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They want nothing to do with that because it only cheapens their brand . Schwinn was once known for making quality bikes but the moment they sold out to MalWart they immediately became known as junk.
Well, Schwinns actually became junk, because the only thing that stayed the same was the brand name. The manufacturer just started slapping Schwinn logos on box store bikes.

Mongoose has actually tried to straddle the line between box store bikes and quality bikes. They've been far more successful with their box store bikes than their better ones. IIRC, some shops tried keeping Mongoose for awhile. I suspect what happened were customers walking into the shop and asking why they would spend $1,000 (or whatever it was) on a Mongoose there when they "could buy the same thing" at Walmart for $100. That's a question I fielded OFTEN when working in bike shops. Forget that they weren't actually the same thing. Shops have tried to actually carry different product lines than the box stores to avoid these issues altogether. If shops actually did carry the exact same bikes as box stores, they'd wind up costing more because of the extra attention that small shops put into assembly as well as sending back the ones that are crooked and poorly made.
 
The last shop where I worked that wouldn't touch these "built-to-fail" bikes, that decision had nothing to do with this. The problem was that it winds up costing as much, if not more, in actual shop hours to do a repair on bikes the shop sold vs. cheap BSOs. And because BSOs weren't manufactured well to begin with, with poor tolerances, it simply wasn't possible to get them working to the same standard. So, same cost for subpar results, and the shop doesn't cover its costs because it can't justify actually charging more for labor on a cheap bike? Even if a shop is willing to do this work, a lot of customers are unwilling to pay it because they can get a whole new one for less than the cost of the repairs. Even for fairly simple stuff, it doesn't take much for parts + labor to exceed the replacement cost of the whole bike, and the "repaired" one will still have other problems.

We work on our fair share of BSO's and have managed a balance between getting them running reasonably well and earning a fair profit. Surprisingly people seem ok with paying nearly as much on repair as they did on the purchase and many are return customers.
 
This thread tells me that buying used bikes is the better way to save money and get something decent. I understand wanting a nice, shiny new bike, but right now, with the starting price for a decent bike in the $500 neighborhood, telling someone "It's a better value than twenty years ago" really isn't going to work because many people still don't make enough for $500 to be feasible when that amount of money would put a lot of groceries on the table.

I get the reasons for pushing the envelope WRT bike design, but how many actually need a sub-5Kg bike?
 
We work on our fair share of BSO's and have managed a balance between getting them running reasonably well and earning a fair profit. Surprisingly people seem ok with paying nearly as much on repair as they did on the purchase and many are return customers.
Maybe people's attitudes are different where you live than where I was working, but it was a major problem. I only worked in one shop that refused to work on box store bikes, and they were far too busy to begin with. Even in '05, the service backlog would get over a month in the summertime. I suspect there was an element of "we make less money on these cheap bikes and we have more than enough business in other bikes to keep us open anyway" sort of a thing.

At shops where I worked that did service box store bikes, I remember multiple incidents where someone brought in some old, clapped out POS that would cost twice as much to repair as to replace, and the customers started actually crying. Lots of bikes that lived in barns or garages untouched for decades (or less, for BSOs) that people expected new tires and a new chain would get them back up and running. But which actually needed a full overhaul plus a pile of parts because so many parts were seized up, corroded, or crumbling. We'd funnel a steady stream of folks to the local bike co-op.
 
Are you replacing crap components with 'something a bit better'?
when dealing with BSOs, that's generally the only option. You can't actually get components of the same quality level as OEM from any of the distributors that bike shops usually use.

The ones that cracked me up were the people trying to "restore" their walmart bike and were adamant that they'd get exact OEM replacements, as though somehow that'd make their bike better or worth more for resale?
 
Mongoose and Diamondback put out crap bikes. Or for pure mountain biking they were crap.

At the end of the day most people are not going to fork out over $200 for a bike unless they are upper middle class or are enthusiasts. How many of us owed a bike which was worth more than our car? The value is not there no matter how legitimate our argument is. It is because most Americans can not legitimately justify such a purchase economically. Considering the limited use these bikes have, it’s a sound decision. Now if someone takes it off road repeatedly and survives[emoji6], that person will find a way to continue biking. When I was in school the LBS employees would groan when I would bring in my low spec Rockhopper. I was terrible. I would penny pinch to no end. I would also pump them for repair info so I could do it myself. Now I’m the guy that I saw one day in the shop eying a very expensive road bike. He commented that back in the day he had the legs to ride that bike the way it was meant to but not the cash. Now he had the cash. He bought the bike. I’m that guy now. Except I never had the legs…….


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This thread tells me that buying used bikes is the better way to save money and get something decent. I understand wanting a nice, shiny new bike, but right now, with the starting price for a decent bike in the $500 neighborhood, telling someone "It's a better value than twenty years ago" really isn't going to work because many people still don't make enough for $500 to be feasible when that amount of money would put a lot of groceries on the table.

I get the reasons for pushing the envelope WRT bike design, but how many actually need a sub-5Kg bike?
Oh I always go looking for used before new since it is the best bang for the buck if you are willing to do some wrenching on the bike. Over the years I have all the tools to do that.
 
First thing to consider is what is failing and why?

I highly doubt the frame is cracking or the cranks and control parts are failing.

So what is failing?

Another issue is supply chain shortages causing prices to go up & the standard 6 speed freewheel beginning obsolete and requiring an entirely new rear wheel....

This comes down to doing research, on the consumers part. But in this case the retailer is being blamed... Does that mean coca cola or a fast food chain fault if you get fat?

Or Amazon is at fault for selling some crappy electronics?

People like sugar, fat and shiny bikes even if it's not good for them.
 
In response to the questions earlier in this thread wondering how many people quit riding because they had a cheap bike, the answer is probably none. They gave up riding because it was more effort than they wanted to invest, the physical risks outweighed the rewards, and their initial fitness level was too poor to continue and they didn't care to improve. Just like in golf, beginners don't quit because the clubs don't hit the ball correctly. It's not the equipment.

As was pointed out correctly earlier, commuters on cheap Walmart bikes are commuting on those bikes because that's all they can afford or all anyone had to give them. They aren't commuting on bikes to save the planet. They're commuting on bikes because their car crapped out and they can't afford to repair it or they lost their license and have to have a cheap way to get to a job or store.


Schwinn, GT, Mongoose and DB didn't sell out to Walmart. Schwinn went belly-up before ever going to Walmart. The Schwinn family started Waterford Bikes (Paramounts),a group of investors bought what was left of the bike company and started the Homegrown phase before going belly-up themselves and then sold out to Dorel which then marketed the bikes through Pacific to Walmart and other Big Box retailers. Same with GT, Mongoose and DB. Their founders sold the companies to investors at a hefty profit and those investors marketed to Walmart.

I've actually got a Mongoose that I bought at Walmart in '11. It's a 29er (Deception) that was completely upgradeable to "modern standards" and "LBS" components. I've still got it and only the frame is original. It didn't persuade me to quit mountain biking. And, yes, just like other enthusiasts I've bought newer and far more expensive "real" bikes since that original purchase. And non-cycling friends and family are shocked at the money those bikes cost.
 
Ironically, those who are the first to complain about consumerism and capitalism luxuriate in the products that are a result of them, living better than kings from only a hundred years ago. iPhone? Check. Flat screen TV? Check. Air conditioning? Check. Tesla? Check, or at least aspirational. So. much. irony.
Sort of like the same people that complain about production constantly moving overseas are the same ones who are wandering the aisles of Walmart and buying multiples of the thing they need instead of a single one produced in North America? Or the people who constantly rail about the evils of socialism or communism but cheer on the imposition of tariffs which artificially influence the free market by taking choice away from the populace?

It's almost like most people alter their perception of the world around them to make them feel like they are right.
 
First thing to consider is what is failing and why?

I highly doubt the frame is cracking or the cranks and control parts are failing.
Everything is fair game, honestly. Plastic brake levers go pretty quickly. Pot metal derailleurs can't take much of a bump before they lose integrity. I've seen plenty of failed clamps (usually stem/bar interface). And while it usually takes more for the frame to go (usually outright abuse, because the bike is viewed as a toy and not a transportation tool that one should care for), I've seen them rust through and fail, also. Usually with the frame, the problem is that it's just not welded straight. Very low QC. The wheels don't line up together. Or the rear end is so wonky that it's impossible for the shifting to actually work right. And you don't figure that out until you've fiddled with adjusting the drivetrain for awhile, when you can't get it to shift right. It gets worse if the owner has "upgraded" the drivetrain at some point, because the more cogs you put in the rear and the more precise the function of the components, the more glaring it becomes that the frame is the problem.

So what is failing?

Another issue is supply chain shortages causing prices to go up & the standard 6 speed freewheel beginning obsolete and requiring an entirely new rear wheel....

This comes down to doing research, on the consumers part. But in this case the retailer is being blamed... Does that mean coca cola or a fast food chain fault if you get fat?

Or Amazon is at fault for selling some crappy electronics?

People like sugar, fat and shiny bikes even if it's not good for them.
It comes to research, does it? How much research do you expect people to invest for a $100 bike? A big retailer like Walmart can actually (and often does) dictate to manufacturers and suppliers what they want. If they have a problem with a product, then they can demand improvements. They're big enough of a seller that they can demand a modicum of quality and serviceability without blowing up the costs. They have more power over the products that come from the overseas factories from multinational corporations than most. If consumers demand improvements (which is exactly what this petition is), then Walmart can exert some of its purchasing power to make some of these things happen.

There is a greater push for manufacturers to account for what happens to their products after they're sold. Right now, this "cradle to grave" is only legally applied to hazardous waste. But the growing problem of plastic waste has people thinking about applying it to other things that form waste, especially plastic production. Below a certain quality level, bicycles are treated as disposable. Some make it to metal recyclers, but a lot of them don't. They're tossed in dumpsters to go to landfills. They're left to rot as litter. The retailer is one link in this chain, and they do have some control over the products that they sell. If they're small, they don't have much. They can only buy what's available (and have little to no power to convince the manufacturer to change that), and realistically their reach to convince customers to buy this thing instead of that other thing is much smaller, so it's much more difficult for them to push for larger changes that would benefit their customers and society as a whole. Larger retailers and larger corporations can do more (and should).

Cheap sugar and cheap fast food are definitely other challenges that aren't too dissimilar. Cheap sugar is honestly the bigger problem. Companies like coca-cola can make changes, and they are, because consumers are making demands. They're listening to those, though the changes occur slowly. But the deeper problem is the source of all that cheap sugar, much like the root of the problem with built-to-fail bikes lies with the manufacturers.

Some of them use standards so old that they're the only ones using them anymore. Ashtabula cranks, for example. But I've seen some really weird bb standards on BSOs where you don't even know where to find a replacement when you need one. Ancient or otherwise strange hub spacing standards make it harder to find replacement wheels/hubs. Part of the problem is that the manufacturer/suppliers make it difficult or even impossible to obtain the necessary parts to service/maintain these bikes. This is just one reason why it can cost a shop more to work on these bikes than on the usual stuff they see. They spend more time hunting for replacements for a part with a weird standard or dimension.
 
Mongoose and Diamondback put out crap bikes. Or for pure mountain biking they were crap.

At the end of the day most people are not going to fork out over $200 for a bike unless they are upper middle class or are enthusiasts. How many of us owed a bike which was worth more than our car? The value is not there no matter how legitimate our argument is. It is because most Americans can not legitimately justify such a purchase economically. Considering the limited use these bikes have, it’s a sound decision. Now if someone takes it off road repeatedly and survives[emoji6], that person will find a way to continue biking. When I was in school the LBS employees would groan when I would bring in my low spec Rockhopper. I was terrible. I would penny pinch to no end. I would also pump them for repair info so I could do it myself. Now I’m the guy that I saw one day in the shop eying a very expensive road bike. He commented that back in the day he had the legs to ride that bike the way it was meant to but not the cash. Now he had the cash. He bought the bike. I’m that guy now. Except I never had the legs…….


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Both Mongoose and DB had titanium frames from Sandvik, The 95 DB Axis TT Pro was fully polished and is one of the sexiest Ti frames I've seen.
Preview of gallery image.
 
Intense recently put out the 951 series of affordable full suspension that they sold at Costco, and I haven’t heard anyone get uppity about the company because of it. I really think the problems with Mongoose and Schwinn is that their quality went way downhill.
 
Exactly. Most people who point out problems associated with capitalism are not demonizing the entire concept of capitalism.
Evidently you have not spent much time in the pity party that is Reddit, where everyone uses their $1000 phone to blame their loserhood on capitalism...and boomers.
 
Intense recently put out the 951 series of affordable full suspension that they sold at Costco, and I haven’t heard anyone get uppity about the company because of it. I really think the problems with Mongoose and Schwinn is that their quality went way downhill.
Cannondale sold bikes at Costco. I bought my son a M500 from there because no LBS could get a 14" bike and really couldn't be bothered to.
 
Intense recently put out the 951 series of affordable full suspension that they sold at Costco, and I haven’t heard anyone get uppity about the company because of it. I really think the problems with Mongoose and Schwinn is that their quality went way downhill.
There is a world of difference between Costco and Walmart. A lot of the people with Costco memberships would never set foot in a Walmart.
 
There is a world of difference between Costco and Walmart. A lot of the people with Costco memberships would never set foot in a Walmart.
Not sure what kind of high falutin people you hang out with, but I know a lot of people who shop at both Costco and Walmart.

That’s besides the point anyways. The point is that companies can make budget builds and sell them through big box stores without damaging their reputation, as long as they’re not complete trash.
 
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