[CTB]

On the large diameter ABS+ stacks, the piston has a 0.6mm lip that the platform shims preload against, not sure if the preload piston lip height is same for the smaller cartridge stack.

Oh man, I completely forgot to measure the depth of the land on the piston. I was going to do that but it went right out of my brain. I'm quite sure it is a smaller lip than the large piston, but "quite sure" isn't very accurate. I'll measure it once I have some shims and do some tuning.

Dougal, right now I run the fork wide open. I'd like less HSC than I have now and to perhaps shift the range so that I can run the fork more in the middle of the clicks so that I have at least some adjustability both ways.

 

[CTB]

Another thought: this link
Manitou's Marvel Pro and Real Custom Tuning - Eurobike 2011 - Pinkbike
shows what looks like my fork on the outside, but then shows the in-leg version of the ABS+ damper. Since I already have the tuning kit with all kinds of shims and pistons, is there any reason (other than the few grams of weight that I don't care about) that I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't change my fork over to the bigger piston system (non-cartridge ABS+)? I'd need the rebound assembly as well, but I don't know that they would fit into my 2012 model.

Edit:
It looks like I would have been better off getting the Expert model instead of the Pro model. The Expert appears to have everything needed to use my tuning kit. I bought the Pro because I thought it was exactly the opposite. I'm going over the parts schematics now, but it looks like I just could use Expert guts and be good to go. Ain't that a kick in the head.

 

[Dougal]

Another thought: this link
Manitou's Marvel Pro and Real Custom Tuning - Eurobike 2011 - Pinkbike
shows what looks like my fork on the outside, but then shows the in-leg version of the ABS+ damper. Since I already have the tuning kit with all kinds of shims and pistons, is there any reason (other than the few grams of weight that I don't care about) that I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't change my fork over to the bigger piston system (non-cartridge ABS+)? I'd need the rebound assembly as well, but I don't know that they would fit into my 2012 model.

Edit:
It looks like I would have been better off getting the Expert model instead of the Pro model. The Expert appears to have everything needed to use my tuning kit. I bought the Pro because I thought it was exactly the opposite. I'm going over the parts schematics now, but it looks like I just could use Expert guts and be good to go. Ain't that a kick in the head.

That would depend if your stanchions are taper wall inside or not. If they are then you'd need the cartridge rebound shaft of the new type. This will give you a small daimeter rebound piston but full diameter compression piston.

I need to order some of these parts myself so I can verify fitment.

 

[CTB]

Based on the 2012 service manual that Manitou has online (and mine is a 2012), the Pro and Expert share stanchion/crown assy's.

Common parts:
Crown assy: 141-28131-K010
Knob kit (rebound): 141-28131-K017
Outer Casting (sliders): 141-27988-K019

The parts above are for a white 120mm QR15 tapered Marvel.

Non-shared parts:
ABS+ damper (Expert): 141-28532-K101
ABS+ Cartridge damper (Pro): 141-26532-K009
Rebound damper (Expert): 141-28131-K018
Cartridge Rebound (Pro): 83-3282 (?)
Cartridge tube for 120mm tapered stanchions (Pro): 141-28131-K002

It appears that the Expert parts can go into the Pro stanchions based on this.

Mullen is very kindly sending me some shims, so I'll at least be able to tune what I have a bit and see what I find. (Thanks!)

 

[rupps5]

What ptfe are you guys using on the legs?

 

[arnea]

I must say that I didn't get the question. If it was about the assembly lube then I'm using Rock'n'Roll Superslick on various seals. It works fine. Now I got Slickoleum and will try to see how it works.

 

[CTB]

So to follow up with my post above:
My goal was to reduce the overall amount of compression damping so that I could be at least a couple clicks into the middle of the adjustment range on the Marvel.

First I tried by simply removing one of the 14's from the disc stack.

9 x 6 x 0.25
14 x 6 x 0.21 <-- removed
14 x 6 x 0.21
9 x 6 x 0.25

That was comically plush and made the front end feel like a gumdrop in the sun. It absorbed everything, but the bike was dead as heck. You couldn't pop the front end up for anything. I finished that ride with the compression adjuster one click away from lockout, just to make it feel barely acceptable.

So happily one of the discs that Mullen sent me split the difference nicely. I believe it was a 14 x 6 x 0.10, so I added that in.

Now we're talking. After a lot of rides on it, I'm on the 2nd or 3rd click from wide open on the compression adjuster now, and the ride quality is excellent without being dead. I'm very happy with this. Mullen, thanks again for the discs!

9 x 6 x 0.25
14 x 6 x 0.21
14 x 6 x 0.10
9 x 6 x 0.25

 

[Björnsitsen]

I have a problem with my minute comp 140. Fork is new and worked before i started tuning.... pulled out damper unit and removed one shim from my trail stack. Put damper unit back and now The abs+ lever dont work. No lockout or increased compression.

Put The shim back again and check oil level. Cant find anything wrong.

Have taken it out 20 times now but cant find anything wrong. Now when i push hard on the fork it locks out after some cm. If I push slowly on the fork i cant feel any lockout or change in compression. Tried 85-90mm in oil level.

What is wrong?

Best regards

 

[Dougal]

I have a problem with my minute comp 140. Fork is new and worked before i started tuning.... pulled out damper unit and removed one shim from my trail stack. Put damper unit back and now The abs+ lever dont work. No lockout or increased compression.

Put The shim back again and check oil level. Cant find anything wrong.

Have taken it out 20 times now but cant find anything wrong. Now when i push hard on the fork it locks out after some cm. If I push slowly on the fork i cant feel any lockout or change in compression. Tried 85-90mm in oil level.

What is wrong?

Best regards

It's likely a shim isn't centred or is damaged, letting oil bypass. You'll have to take it apart, spread it all out carefully and check all the pieces.

 

[Björnsitsen]

Could it be the thin shim that lets oil flow back after compression? The one that has a small coil. Not shim stack. That one has a smal damage.

Thanks for quick reply!

 

[Dougal]

Could it be the thin shim that lets oil flow back after compression? The one that has a small coil. Not shim stack. That one has a smal damage.

Thanks for quick reply!

That'll do it. It'll bypass oil on compression and rebound if it doesn't seal.

 

[Björnsitsen]

Great! I try that tomorrow. Any idea where to get a new one or is it possible to get it straight igain?

 

[Björnsitsen]

Problem solved! Straighten the shim a little and put it back and now it works! Thanx for the help!

I think the fork is a little to progressive. Can i change coil on a ts air? Or does it help with a more linear stack?

 

[Dougal]

Problem solved! Straighten the shim a little and put it back and now it works! Thanx for the help!

I think the fork is a little to progressive. Can i change coil on a ts air? Or does it help with a more linear stack?

Yes you can swap TS Air for the ACT coil. I'm not aware of any different rate negative springs for the TS Air though.

I've never ridden a TS Air fork properly. My own Manitou forks are MARS, coil or Dorado Air.

 

[Björnsitsen]

Ok! So shim stack has nothing to do with progressive fork at all? Did i understand correct that i can buy only the coil from an act air fork and put it on my ts air?

I weight 80 kg geared up and have 60 psi at the moment. Only 10h on the fork so far so maybe it loses up little more with more hours.

 

[minisman]

Newbie with a Marvel Pro

I have the 2015 and it's the same. The piston is different diameter. But the shims ARE THE SAME. 17mm od for speed shims, 19mm od for platform shims. The only difference is the cartridge damper piston is machined smaller on the outer area where the oring is seated. Same as with the rebound piston. Outer part of the piston where the Teflon seal is is machined further to reduce overall diameter.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

So I have a 2016 Marvel pro (bought from Chain reaction in Jan 2016), I can confirm as above, the shims are 8x19mm. I'm guessing the earlier marvels must have had the smaller diameter.

So anyway my situation is, after reading this forum, I had bought the Marvel Pro to put on my hard tail, which is essentially a commuter and occasional have a play on easy XC trails. Truth be told I have probably done about 50km off road and 500km on road. In that time I felt it was a good fork, 3 or 4 clicks back felt good for "road bumps" compliance, and max definitely locked it out.

Anyway my main bike is a 2013 Rocky mountain element, which I am really happy with except the Fox CTD has always felt ordinary. Well the fox fork finally packed it in so I (re)read this forum to get some ideas and confirm my decision to add the Marvel Pro to the Rocky.

So Last night I opened it up to check the Shims situation (i've been a dirtbiker for years and never touched the things, but get the gist of them) Anyway the factory setup on my forks:
4 x 19mm platform shims and it had 72mm oil height

I dont have any spare shims yet, so all I could do was remove some shims. First up I took 2 platform shims out, so that it had the standard XC stack, when I put it back together I made the mistake of bouncing forks up and down on ground (since not installed on bike yet) and I thought it was not stiff enough to act as a lock out on Max, so put 1 shim back in, which makes it the same as CV-11411-07.

So I left the oil height at 72mm as well (even though this is more than specs say). I set sag at 25%, which was about 70psi.

Anyway I took it for a ride this morning on classical XC single track, pretty smooth, just a few small roots and rocks, a couple of 1ft jumps and drops.
My findings were:
1. full open on dial was still too stiff for small roots and rocks.
2. I used about 70% travel, So I think sag/pressure is about right, or maybe a little too high.
3. in general damp comp damping was just too stiff
4. rebound maxed to + and still felt like it needed more (maybe side affect of compression being too harsh
5. too stiff to notice brake dive
6. i think I will do the standard mod of dropping back to only 1 platform shim.

Anyone have a comment about oil height? will that add to general stiffness?

 

[mullen119]

So I have a 2016 Marvel pro (bought from Chain reaction in Jan 2016), I can confirm as above, the shims are 8x19mm. I'm guessing the earlier marvels must have had the smaller diameter.

So anyway my situation is, after reading this forum, I had bought the Marvel Pro to put on my hard tail, which is essentially a commuter and occasional have a play on easy XC trails. Truth be told I have probably done about 50km off road and 500km on road. In that time I felt it was a good fork, 3 or 4 clicks back felt good for "road bumps" compliance, and max definitely locked it out.

Anyway my main bike is a 2013 Rocky mountain element, which I am really happy with except the Fox CTD has always felt ordinary. Well the fox fork finally packed it in so I (re)read this forum to get some ideas and confirm my decision to add the Marvel Pro to the Rocky.

So Last night I opened it up to check the Shims situation (i've been a dirtbiker for years and never touched the things, but get the gist of them) Anyway the factory setup on my forks:
4 x 19mm platform shims and it had 72mm oil height
View attachment 1100651 View attachment 1100651
I dont have any spare shims yet, so all I could do was remove some shims. First up I took 2 platform shims out, so that it had the standard XC stack, when I put it back together I made the mistake of bouncing forks up and down on ground (since not installed on bike yet) and I thought it was not stiff enough to act as a lock out on Max, so put 1 shim back in, which makes it the same as CV-11411-07.

So I left the oil height at 72mm as well (even though this is more than specs say). I set sag at 25%, which was about 70psi.

Anyway I took it for a ride this morning on classical XC single track, pretty smooth, just a few small roots and rocks, a couple of 1ft jumps and drops.
My findings were:
1. full open on dial was still too stiff for small roots and rocks.
2. I used about 70% travel, So I think sag/pressure is about right, or maybe a little too high.
3. in general damp comp damping was just too stiff
4. rebound maxed to + and still felt like it needed more (maybe side affect of compression being too harsh
5. too stiff to notice brake dive
6. i think I will do the standard mod of dropping back to only 1 platform shim.

Anyone have a comment about oil height? will that add to general stiffness?

Unless you need a firm platform, don't tune that way. It makes for overly harsh square edge impacts unless the dial compression is full open or very close to it. Order shims and try a trail stack or better yet (if you don't want any lockout), a linear stack. This allows you to have the lsc adjuster close to closed for low speed support, but still blowoff for square edged hits. I believe my favorite stack was a 17x.2 shim for support and to reduce preload, followed by a 19x.1 that allowed the lsc adjuster to have a definitive effect and support slower shaft speeds. Before blowing off.

 

[minisman]

Unless you need a firm platform, don't tune that way. It makes for overly harsh square edge impacts unless the dial compression is full open or very close to it. Order shims and try a trail stack or better yet (if you don't want any lockout), a linear stack. This allows you to have the lsc adjuster close to closed for low speed support, but still blowoff for square edged hits. I believe my favorite stack was a 17x.2 shim for support and to reduce preload, followed by a 19x.1 that allowed the lsc adjuster to have a definitive effect and support slower shaft speeds. Before blowing off.

This bike is for XC racing as well, so I do want a decent platform, but NOT this harsh!

For now I am stuck with no spare shims, all I have is the 4x platform shims. So I guess I am asking is removing all except for 1 going to be ok for a bit of platform and much softer than now?

 

[mullen119]

This bike is for XC racing as well, so I do want a decent platform, but NOT this harsh!

For now I am stuck with no spare shims, all I have is the 4x platform shims. So I guess I am asking is removing all except for 1 going to be ok for a bit of platform and much softer than now?

No issues with running just one. Only way to know if it's firm enough is to try it. After you do a few changes, you will get fast enough that you can do it in 15 minutes, so changing will be fast and easy to try new things.

Keep in mind the thickness of the shims is very important, not just the diameter. Make sure you know the thickness of the shims you are using.

 

[sine waiver]

So I have a 2016 Marvel pro (bought from Chain reaction in Jan 2016), I can confirm as above, the shims are 8x19mm. I'm guessing the earlier marvels must have had the smaller diameter.

So anyway my situation is, after reading this forum, I had bought the Marvel Pro to put on my hard tail, which is essentially a commuter and occasional have a play on easy XC trails. Truth be told I have probably done about 50km off road and 500km on road. In that time I felt it was a good fork, 3 or 4 clicks back felt good for "road bumps" compliance, and max definitely locked it out.

Anyway my main bike is a 2013 Rocky mountain element, which I am really happy with except the Fox CTD has always felt ordinary. Well the fox fork finally packed it in so I (re)read this forum to get some ideas and confirm my decision to add the Marvel Pro to the Rocky.

So Last night I opened it up to check the Shims situation (i've been a dirtbiker for years and never touched the things, but get the gist of them) Anyway the factory setup on my forks:
4 x 19mm platform shims and it had 72mm oil height
View attachment 1100651
I dont have any spare shims yet, so all I could do was remove some shims. First up I took 2 platform shims out, so that it had the standard XC stack, when I put it back together I made the mistake of bouncing forks up and down on ground (since not installed on bike yet) and I thought it was not stiff enough to act as a lock out on Max, so put 1 shim back in, which makes it the same as CV-11411-07.

So I left the oil height at 72mm as well (even though this is more than specs say). I set sag at 25%, which was about 70psi.

Anyway I took it for a ride this morning on classical XC single track, pretty smooth, just a few small roots and rocks, a couple of 1ft jumps and drops.
My findings were:
1. full open on dial was still too stiff for small roots and rocks.
2. I used about 70% travel, So I think sag/pressure is about right, or maybe a little too high.
3. in general damp comp damping was just too stiff
4. rebound maxed to + and still felt like it needed more (maybe side affect of compression being too harsh
5. too stiff to notice brake dive
6. i think I will do the standard mod of dropping back to only 1 platform shim.

Anyone have a comment about oil height? will that add to general stiffness?

I am pretty light at ~67kg and found the compression damping to be excessive (mine had the 4, 19 x 0.2 shim stack). After trying numerous combinations I ended up running 2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim. The platform threshold with the needle closed is around 145N (14kg) which is ample for seated climbing. I have been running it 2-3 clicks from closed for climbing and descending and it works well. running 70psi in the spring and recommended damper oil height (87mm?)