sell it and buy a different fork - next time don't buy shite

 

Fox makes good equipment but one needs to match the equipment to your use. Not shite but there are plenty that are…..

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

Sounds like you haven't even dropped the lowers yet? Step one (really before even riding a new fork) is to drop the lowers, perform a lower leg service and at the same time service the air spring to check for excessive grease. While at it, check how easily the lowers slide on the stanchions, you might have tight bushings. If following this you still experience harshness, I'd look into a Secus or potentially even a Smashpot, but the latter is probably not a great idea if you're already moaning about the weight of the fork. Step 3, sell it.

 

I’ll add: take out all those tokens too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

I always use the lightest equipment without going exotic. The 38 has proven to heavy and way too much for the trails I ride. It was a bunch of cash to drop but I have sent more and been unhappy too. Just sell it and try something new. I always liked Fox cause I can get parts, the equipment is generally good for what it was designed for and it does look nice. I use the 32 SC cause it’s lite and just stiff enough for me. My overall thoughts on any equipment is that if I drop cash on the best equipment I can afford, if I don’t make the top, it’s all on me…..no equipment to blame…….does motivate me by thinking this is about the best it’s going to get so I must make the top…..even in the face of loose 10% grade……

 

dont even worry about it mate, i'll take it off of your hands and help u out 😄😆

 

Did you keep your Lyrik or sell it? If you kept it, I'd throw it back on and unload the 38. I have to admit I was bemused when you said that you 'upgraded' from a Lyrik ultimate. The Lyrik is an excellent fork, IMO as good as anything off the shelf and better than most. Seems like you were trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

 

You’ve literally tried every combination you can think of. Contextually, it sounds like you’re just twiddling knobs and expecting magic to happen.

Do the basics. Pull the air spring side. Is it gunked with grease? How many volume spacers are in it?

Drops the lowers and make sure oil is present.

Or sell the fork. A 38 isn’t really an upgrade from a Lyrik from a damping perspective unless you prefer the Fox feel (I don’t).

 

Not suggesting it's the case here, but always amazes me how many people drop thousands of dollars on kashima, yet have no clue how to service and maintain it properly. Even if you don't do any of it yourself, at least take it to someone who can. And not just that, but most riders I talk to have no clue how to even adjust their suspension ... I was riding local the other day, dude was on a Yeti SB165. Gorgeous looking bike. I asked him what he's got his settings at and he looked at me like I was speaking Chinese. He literally didn't even touch his fork or shock after he bought it, and it was news to him that shock pumps are a thing and need to be used. Really is unfathomable to me that someone drops $10k+ and doesn't even YouTube it for 5 minutes.

 

I have been down your exact same path. I had a Lyrik with a FAST Suspension damper valved for me. But the Lyrik had too much fore/aft flex for the terrain I ride. I switched to the Fox 38 based on the rave reviews from the media (I am now convinced 99% of mountain bikers have no idea how suspension should feel).

The first step to fix my 38 was to burnish the bushings, that only made a minor change since there wasn't too much excessive friction from the bushings in the first place.
Next step I isolated my air spring from the rest of the fork, here's where I found my 38 has a ridiculous amount of air spring stiction. I disassembled it, cleaned, inspected and re-installed. Still excessive stiction. Purchased a new air spring thinking there's no way Fox as a company could possible sell an air spring knowingly with so much stiction....well I was wrong, the new air spring was just as horrible as the original.
I have now installed a Vorsprung Smashpot. I haven't ridden it yet because of winter, but just pushing the fork though it's travel you can very clearly tell a major difference in stiction, it's nearly non-existent. As a bonus to really finish off this fork I have sent the damper to Shockcraft to have it modified and tuned. After all this it better be the best fork ever...since it's now the most expensive single crown ever..

Moral of the story, if you ride motocross and know what real suspension feels like....don't buy Fox or Rockshox

 

Moral of the story, if you ride motocross and know what real suspension feels like....don't buy Fox or Rockshox

What would you buy instead?

 

Fox 38 is stiff, I have heard big boys complain of it deflecting off of stuff at times.

For a 150# rider it would have to be used in a rough environment and ridden hard to see any benefit. For mellower trails there may not be a benefit.

I for one like the steering precision and tracking the 38mm stanchions/chassis provide (I have a ZEB), but it is also on a 180mm bike that gets ridden in the steep and rough stuff.

But more info is needed; what bike is it on, what travel are you running?
For sure drop the lowers and give it a once over, see how the bushings feel. Then try with compression wide open and LSR to your liking.

If still a no-go, sell it or trade for something smaller. Shouldn't be too hard

 

It could be excess grease in the negative chamber but I think this problem is not as prevalent as people think (at least to the extent there's enough grease to actually cause problems). The 38 also needs a shaft clamp to remove the air spring from the sleeve. I recommend taking it to a shop if you're not comfortable with doing that.

I think more common is riders running too little pressure and too much rebound. If you want a soft plush fork you should have bought something different to be honest.

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

As other have said, do the lower leg service first and maybe change the oil more thinner. Decrease air pressure.
Next open HSC and try if it helps. If it's diving too much close it couple of clicks.

Do you have 35 mm stem and bar? As your speed has increased, it may be that it is hitting your hands too much now and it's feeling harsh. If it's possible try 31.9 version of both. I also changed the OneUp carbon bar and it helped a lot.

Edit: I forgot this. Check how many tokens you have

 

Make sure the axle is aligned and the LSR is backed out a good 6 to 8 clicks at least. The compression stroke will lock up because of the interplay between those circuits especially for a lighter rider.

If you can lean the bike over and the fork won't articulate with minimal bar input, the bushings are roached. Pretty common.

 

I'm closing in on 200lbs ready to ride and I wouldn't bother with a F38/Zeb. I've got a Lyrik & Marz Z1 the 36mm chassis is more than enough for me riding natural trails. I don't bikepark or do mega jumps.

A F38 should be easy to sell. Get rid of it and get something else.

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

Everyone is having this issue...Fox 38 is over damped..most of us are running the damping nearly completely open. And it still isn't that good. Though the 38 has all these great features. The ZEB just feels better and works. A part of me doesn't understand why fox does this other than....that they are publicly traded soooo....

 

The Grip 2 VVC is actually pretty lightly damped.

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

I think they say its more for heavier riders. IMO your kinda light weight.
I had a 36 3 years ago. Smooth through fast rough sections. But RS fork always feels more supple through low/ medium speeds.

 

It sure seems silly to have to service a new fork just to make it feel passable.

 

Welcome to the mtb industry, it's been that way since the 90's.

Forks with zero lube in the lowers, forks with a cup of grease on the air spring, forks with a ton of air trapped in the lowers, etc. Assembly QC sets a very low bar.

 

I felt this way back when going from a Pike to 36.

As someone stated, back off on the compression. Also try dialing down your air spring pressure and maintain rebound per air spring pressure. As I got acclimated to the Fox, I climbed up to the recommended air spring pressure and dialed up the compression a few clicks.

I just got a 38 for my 29er enduro bike. Can't wait to put it to the test.

 

Just my two cents. Fox and Rockshox forks feel very different, a person who likes one will generally not like the other. Even within Fox different forks feel very different. Fox 34 Rhythm is a very lively and surprisingly well dampened fork. The new Fox 36 Grip 2 factory on my sons bike is dead feeling, with a spring that is soft for an inch or so, hits a wall in the midstroke, then blows through travel. Just put a Luftkappe in it which will hopefully help, but should have just started with an Onyx. (He won’t run a Mezzer because he doesn’t want to match dad.)

 

Did you like your Mezzer right out of the box?

 

Fox and RS 38mm forks have next to no useful compression damping. Usually the issue is too much air spring that still ends up being too busy, or a normal spring rate and riding way too far down in the stroke and getting harsh.

I don't know why this is acceptable out of top of the line offerings from the two biggest players. That and the bushing issues....wtf?

 

You said it, you bought the wrong fork for your trails. School fees have been paid, go back to the Lyrik or Pike. Even Martin Maes says the 38 is too much fork and runs a 36

 

Try fully closed HSC and fully open LSC

 

The 38 is a fantastic fork. Stiff for precise steering input and it can suck up the big hits.

If it feels harsh it's likely just because you've got the dampening closed off more than you need. Open everything up, set your sag and go for a ride. Slowly dial in the compression/rebound dampening to suit your riding and trails. You're pretty light so you won't need much.

 

Little dramatic but i honestly dont even feel like riding with this fork. I dont know what it is but it just feels like absolute crap. My old fork was a lyrik ultimate and i thought i wanted to try something "stiffer" after trying a demo bike with a fox 38 and falling in love with it. but after owning it for 4 months now and it being on 2 different bikes it has been a very disappointing experience. To summarize i think the fork was complete overkill for the trails i ride and took the fun out of trail riding the steering became very heavy and climbing was harder. At my weight of 150lbs but i have just NEVER been able to dial it in no matter what i do. I've tried literally every combination i think i can come up with but what im left with is a harsh spikey/deflecting feeling fork, even off jumps it just feels so bad. It can defiantly plow harder than my lyrik ever could and im sure im way faster on it, but it just doesn't feel that great to me in the rough stuff or smooth stuff and im not sure why. I feel like it holds me back.

its a 160mm 2021 fox 38 grip 2 kashima that cost me $2k... which i deeply regretted after my first couple rides on it.

Have you guys got any ideas what i should be doing? i've heard the negative airspring can be full of grease from factory but im really not counting on that to be the issue here, but it very well could be. It does feel quite sticky like the seals are dry as a bone so maybe it needs a good service before i make my finally call on it.

I wish I saw this before I purchased the Zeb.

Sorry you’ve had such a bad experienc.

just because something is further up the range or more expensive doesn’t mean it‘ll work for your intended use.

I had the choice between a lyrik ultimate or a zeb ultimate at effectively the same money, to replace my pike rct3.

I was leaning towards the Zeb (bigger + normally more expensive) but knew the lyrik would be more than capable & have a weight advantage & have less penalty when climbing. Could the Zeb be too much for what I need it for is a risk, it being somewhat sticky is not something I’ve considered.

maybe less sag, more compression low and high, play with rebound.

I hope you get it sorted, have you tried fox warranty?

 

When I bought my ZEB I thought the same thing...came from a FOX 36 GRIP 1 with Smashpot and the ZEB Select felt like utter shite. The I decided to install a Smashpot...big improvement but still got some stiction.
I realised it takes a while for the seals and bushings to bed on these forks...the longer I've had it the better it feels but still I know the Select damper is **** so have also opted for a Fast SC4 damper I'm due for delivery soon. The chassis stiffness isn't the issue with these big forks it's the increased stiction and somewhat lame damper tunes. I'm only 74kg and love the precision and stiffness of my ZEB.

But I agree a lot of **** is well overated by reviewers and forum folk alike. Just fitted some Oneup bars...they aren't bad but honestly can't see what all the fuss is about...they are still bloody damn stiff regardless what bs is marketed or people say on the net...they feel a bit more compliant than my 31.8mm nukeproof alloy bars but have less backsweep so are maybe actually less comfortable. If anything I notice the most is they feel stiffer steering but I shortened my stem too so that probably makes up for most of the increase in steering response. I had some cheap Chinese ec90 carbon bars on ebay...I'll tell you straight...they are way way more compliant and soft feeling than Oneup bars...but they are also flexible as fk and weigh only 160 grams. I think people are so used to spending thousands on total crap pre-built bikes that when they upgrade one bit they think it's amazing...yet the reality is it's still shite, just slightly better shite than the **** that was on there before.
So guys anyone thinking about Oneups...they are nothing magical, they just feel like a handlebar and I'd argue there is more compliant 31.8mm carbon bars out there...though I will say for the compliance they do have the steering stiffness is good so I won't be taking them off as they are a good balance between a direct feel and taking a bit of the edge off compared to a typical 35mm bar.

 

When I bought my ZEB I thought the same thing...came from a FOX 36 GRIP 1 with Smashpot and the ZEB Select felt like utter shite. The I decided to install a Smashpot...big improvement but still got some stiction.
I realised it takes a while for the seals and bushings to bed on these forks...the longer I've had it the better it feels but still I know the Select damper is **** so have also opted for a Fast SC4 damper I'm due for delivery soon. The chassis stiffness isn't the issue with these big forks it's the increased stiction and somewhat lame damper tunes. I'm only 74kg and love the precision and stiffness of my ZEB.

But I agree a lot of ** is well overated by reviewers and forum folk alike. Just fitted some Oneup bars...they aren't bad but honestly can't see what all the fuss is about...they are still bloody damn stiff regardless what bs is marketed or people say on the net...they feel a bit more compliant than my 31.8mm nukeproof alloy bars but have less backsweep so are maybe actually less comfortable. If anything I notice the most is they feel stiffer steering but I shortened my stem too so that probably makes up for most of the increase in steering response. I had some cheap Chinese ec90 carbon bars on ebay...I'll tell you straight...they are way way more compliant and soft feeling than Oneup bars...but they are also flexible as fk and weigh only 160 grams. I think people are so used to spending thousands on total crap pre-built bikes that when they upgrade one bit they think it's amazing...yet the reality is it's still shite, just slightly better shite than the ** that was on there before.
So guys anyone thinking about Oneups...they are nothing magical, they just feel like a handlebar and I'd argue there is more compliant 31.8mm carbon bars out there...though I will say for the compliance they do have the steering stiffness is good so I won't be taking them off as they are a good balance between a direct feel and taking a bit of the edge off compared to a typical 35mm bar.

I tried them too ... In OneUp's defense, it was almost impossible for them to really impress me after hearing people hype it up like it's the greatest thing in the world.

They were good, nothing special ... Renthal Fatbar alloy is on a tier by itself IMO.

 

Just like all these clowns buying LG C1 oleds at the moment and think they are the best TV because everyone is buying them and every goon in the department store says LG is the best....errm no they bloody aren't for numerous reasons. I have learnt to never ask for advice from people working in shops...95% almost certainly don't know their ass from their elbow but the sheeple just stair the with wide open eyes...oh really...OK I'll take this one...

 

I think its a matter of finding an expert. In this case a $2k fork with bad experience, find a local suspension expert that can teach you how to disassemble and debug.

I got to ask danica patrick about how her interaction with team and suspension settings worked. She kept not understanding the question. Turns out shes no idea what suspension even looks like, shes got people on her team that can read her mind and make car good for her, for the track on that day. Clear example that experience of use isnt the same as knowledge needed for tuning.

 

I got to ask danica patrick about how her interaction with team and suspension settings worked. She kept not understanding the question. Turns out shes no idea what suspension even looks like, shes got people on her team that can read her mind and make car good for her, for the track on that day. Clear example that experience of use isnt the same as knowledge needed for tuning.

I enjoy the Fox Dialed series on YouTube. Top level pro Dh'ers roll their bikes into the Fox tent, describe how their bike is behaving and how they want it to behave, then the suspension tuning pro(s) make all the adjustments.