[Dougal]

TA conventional shock doesn't know where it is in it's travel, if it's half way through it's travel and hits a square edged bump, bang, it will bottom out. With SPV it knows where it is in it's travel and snaps shut quickly allowing more control and preventing bottoming.

A shim stack shock will only bottom out with a bang in the above scenario if it has been setup by an idiot. It's true that they don't act differently throughout the stroke, but that's a good thing. I like a shock that still sucks up bumps when it's preloaded in a corner, not a shock that becomes extremely harsh because it's internal pressure is close to bursting.

A shim stack shock is velocity sensitive. The damping is tuned to follow a curve providing the right mix of low speed damping, the right amount of high speed damping and whatever transition you like between the two. SPV cannot do this, it's simply a pneumatic valve which only sees the internal pressure trying to close it.

SPV has supposedly been around for 20 years (depending on who you listen to). In that time no other high performance industry has found anything which can compete with a well tuned shim stack damper.

 

[keen]

A shim stack shock will only bottom out with a bang in the above scenario if it has been setup by an idiot. It's true that they don't act differently throughout the stroke, but that's a good thing. I like a shock that still sucks up bumps when it's preloaded in a corner, not a shock that becomes extremely harsh because it's internal pressure is close to bursting.

A shim stack shock is velocity sensitive. The damping is tuned to follow a curve providing the right mix of low speed damping, the right amount of high speed damping and whatever transition you like between the two. SPV cannot do this, it's simply a pneumatic valve which only sees the internal pressure trying to close it.

SPV has supposedly been around for 20 years (depending on who you listen to). In that time no other high performance industry has found anything which can compete with a well tuned shim stack damper.

Seems like the majority of posts concerning Manitou's SPV relate to the Minute series fork - any performance complaints w/ the Firefly? Under MTBR's product reviews the Firefly has many positive reviews none such that the minute receives as in these posts. Are Firefly's being ridden differently? I have an 05' Flick w/ the TPC dampner - always wondered if I am missing something not having SPV ?

 

[Jm.]

Seems like the majority of posts concerning Manitou's SPV relate to the Minute series fork - any performance complaints w/ the Firefly? Under MTBR's product reviews the Firefly has many positive reviews none such that the minute receives as in these posts. Are Firefly's being ridden differently? I have an 05' Flick w/ the TPC dampner - always wondered if I am missing something not having SPV ?

God no. The TPC+ damper is much more sensitive and all around better performing than the SPV.

Many of the SPV sherman forks (04s obviously) have developed "clunks" in their travel. I've felt this myself on my friends slider and it felt pretty horrible this way. TPC+ is a great damping system, the only disadvantage is lack of lubrication compared to marzocchi forks, so make sure you have the semi-open bath seals and are running it that way, it should help. TPC+ has a floating compression piston, a compression piston, and a rebound piston, it works extremely well because it relies on the tried and true shimmed-valve setup, just like a marzocchi abiet in a different configuration (TPC).

What you get with SPV is low speed harshness and adjustable rate. This has been somewhat problamatic for manitou forks because they have traditionally tried to make their forks progressive by putting elastomers in them. The TPC+ was a little more progressive due to the floating piston which allowed for travel before the heavier damping of the 2nd piston kicked in, but I'd ride TPC+ long before I will an SPV fork.

TPC+ is/was good stuff, and there's more than a few people that are dissapointed that Manitou has removed it from their top forks.

 

[Dougal]

TPC+ is/was good stuff, and there's more than a few people that are dissapointed that Manitou has removed it from their top forks.

Yep I'm one of them (the three manitous I own are all TPC) but one is temporarily SPV. I get the feeling that it will return. Manitou has made a lot of short term sales from SPV but it's only now most people are realising how good tpc actually is.

 

[thebronze]

Yep I'm one of them (the three manitous I own are all TPC) but one is temporarily SPV. I get the feeling that it will return. Manitou has made a lot of short term sales from SPV but it's only now most people are realising how good tpc actually is.

Jeez, am I the only one happy with my minute 1?
I cant seem to find another $300 fork with as many features and range of adjustments.
I would love to have a Fox f80x but $700 for a fork is not logical or reasonable for me.
Last I checked Marzocchis at that price range were the pitiful mx comp series.
I know because i've had 2 of them and the damping is horrible, not to mention the clunk.
Has anyone ever figured out why the mx comps rattle and clunk so damn bad?
The minute is by no means perfect but I dont see anything else similar in that price range, maybe the marathon?

 

[jparker164]

I put the 04 dampener assembly back in and everything works fine. I think the 05 Evolve blue SPV valve is defective. With the 04 assembly, the SPV valve kinda snaps back immediately doing the finger test. With my 05 Evolve, it takes it's time and then doesn't return as fully or forcefully as the 04. Could this account for the platform never kicking off?

After I put my new SPV evolve damper in I noticed the same thing. I did notice how slow the SPV valve returned on the new cartridge, but since my old one was completely immobile I thought nothing of it. I rode it anyways, and after the first rough DH it felt much better. Now it feels smoother than the old valve ever did. I guess something just had to break in.

 

[cholla]

You will only need to add grease if it's either notchy feeling (doesn't slide smoothly) or if you clean out the old grease. Just opening and then closing up the 05 damper shouldn't disturb any of the original grease on the seals but will reset the internal pressure.

Yahoo! I tried your recommendation on Saturday and it worked! I used some of the grease laying in the bottom of the SPV valve and covered all sliding parts as best I could (very very little grease available). I got the SPV valve to smoothly compress and pop back up again. Went riding afterwards and it was great - the fork behaved at it should and I didn't get beat up. Went riding again today and at first life was still good ... however, half-way thru the ride, the fork starting getting harsh again. I suspect the problem has returned and the valve is sticking again. Does anyone know where I can obtain the magical oil-resistant grease so I can fix this thing once and for all?

 

[thebronze]

OK I'm lost, if the oil is cleaning the grease out of the valve, shouldnt the same oil be enough to lubricate the valve? Why is grease needed in a valve that oil flows through?

 

[KevinB]

OK I'm lost, if the oil is cleaning the grease out of the valve, shouldnt the same oil be enough to lubricate the valve? Why is grease needed in a valve that oil flows through?

Oil doesn't flow through the portion that's greased. The grease is used to seal air into a small chamber; this air forms a spring. If oil gets in this small air spring compartment, displacing the air, the valve will not operate properly and will likely be quite stuck.

 

[KevinB]

Yahoo! I tried your recommendation on Saturday and it worked! I used some of the grease laying in the bottom of the SPV valve and covered all sliding parts as best I could (very very little grease available). I got the SPV valve to smoothly compress and pop back up again. Went riding afterwards and it was great - the fork behaved at it should and I didn't get beat up. Went riding again today and at first life was still good ... however, half-way thru the ride, the fork starting getting harsh again. I suspect the problem has returned and the valve is sticking again. Does anyone know where I can obtain the magical oil-resistant grease so I can fix this thing once and for all?

I'd like to know what kind of grease to use too. I tried using silicone based vacuum grease; this grease worked for one ride, but that was all. There are other vacuum greases available, but they're quite expensive, too expensive for me to experiment with.

I think the silicone grease was actually resistant to the shock oil. I speculate that the reason it failed is because I didn't do a good enough job at cleaning out the old oil / grease from the valve assembly. (I used simple green, rinsed with water, and then used compressed air to blow out any residual water, lube, degreaser, etc.) I suspect that the residual oil (or perhaps even the oil from my fingers) created an interface through which the pressurized fork oil was able to work it's way into the air chamber. The only evidence that I have to support this theory is that when I disassembled the valve after it failed with the silicone grease, I tried regreasing it without the rather thorough degreasing procedure outlined above. When I tried it this way, the valve wouldn't hold air beyond a couple of test compressions using my fingers. I don't find this compelling enough to prove my theory, but it certainly does seem that valve preparation (degreasing, etc) does play some part in whether or not the grease seal will be effective.