates are aluminum with a surface treatment, Shimano preferred leaving them dry, since they would wear quickly without prompt attention. Compare this to the original DT ratchet system [reminder: the ratchet system in the Shimano hubs is a DT/Shimano design], where they could be abused without significant damage for years.

They released it with a different formulation of plastic for the 'finger spacer', which was prone to breaking in combination with the lack of grease in the first runs of the hubs. When the fingers broke off, they could migrate INTO the drive plates, and cause issues with engagement/disengagement.

There are outliers of bad experience everywhere, but in no case that I've personally had run across my bench, has a hub failed without warning (whether or not the user is aware of that warning, well, that's a different story).

 

[547319]

I have a newer XT hub, after about 6 months of riding (a lot of wet riding) it started creaking and needed to be greased. We didn't grease the drive plates based on experience with another XT hub, and so far so good. Pulling them apart and greasing them is a regular maintenance item - like a fork rebuild. Which is silly when compared to most hubs that need almost no maintenance for years (i9, Hope, DT Swiss)

 

[jochribs]

My FH-MT901B hub has begun creaking. I had hoped that it wouldn't, foolishly hoping that it would somehow be different than the XT and XTR it resides between. I have yet to take it apart since I don't have the special seal tool or Shimano grease, but I'm thinking I'm just going to tear into it, clean it really well and put whatever TF I have in there. Hopefully that fingered spacer isn't pooched...it really shouldn't be, I don't have a ton of miles on this bike, been riding mostly gravel bike miles this summer.

It's just super disappointing and angering having to deal with this, and then spend MORE time hunting down tools and parts that Shimano should honestly be sending (free) to everyone that has one of these effing hubs. As it is, that seal tool is unavailable unless I order it from Taiwan. Screw that.

The warranty issues that I have had in this past year alone are out of effing control. With multiple companies. (Tires, forks, hubs...I'm waiting for my XT 12spd shifter to take a crap next.) Never in my 24 years of wrenching have I seen such utter BS. If we don't start holding these clowns accountable, it's only going to get worse. This isn't covid, it's bean-counting bullshit.

 

[A. Rider]

It's just super disappointing and angering having to deal with this, and then spend MORE time hunting down tools and parts that Shimano should honestly be sending (free) to everyone that has one of these effing hubs. As it is, that seal tool is unavailable unless I order it from Taiwan. Screw that.

You really don't need that seal tool. I'd get their premium grease and their seal grease though.

Shimano Dura-Ace Grease, 50G | Jenson USA

Shimano DuraAce Grease 50G Specifically formulated to keep DuraAce components running smoothly and increase their life. Can be used on any Shimano or nonShimano components that requires a waterproof grease. Features DuraAce grease is the same as used in Shimano DuraAce hubs...

www.jensonusa.com

Shimano SCYLENCE Grease 50g | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

 

[547319]

Good luck finding anyone at Shimano who cares. Shimano literally doesn't give a ****. Which is unfortunate because their 12spd is nice.

My experience is that sram is a much more personable company and had a slightly inferior product.

Shimano has a slightly superior product (12spd groupset) and far far far worse customer service (none).

 

[jochribs]

You really don't need that seal tool. I'd get their premium grease and their seal grease though.

Shimano Dura-Ace Grease, 50G | Jenson USA

Shimano DuraAce Grease 50G Specifically formulated to keep DuraAce components running smoothly and increase their life. Can be used on any Shimano or nonShimano components that requires a waterproof grease. Features DuraAce grease is the same as used in Shimano DuraAce hubs...

www.jensonusa.com

Shimano SCYLENCE Grease 50g | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

Thanks for that link. I started looking for the seal tool (without success) and just said screw it on the grease. But I agree, and would rather use their grease than shooting guesses at what else will work, or finding Motorex grease etc. I'm still pissed that I need to take time out of riding that bike while waiting for product to service a hub that shouldn't need to be even glanced at for YEARS let alone months.

Also agree on the seal tool. I've remove and reinstalled a pretty good sum of seals in my years without fubaring any of them. It would be good if whoever has one of them here could take some measurements and share that so we can figure out if we have anything laying around or make something suitable.

 

[jochribs]

Good luck finding anyone at Shimano who cares. Shimano literally doesn't give a ****. Which is unfortunate because their 12spd is nice.

My experience is that sram is a much more personable company and had a slightly inferior product.

Shimano has a slightly superior product (12spd groupset) and far far far worse customer service (none).

Agreed. I have always been a Shimano guy. I feel like the BS started with them when the brakes got 'wandery'. Just widespread problems with design that should have been caught before production, and then nipped in the bud early on, even nipped in the bud after slight design changes. But they just kept rolling with it. Now it's the shifters and these hubs.

 

[minisman]

Thanks for that link. I started looking for the seal tool (without success) and just said screw it on the grease. But I agree, and would rather use their grease than shooting guesses at what else will work, or finding Motorex grease etc. I'm still pissed that I need to take time out of riding that bike while waiting for product to service a hub that shouldn't need to be even glanced at for YEARS let alone months.

Also agree on the seal tool. I've remove and reinstalled a pretty good sum of seals in my years without fubaring any of them. It would be good if whoever has one of them here could take some measurements and share that so we can figure out if we have anything laying around or make something suitable.

As with my post above, I managed to get a whole year out of using suspension grease. infact it still hasnt creaked since then... but it got intermittent freehub lock-ups, thats why my post above.but I have ordered shimano grease and waiting for that for it to finish this current "service".
As for seal tool, its not like a traditional bearing seal or fork seal. its just a flat steel ring with rubber coating and sealing lip. At least 3 times I have put it together and just pressed the seal in with a very blunt old big flat screwdriver.

 

[A. Rider]

As for seal tool, its not like a traditional bearing seal or fork seal. its just a flat steel ring with rubber coating and sealing lip. At least 3 times I have put it together and just pressed the seal in with a very blunt old big flat screwdriver.

I just used the long flats of my thumbs to gently and evenly seat it in (if that makes any sense). Feeling it seat seems to help.

 

[minisman]

Update on my situation.
After 2 weeks of flicking emails back and forward with Shimano tech is Australia. I think they must have a new guy... He was no where near as useful.
Bases on the pictures I sent he lectured me saying I greased the inner parts. Which I didn't, but there was some greasy residue had worked its way through.
And he said the only thing to do is buy a whole hub and take the freehub of it because there are no spares available.
After him being so explicit that my hub is ruined because there was grease in the freehub I decided my only option was to strip the freehub and clean it.
This was reasonably easy, a few key bits to line up but not too bad (not warranting "do not disassemble" stickers)
So after completely cleaning it and reassembling dry, I greased all the other bits needing grease.... And what do you know it doesn't want to disengage very smoothly.
So I think like was suggested many pages ago, the "do not disassemble, do not lube" is not because it's meant to have no lube, it's because they don't want you maintaining it and getting it wrong.

So now I'm in the predicament of trying to guess what to lube the inside with....

 

[K2e2vin]

Has anyone with the updated(black) spacer have any issues?

 

[minisman]

Has anyone with the updated(black) spacer have any issues?

SHimano AUstralia wouldn't send me one, because they thought its my fault and they done have many spares. They told me to buy a new hub and take parts from it.
I've bought the new hub but haven't got around to swapping it over yet.

 

[jochribs]

Has anyone with the updated(black) spacer have any issues?

Yes. I have a hub with the updated spacer. It creaks. I took it apart and greased the splines with grease that I had and it stopped, but it also was completly silent, as in, Sylence. It also felt a little draggy, and slower to engage so I took it back apart and cleaned all that grease off. Put back together dry, like from factory. It's been more quite than new, but there was a faint ratcheting sound, which has been getting louder over the few rides I've done since cleaning it out. I have some grease from Shimano on the way, so I'm going to use that and see what happens.

My thought on why it got slower to engage and maybe why it was 'sylent' while ratcheting is due to the viscosity of the grease that I used. I thought that it was thin enough, and I used it very sparingly on only the splines and the fingered spacer, but I think it was sticky enough that it slowed the movement of that ring in its movement to engage. (If you haven't had one of these open yet, you'll see what I mean when you play around with the hub driver in your hands a bit and see how it works.)

The other area that I thought the creaking sound might be coming from might be the way the spring(s) push oh the backside of the driver. There's a black plastic isolator that goes on the center spring, but I wonder if the spring gets bound up while under high torque. Mine only makes noise in gears 3, 2 and1. I didn't notice any evidence of it getting torqued up and mangled, but I'll look more closely this time.

 

[jochribs]

SHimano AUstralia wouldn't send me one, because they thought its my fault and they done have many spares. They told me to buy a new hub and take parts from it.
I've bought the new hub but haven't got around to swapping it over yet.

That's unfortunate. What did you say to them? Had you opened it up at that point? I don't think that's right. They honestly should be sending us all the seal tool, but they are plumb out of the things. Shimano has some good folks inside, you just need to talk to the right person. The first guy I talked to had absolutely zero clue as to what hubs I had, didn't know they were even made, and then was squabbling with me about how many teeth were on cog #3 of my XTR cassette. (He was wrong)