Some solid maths there. Wel done.

If you get a chance I'd like to see how fast a Bosch cx performance line bike climbs your test hill. I'd guess sub 5 Mins.

The relay would be the hands down winner for me if it also had a charge port on the bike.

The big problem for me with mid power bikes is that the range isn't big enough and most of them you can't swap easily a battery out mid way through the day. So you are limited to maybe 3 hours.

But full power does suck over motor cut out when trying to pedal and pop big jumps. Also you give away the playfulness of mtbs when on the full fat.

 

Some solid maths there. Wel done.

If you get a chance I'd like to see how fast a Bosch cx performance line bike climbs your test hill. I'd guess sub 5 Mins.

The relay would be the hands down winner for me if it also had a charge port on the bike.

The big problem for me with mid power bikes is that the range isn't big enough and most of them you can't swap easily a battery out mid way through the day. So you are limited to maybe 3 hours.

But full power does suck over motor cut out when trying to pedal and pop big jumps. Also you give away the playfulness of mtbs when on the full fat.

Great comment my good man. And yes, the Bosch CX 4 with latest firmware was tested on the Pivot Shuttle AM recently. 4:43 is the time.

Here's the climb data including a couple full-powered emtbs

And you are so right about mid-power bikes and the range limitation. The power is actually ok now. The range is the limiting factor especially when riding with full-powered ebike friends. I made a video about that subject here:

 

I like your videos super entertaining good information. But I think you got something wrong on the transition relay if it takes you a couple minutes to remove the battery.

 

Good point. I'm taking into account positioning the bike, removing the battery, plugging in the charger and setting it somewhere safe, and reinstalling the battery. Basically, a couple of minutes more, all in, compared to flipping a cover and plugging in a charge wire.

 

I find it funny that a half turn finger operated latch on the door is not an easily removable battery. And for sure doesn’t take a few minutes to pop the battery out and put it on the charger. Something that makes sense for me is the fact that I can pull the battery out and charge it in my van while the bike is on the rack. It’s hard to charge the other bikes when you’re on a road trip in your van. Point being having a removable battery isn’t all bad and can be beneficial, especially if it’s cold outside during a road trip and your bicycles outside on a rack, don’t ask me how I know lol
of course I’m biased because when I do ride an E bike it is my transition relay. By the way, I wish somebody would test the PNW version. I think that’s the best version unless you live or it’s flat, it might not make as much sense if you ride flat stuff of course.
once again, thank you for the cool videos appreciate it

 

For sure, good comment. I was thinking maybe the Trek Fuel EXe removable battery where I had to unplug a wire under there after flipping the bike. Also thinking soup-to-nuts, reinstalling the battery too.

I really wish they just made the PNW version and just offered 6 price points for it. $5k to 11k!

 

I didn't cover the issue of removable battery in the video comparison. Some offer it, some don't.
Field Removable battery: Trek Fuel EXe, Transition Relay
Not removable: Orbea Rise, Heckler SL Pivot Shuttle SL, Levo SL.

The purpose for removing battery:

• storing/charging bike in extreme heat or cold, thus protecting the battery indoors
• making the bike lighter for lifting
• replacing the battery mid-ride for long rides
• battery dies and needs repair/service

Compromises of designing removable battery:

• they rattle or fall off
• downtube gets bigger with double casing and door or latch
• adds weight

If someone needs a removable battery, they have to have it and pursue the bikes with this feature. They need to understand and use the need for it. It's not a 'just in case' item since it does have compromises. I find that very few owners use it... maybe 10% in my circles and according to some manufacturers I've talked to.

 

Like I said, I might be biased, and how relevant this statement might be is probably about zero lol.
Last week I took a road trip out to spider Mountain DH Park, I took my We Are One arrival 170 with me and also my Relay PNW. I spent the first half-day on my arrival and then switched to my relay without the battery in it. Never went back to riding the arrival after running the relay PNW without its battery, two days of DH runs. it was just way too much fun. You can’t really tell it’s a E bike with the battery out.
Just one other benefit especially if you have one bike. I usually ride a full DH bike at parks but I’m currently building a new DH bike.
No I don’t work for Transition lol

 

Ditto with what plummet said. I would be looking at a contemporary mid-powered eMTB if it had greater battery capacity options, or field-swappable batteries. The less leeway the absence of the former gives, the more the latter is needed.

 

Always enjoy your reviews, Francis!

I too feel the need to defend the Relay a bit however:

1) Yah, they rattle. My rattles were coming from the cable entry ports and squirting gasket sealant in those parts around the cables totally silenced my Relay.
2) The removable battery really is quite the advantage and I'd need at least a 1.5-2 # weight reduction to go to a fixed battery at this point. I only R&R the battery like 1-2x per week so I don't mind the 60 seconds. I can use the bike for lift assist and have a lighter rig with the battery removed, and the Relay is my only big bike. But also, my garage is over 100' F all summer and has currently been in the 30s for days. Those situations aren't good for Lithium-Ion Batteries. I took my bike to work one day and charged my battery inside the cab on the way in. Throughout the day the inside of my truck became sub 30 degrees. When I went to go continue charging my battery, guess what, it had a protective mechanism and wouldn't accept a charge until the battery warmed up (I read on the ebike forum that this is what caused my issue, so assuming they are correct). You haven't experienced this being in SoCal, but I have here in TX and this could become a real issue for some people if your entire bike is too cold to charge.
3) Transition has already leaked the Y connector for the upcoming RE. That black rubber plug that is just below your water bottle holder, that's where the plug is going.
4) You didn't complain about this but the Relay just really needs a coil shock. It has wonderfully progressive geometry and suspension linkage, but I could never get my stock air shock to work right with the air shock. Just letting you know that the bike certainly deserves proper suspension. The adjustability, as you mentioned, really is quite the advantage imo for this bike. Hard hitting trail bike, or full on enduro bike, the choice is yours.
5) Best dropper insertion.
6) only bike with a bash guard and ya know, e-bikes need them way more than regular bikes imo.
7) Lastly the weight, even though you didn't complain about that aspect. The Relay frame weighs very similar as the others, but the weight creeps up based on affordable builds, but also the things that you are getting including: 1) the geo and intended use, 2) that long heavy dropper, 3) removable battery, 4) bash guard, 5) coil shock, F38, heavier tires on some models. I just bring this one up for myself because I'm weight sensitive but there are legitimate reasons this bike weighs a couple of pounds more than the others. My XL weighs 45#s with dual inserts, 1300/ 1400 gram tires, DH rated rear rim, 210mm dropper, & dual coil suspension. I think every one of these bikes would weigh a similar amount if speced the same.

Can you tell that I love that Relay cause I really do?

~ take care

 

Always enjoy your reviews, Francis!

I too feel the need to defend the Relay a bit however:

1) Yah, they rattle. My rattles were coming from the cable entry ports and squirting gasket sealant in those parts around the cables totally silenced my Relay.
2) The removable battery really is quite the advantage and I'd need at least a 1.5-2 # weight reduction to go to a fixed battery at this point. I only R&R the battery like 1-2x per week so I don't mind the 60 seconds. I can use the bike for lift assist and have a lighter rig with the battery removed, and the Relay is my only big bike. But also, my garage is over 100' F all summer and has currently been in the 30s for days. Those situations aren't good for Lithium-Ion Batteries. I took my bike to work one day and charged my battery inside the cab on the way in. Throughout the day the inside of my truck became sub 30 degrees. When I went to go continue charging my battery, guess what, it had a protective mechanism and wouldn't accept a charge until the battery warmed up (I read on the ebike forum that this is what caused my issue, so assuming they are correct). You haven't experienced this being in SoCal, but I have here in TX and this could become a real issue for some people if your entire bike is too cold to charge.
3) Transition has already leaked the Y connector for the upcoming RE. That black rubber plug that is just below your water bottle holder, that's where the plug is going.
4) You didn't complain about this but the Relay just really needs a coil shock. It has wonderfully progressive geometry and suspension linkage, but I could never get my stock air shock to work right with the air shock. Just letting you know that the bike certainly deserves proper suspension. The adjustability, as you mentioned, really is quite the advantage imo for this bike. Hard hitting trail bike, or full on enduro bike, the choice is yours.
5) Best dropper insertion.
6) only bike with a bash guard and ya know, e-bikes need them way more than regular bikes imo.
7) Lastly the weight, even though you didn't complain about that aspect. The Relay frame weighs very similar as the others, but the weight creeps up based on affordable builds, but also the things that you are getting including: 1) the geo and intended use, 2) that long heavy dropper, 3) removable battery, 4) bash guard, 5) coil shock, F38, heavier tires on some models. I just bring this one up for myself because I'm weight sensitive but there are legitimate reasons this bike weighs a couple of pounds more than the others. My XL weighs 45#s with dual inserts, 1300/ 1400 gram tires, DH rated rear rim, 210mm dropper, & dual coil suspension. I think every one of these bikes would weigh a similar amount if speced the same.

Can you tell that I love that Relay cause I really do?

~ take care

Very helpful my good man. I'm gonna get the Relay again for some more extensive, rowdy testing and really get that beast in its habitat. So this is very helpful!!!

 

The gap between the FAUZA bikes to me is interesting

Understanding that the PIVOT has less travel and could arguably be more of an efficient pedaler, 34 secs or roughly 5% is a monumental difference

I may have missed it but is it that much lighter? and is it rolling on XC vs DH tires?

 

Yeah, that was a big gap, so I redid the test about 5x on the Shuttle SL. The speed factors were:

• new Fazua firmware and motor that had a later build number. The Shuttle SL test was done 2-4 months after the Heckler SL and Relay test.
• Shuttle SL lighter by 3 lbs.
• Shuttle SL had very light Reynolds carbon wheels, Rotor cranks.
• Shuttle SL had a Dissector rear tire. Other bikes had Minion DHRs.

 

The Pivot is a full 29er, is about 4# 's lighter, has less rotating weight, more efficient suspension and faster rolling tires.

 

Francis, would you consider a modular battery bike like Giant Trance Elite+? Best of both world.

Full fat power, but light emtb category. I am intrigue by the concept, and surprised only Rotwild in Europe is doing this same concept like Giant.

 

They wouldn't send me a bike even after months of waiting and I have personal contacts there. I'm hearing these bikes are measurably heavier than claims. I'll find one and test it.

 

I thought about light e bike. The issue with battery age degradation made it a simple decision. Start with a small battery and as the battery gets older, it gets smaller(less powerful). Seems like you will be selling them every couple of years for a lot less than you paid for it because by them every one will know the battery is only good for half a dozen miles.

 

Everyone has a different situation for sure. On my longest most greedy with the power rides the most I've ever used on my Relay is 83%. Most of the time it's closer to 55% of the battery. I'm sort of over Turbo mode unless it's a road climb and have recently decided to just keep the bike in the middle mode.

The problem with the FF's is they don't feel so much like bikes. The Q factors are oddly wide, the power abrupt. The weight is really enough to notice in all circumstances, even too heavy for many women to load up. Just too much for my tastes. However I'm a very active rider leaving the ground, preferably very often.

With a removable battery, and me only riding 1-2x per week, I don't expect battery degradation to be much of a thing.

But also, why would you rule out an entire bike because a $700 part (the battery) might be worn a bit? It can be replaced. FF e-bikes would have the same issue anyways but with a more expensive to replace battery. Furthermore, I expect a new drop in factory battery to be available with possibly improved technology and density, maybe in 4 years.

Right now, I have tires mounted with solid grip, but my gosh are they horrible to pedal and weigh a lot. So, I have something else on the shelf to test when these wear out and I expect the lighter slightly better rolling tires to improve battery life notably. When I try and pedal with the motor off, it's just insane how poorly this set up is pedaling right now.

 

I wish the bikes with quick change battery’s like the Relay offered different sized battery’s. I’d like a two pound battery with less reserve , would be awesome for short jump trail days. I rarely use all my battery and only even get close on big days.

 

I imagined the same but with a storage area (like a SWAT) in front of the now shortened battery just under the battery cover.

That said, I'd only buy one if battery technology advanced and I could reduce weight and keep at least 400 W.

 

Just jumping in to defend the honor of my Scott Lumen. I know Americans mostly just don’t get it, but it is a true light weight trail ebike. It isn’t one bike to do it all, but none of them really are. If I could only have one, it would be the Pivot SL, but I don’t need to. I have a Rail 9.8 latest generation. So chop and chunk are for that bike. It’s a very capable powered couch. Love it, but not everyday and everywhere. The Scott, on the other hand, weighs 36 pounds with pedals. I bought the low level model and upgraded. I mostly had some parts from past builds. I did spring to swap the stock 130 34 to a 140 Grip2 34. It descends really well. For a second light weight ebike that you want to hammer and pedal it is hard to argue with. The twin lock makes it a responsive fast climber. The range is okay because it’s not a spin on turbo kind of ebike. It feels like a real trail bike, only with a magic adjustable slog/suffer button. Take the edge off where it matters, but keep the responsive climbing, sharp handling, and pop. Need a bigger battery? How about a lighter more efficient ebike instead? The Lumen has been great. I have a down country bike (Spur) and an enduro bike (Altitude). It made sense to me to do a similar thing with different ebikes. No regrets. Throwing it out there.

 

Right on. I appreciate your first-hand experience and comments very much. Bikes like the Scott Lumen will speak to some people and deliver a compelling solution. Not many though and more of a niche. And usually very expensive.

How is the pedaling when the motor is off? I find that to be a TQ Motor problem as i can feel the drag.

I've had a 33 lb. Gen2 Levo SL so I'm familiar with the category. I even went nutz on it and turned it into a sub-30 lb bike

 

Such a decent report and test.

I'd definitely like to see how the bikes compare for range at the mid level as this is, at least for me and my SL riding friends, where the majority of riding is done.

Battery tech definitely needs to advance and the Trek needs to see an update to power, torque and efficiency to stay competitive.

Slowest SL with the least efficiency...
It rides awesome though!

 

Such a decent report and test.

I'd definitely like to see how the bikes compare for range at the mid level as this is, at least for me and my SL riding friends, where the majority of riding is done.

In a non-scientific setup of multiple rides, my Orbea Rise with the 500w uses slightly less of it's battery than my mates 625w Trek Rail 9. If he finishes a ride with 20% then i've got 25% left.. As i say, it's not science, just outside riding.
IMO the Rise rides way way nicer than the Rail as it's not steam-rollering the trails too

 

+1 on the relay, other that what others already said...

• You can see the Relay extender frame insert below the bottle cage. The connector (which takes the cable and plug that goes there) is.. lose in the frame, at least was in mine.
• Confirming the rattle is an easy fix and does NOT come from the battery or mount. its the cables around it and the battery door. Absolutely a con on an expensive bike but thanksfully fixable.
• Update the motor fw to latest (009), its super easy and makes a big difference, not so much in term of climb speed (it may?) but pickup at low speed and such things are much better. My only complain is the walk mode which is terrible and I hope fazua fixes - same issue on all fazua ride 60s
• You can now get the 430HW battery separately for 736USD, which I did. It's much better than the extender in my eyes. The extender means no water bottle and all you get is a longer single ride but a significantly heavier bike too... and I find that the 430WH already accommodates quite a long ride if you dont stay on turbo. However, with 2x430 you can lap things and swap battery and lap again! 2x430 gives me longer range than my friend's full power ebikes (except the one that swap his 600MW internal battery - he hacked up his frame with quick release screws so it only takes him about 5min.. vs my 30s haha)

The only bike that compares to this is the Kenevo SL 2 in my eyes (not the Levo SL 2), which I could test in the EU. Its as you'd expect though: a Kenevo SL 1 with a better motor. Even the Heckler SL is not exactly as capable.

 

Very, very cool share. Thank you. I'll spend time on the Transition Relay again, hopefully a new PNW so this is very helpful!!!

Fazua has definitely improved their motor. New firmware, new hardware and new ring controller.

 

My relay is very quiet just had to zip tie a few wires. I can confirm it isn’t the battery making noise. Same sounds with or without the battery installed.

 

Would be fun to: do the 1) Fazua software update on the Relay then 2) swap the Pivot's drivetrain to the Relay, 3) then measure total weight and climbing time again of the Relay.
That would allow us to seperate some things that contribute to that climbing time.
I've done this same test swapping my Spur drivetrain to my SJEVO and found 80% of the time difference to be in the drivetrain parts selection. That said I didn't have pedals that measured input watts.

 

Would be fun to: do the 1) Fazua software update on the Relay then 2) swap the Pivot's drivetrain to the Relay, 3) then measure total weight and climbing time again of the Relay.
That would allow us to seperate some things that contribute to that climbing time.
I've done this same test swapping my Spur drivetrain to my SJEVO and found 80% of the time difference to be in the drivetrain parts selection. That said I didn't have pedals that measured input watts.

Yeah!!!! Fazua definitely updated their hardware and firmware. Pivot only sent me the Shuttle SL only after the new Fazua arrived. I think they were aware of the weaknesses and the fixes.

 

I wonder if I could save any real weight moving to the Rotor cranks on my Relay? Real weight would be anything over 100 grams, I guess.

 

I plan on the 5dev 160mm cranks with an e13 sprocket carrier and an aluminum sprocket for mine. I’m not a fan of the Praxis and Fazua drivetrain stuff. My bike is currently 43lb ready to ride PNW 170mm with heavy tires and a coil.

 

Good review as always. Were you able to dial in the suspension and contact points to your liking? Were they all speced similarly? There is so much overlap with certain models- I think people need to pick the one they think looks the coolest, appropriate for their terrain and the price they are willing to pay.As for light/mid powered bikes, I think they are a miss or at least the technology isn't quite there yet. I feel you need a lot of time at your disposal or a massive w/kg to take advantage of the weight savings. I started to MTB a few months ago and already ditched my non ebike for an ebike. If I need base or anaerobic work- I'll hop on my road bike and stare at my 3 sec power for hours.... For now I just want to practice going downhill and attempting features so give me a full fat. Photo below was the first time I almost killed the battery and I still had energy left in the tank. Time to start saving for a second battery...

 

What's up, man? Are you local to the Bay Area? You sound like a new bike addict who is going all in! You'll totally get along with my crews.

Yes, all the bikes are set up for me in terms of reach, contact points, and suspension adjustment. 90% of the bikes I get for review are very high-end (unfortunately) since manufacturers want to put their 'best foot forward,' even though the high-end bikes have limited reach. I get to get to keep them for 3 months typically.

Sucks cause even when I want to buy the used review bike at a good discount, i still can't afford it.

 

Right on. I appreciate your first-hand experience and comments very much. Bikes like the Scott Lumen will speak to some people and deliver a compelling solution. Not many though and more of a niche. And usually very expensive.

How is the pedaling when the motor is off? I find that to be a TQ Motor problem as i can feel the drag.

I've had a 33 lb. Gen2 Levo SL so I'm familiar with the category. I even went nutz on it and turned it into a sub-30 lb bike

I watched that video. I watch a lot of your stuff. You do great work! You seem like a genuinely lovely person. The TQ does have some drag. Less if you turn the bike off. There is some magnetic resistance when it is on, even if the power setting is off. The Lumen was the cheaper alternative for me. I found an entry level one (still nice spec) on a decent sale and upgraded to ENVE bar and stem, XTR cassette and chain, the factory 34, and some trail carbon wheels I already had. I’m in it less than 8K after upgrades. Solid build. It is still cheaper all in than the Trek Fuel EX-e XT build. Same battery. I was interested in the Trek at first, but four pounds is four pounds. I’d rather have the significantly better climbing undulating trail liveliness, and more than good enough descending than the bigger heavier bike with only 10mm more travel. I live in Utah. The bike rips desert and mountains. To each their own. Keep the content coming!

 

Right on. You've done well with your choices.

I always say... buy the cheaper model and upgrade or use the cool parts in the garage! The motor/electronics/frame are usually the same anyway. And when it comes time to sell the bike and upgrade, it is WAY EASIER to sell a $5k used bike rather than $15k. Especially ebikes!

 

Thank You Francis for a great review.

I own the Turbo Levo SL2 and awaits a "higher" watt range extender with at least 240 W for longer trips. I use it a semi-analoge and it is great but range is not 2024 standards. They could and should fix this.

For my enduro riding I have the Orbea Wild M10 2023 that is more or less same as Pivot Shuttle AM. Think its perfect for all mountain.

 

I think the removeable battery thing is a must on these SL small battery bikes. So many weekends last summer I was swapping battery on my fuel exe at lunch time so I could ride for another 3-4 hours. It's perfect for those places where you can place your battery at the bottom of the mountain and when you are having a break during runs you can make the swap. Less perfect for all day epics where you cover a lot of ground. That's when you need that big battery. I don't do those rides though, so for me it's much nicer to have a light bike since there are no downsides.

 

Great coverage of why a Mid range E-bike is bought. Orbea is my personal brand and the price point is amazing compared to the others in this range. I agree on the dealer support. It is a very nice handling bike. I might need to look hard at the Santa Cruz for the next upgrade.

 

2023 was a busy year with many mid-powered emtb introductions. We've done many individual reviews and videos on these bikes so we've taken this opportunity to round up all these bikes and compare them to each other. The bikes we have for this comparison are:

• Trek Fuel EXe
• Specialized Levo SL (gen 2)
• Santa Cruz Heckler SL
• Transition Relay
• Orbea Rise
• Pivot Shuttle SL

We've broken up the video comparison into two parts, where we tackle the climbing, speed, power, noise, and range of each bike.

In the second part of the video, we go beyond the assisted living prowess of each bike and analyze them in the following areas:

• Descending ability - handling, cornering, jumping, technical terrain
• Appearance and stealth - integration of motor/battery and noise levels
• Extender battery availability, controls, and app
• Dealer support, sizing, entry price range

Please comment on the video or this article and share your thoughts with us. Do you own a full-powered ebike or a mid-powered one? We'll answer any questions to the best of our ability.

Bought this Gen 2 . Had and loved the Gen 1. Hate the mullet. Switched to 29, added fox fork and electronic transmission (xx1). Love these videos my filipino brother!! Thanks

 

Mabuhay! Very cool to hear your experience and the at new Levo SL is the king of versatility.

 

I just read this whole string and watched videos. This is a great bunch of information. I’m really here to see if the Fazua is improved over old reports full of negativity. It sounds like it is I improved. I’m eager to try a mid powered bike for jump trails and the like. I just ordered the YT Decoy SN to supplement my HD6 and Oso. That new YT has the Fazua. Hope it’s great and look forward to Francis reviewing it.