That exact scenario is very tough to escape without a dab, unless you actually have room - and the ability - to roll backwards and adjust your feet. And even then, re-starting straight up the hill is usually too hard, so you want to be at an angle to the fall line when you re-start.

Best bet is to avoid said scenario. ...possibly by seeking 🔬 the best traction surface (one little rock can make or break you), looking farther ahead, hitting the climb with more speed/momentum, or conserving a little power for those low-traction momentum-draining spots. ????

Tricky, no doubt.

-F

 

Ratchet the cranks 1/4 turn back and try again. Need to be quick and it's also why a lot of people like high engaugement hubs.

For what it's worth my nice Onyx hub seems to give me a bit more traction. The sprags wind up a little when torque is applied giving the rear wheel smoother power delivery. It's been pretty noticable on steep loose climbs. The instant engaugement helps a ton with ratcheting.

 

yep, a quick little ratchet motion helps a lot. I also usually shift my weight subtly onto the rear tire to increase traction onto it. I say subtly, because you don't want to suddenly lift the front wheel or introduce too much wander.

Where I still need work is on technical spots where the same thing happens, but roots or rocks are putting an odd sideways pressure on the tires that makes it hard to balance long enough to get that little pedal ratchet. This is where I think some trials hopping is beneficial to get out of that predicament. Also something I'm not good at.

 

The better your balance gets the slower ypu can go without tipping over. So that trials skill is helpful. Locking brakes and hopping is going to waste a lot of energy. just keep spinning forward and try to pedal smooth circles of power instead of having a specific area of “power stroke” that will make you less likely to spin out in the first place, which should be your goal.

 

Combined with that quarter ratchet and beginning to re-lay down power, simultaneously pull backwards into your bars (towards you) while keeping your hips stationary. This will dig your rear wheel into the ground with that power. This works in all kinds of scenarios where you're laying down power in a slippery low traction spot.

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Track stand and small ratchet of the cranks. Adjust weight slightly rearward.

 

Maybe I’m reading the OP wrong, but when climbing a steep incline, you should not be standing. I regularly climb steep inclines, and the trick for me is sit on the seat and muscle the cranks in a smooth manner. Backpedaling can help sometimes, but if a tire slips on a steep, it’s too late. There is no time to back pedal or trials hop.

I guess the question hinges on a rider’s definition of “steep.”

 

Maybe I'm reading the OP wrong, but when climbing a steep incline, you should not be standing. I regularly climb steep inclines, and the trick for me is sit on the seat and muscle the cranks in a smooth manner. Backpedaling can help sometimes, but if a tire slips on a steep, it's too late. There is no time to back pedal or trials hop.

I guess the question hinges on a rider's definition of "steep."

That's me. I can clear the steepest things we have around here, but it takes the ideal line and I have to be seated. If I'm standing, the rear loses traction and I'm doing the walk of shame.

 

Keep balance and try to continue. This requires standing in most case, so if you know about a tough section, stand up before the point where you would normally stop.

 

You can do it standing, but you'd better be in a bigger gear than you would be when you're seated. If the climb is short, I very well might be standing to power up it. I'm more likely to be seated if it's a long grind of a climb.

 

Yeah ledgy and super tech requires out of the saddle moves. Same with the steepest of steep if there' traction, Moab comes to mind. Otherwise I'm seated and trying to keep my heart rate and breathing in check.

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Thanks everyone. Lots to try.

This is the first time I’ve ever seen a reason given to worry about finer ratcheting in the hub although it’s a really familiar marketing distinction.

I’ve known for a while that applying brake, though counterintuitive, can improve control. I learned it doing figure 8’s in MSF class years ago and I’ve used it riding along with a jogger too.

 

This is the first time I've ever seen a reason given to worry about finer ratcheting in the hub although it's a really familiar marketing distinction.

The main reason I like rapid hub engagement is for crawling through tech sections where a full pedal stroke can often result in a pedal strike. Sometimes encounter this on super tight switchbacks, too. Just a little 1/8 to 1/4 pedal stroke to keep the momentum without pedal strikes on stuff poking up along the side of the trail. Faster engaging hubs let you use more of that small amount of the pedal stroke to deliver power. It's different scenario than the one you've described in this thread.

A hard spin on a patch of loose dirt on an otherwise smooth section of uphill is really hard to recover from. Your back tire is still going to be in that same loose dirt that caused you to spin in the first place. You can cock back the pedals quickly, but it will probably spin again. The best way to deal with patches of loose dirt on climbs is to be proactive and do nice smooth pedal strokes, and keep a higher cadence to avoid spinning in the first place. That's true for both standing and sitting.

Locking out your knee and shifting all your weight to one pedal with every standing pedal stroke makes slipping a tire more likely, and harder to recover from. Since all your weight is locked out and all on one pedal, once your tire slips it is over. Since all your weight is on one locked out leg when you spin, momentum sends your body forward toward that pedal on that side of the bike, and you can't get your weight back on the other pedal to do anything.

Try to drop your hips and keep a more even weight between the pedals, keep a bit of knee bend, keep the cadence up, and keep pedaling through the top and bottom of the pedal stroke (round vs. square pedaling). You will lose traction less often, and when you lose traction, it will be a less dramatic loss of traction. Instead of a big hard spin that throws all your weight forward, it will be a smaller slip. Because your weight is centered/balanced and the cadence is higher, you will already be on the next pedal stroke and already recovering. No dramatic hard spin where you end up with your nuts headed straight towards your top tube.

When that happens usually you have been caught with your weight too far forward. On the down stroke push your butt back on the saddle just a bit and give a bit more hinge at your waste. Doesn't need to be a lot but just a little helps. If you slip your weight will be a more neutral position and you have better chance of finding traction again.

These last two are definitely good points. If your weight is too far forward and you get caught at full extension on the downstroke when your tire slips, I agree that you're done. A more neutral position like LMN mentions definitely does help to give you more time to recover. You definitely want to be able to catch tire slippage early if you can. The occasions where I'm most likely to be caught with my weight too far forward when I slip out are when I'm climbing a techy, rooty section in the wet. Where the surrounding dirt/rock has much more traction than the wet roots. If I don't shift enough weight onto the rear tire to prevent slipping, when the rear tire does slip on wet roots, it usually does so dramatically and I'm not recovering from that. Usually when that happens to me, not only does my weight go onto one pedal, leg locked, but I often get the stem in my gut as my momentum carries me forward.

On loose, dry stuff, tire slippage for me is usually less dramatic. I can usually feel when I'm nearer to the limits of my traction and that gives me the opportunity to make adjustments, such as shifting the hips back a little more, pulling back on the bars, a quick pedal ratchet as needed, etc.

 

Whether it’s seated or not depends on speed and power. I can definitely do a better job following the line and going over stuff while standing in a higher faster gear but I run out of juice.

This is in CA, very dry and packed and dusty, sometimes DG, and in my area the rocks are all the size and shape of potatoes. But I’ve experienced the same thing in Phoenix where I grew up (mostly in places that are now under houses or no longer bike friendly) and south of Ridgecrest CA

 

You're going up a steep spot, you are in very low gear going maybe 2mph. Your back tire slides in the middle of your power stroke. You wind up with your cranks vertical, if you were standing your weight is now on the bottom pedal. Your tiny remaining momentum instantly evaporates. What's the best way to recover and continue? I always wind up with a foot down. I'm wondering if I should try to grab the brakes and start bouncing around like a trials rider. I've been riding mountain bikes since I was a tween, 30 years ago, and I've never really figured this out.

Quickly jump off your bike before going backwards...

Whip off that lame round chainring you've been running...

Throw on that oval chainring you've been carrying around for an age, contemplating whether or not to install...

Now glide up and over all those techy obstacles that will try and rob you of your forward momentum.

[emoji869]

Oval FTW!!

Sent from my Asus Rog 3 [emoji123]

 

hopping around like a trials rider on a steep section of trail usually works best when you get experienced enough to KNOW when your back tire is going to spin, and start doing trials moves before the tire spins. Trials riding is all about being able to "see" the limits ahead of time and act on the limit.

For example, coming around a corner you spot a ledge you have to climb and the angle is wrong. You might brake to a stop with the pedals level, hop and pivot to square up straight to the ledge, then attack the ledge. Waiting until you hit the ledge and have the tire slip, and then trying some trials moves probably won't work that well. Better to just take the dab, than to spasmodically jerk around, and still dab anyways.

 

A hard spin on a patch of loose dirt on an otherwise smooth section of uphill is really hard to recover from. Your back tire is still going to be in that same loose dirt that caused you to spin in the first place. You can cock back the pedals quickly, but it will probably spin again. The best way to deal with patches of loose dirt on climbs is to be proactive and do nice smooth pedal strokes, and keep a higher cadence to avoid spinning in the first place. That's true for both standing and sitting.

Locking out your knee and shifting all your weight to one pedal with every standing pedal stroke makes slipping a tire more likely, and harder to recover from. Since all your weight is locked out and all on one pedal, once your tire slips it is over. Since all your weight is on one locked out leg when you spin, momentum sends your body forward toward that pedal on that side of the bike, and you can't get your weight back on the other pedal to do anything.

Try to drop your hips and keep a more even weight between the pedals, keep a bit of knee bend, keep the cadence up, and keep pedaling through the top and bottom of the pedal stroke (round vs. square pedaling). You will lose traction less often, and when you lose traction, it will be a less dramatic loss of traction. Instead of a big hard spin that throws all your weight forward, it will be a smaller slip. Because your weight is centered/balanced and the cadence is higher, you will already be on the next pedal stroke and already recovering. No dramatic hard spin where you end up with your nuts headed straight towards your top tube.

 

I think it is experience and fitness.
I have one of those trails here with 2 or 3 spots that you are just going to spin out.
If I am in good shape I can control the power deliver and/or hold it steady when I do spin out. If I'm just sucking wind and hating life that day, foot is going down for sure.
With experience and fitness comes technique. I can see ratcheting the cranks, but I guess I do it naturally as it was not in my mind to suggest ratcheting it. I live my life by ratcheting the cranks in many situations.

If you have those trails that routinely allow you to spin out, prepare for it by getting in to one gear harder. It's more challenging to spin out when you have resistance and you control the power delivery. In a low gear you're far more likely to spin out. One of our hills is a must (for me) to be in the 50t most of the way up, or my small/big when it was a 2x10). I'll be sure to use as much caution as possible on the known areas that I will slip, and if it's not the steepest bit, I'll be in 2nd or 3rd gear. Yes it is difficult, but that is where the fitness part of equation comes in to play.

Otherwise, if I am riding up a steep hill that I am not familiar with, experience tells us how to read the trail to how to plan for it.

And lastly, experience = instinct and when you have that accidental slip, you just know how to fix it. I can get caught off guard on one of the long steep hills here if it is excessively dry and I misread the trail or didn't think the tiny pebble would spin me out. It's not so steep that I can't fix it, but difficult enough that I'm tired, almost too tired to want to fix the issues I may encounter.

 

I second everything written above re standing and sitting, back ratcheting, etc. One thing nobody mentioned is tires. I like to be able to stand periodically on long, steep climbs, and technical climbs. It increases my overall speed and reduces fatigue. So I use a rear tire that provides a lot of pedaling traction. That's an often overlooked tire characteristic I think. A maxxis dhr ii is like a paddle boat wheel, and so it gives riders a lot more flexibility of body position during climbing - especially if you install it backwards (so the lug profile designed for grippy braking is switched to grippy pedaling). Of course the downside of that extra grip is more rolling resistance on the flats. In happy to make that compromise because I don't like being stuck in the saddle nonstop on multi - mile climbs.

 

Interesting dynamic in the race I just completed this evening. There were more than a few super-steep climbs well into the double-digit grades, but mostly smooth and dusty, a bit loose too. They were short, like 20-50 feet, but there were a lot of them and they really took a toll on you. I noticed on hardtails really struggled on these to maintain traction. I used the lockout on the ones where I could, but I purposely opened the shock for some of the steepest ones so I could keep pedaling up, vs. spinning and losing traction. If anything, a little sag and more rearward pressure let me load the suspension/rear wheel a little more. If you lost traction on these steep hills though, I don't see how anyone would recover from it, it just happens too fast. It's like when your knee flies off your pedal and smashes into the bar while pulling up when a clipless pedal releases (shoe no longer bound to pedal). It's over before you know what happened.

 

When that happens usually you have been caught with your weight too far forward. On the down stroke push your butt back on the saddle just a bit and give a bit more hinge at your waste. Doesn't need to be a lot but just a little helps. If you slip your weight will be a more neutral position and you have better chance of finding traction again.

 

How much tech climbing do you guys do? You push the bars forward just enough to stop the slip then continue pedaling and normalize body position.