[William P]

it looks like I'm the first one looking into doing this (RH tires on Ebike). I'n trying to avoid going tubeless with these tires. My first try with Latex tubes (for best rolling resistance @BRR) had very mixed results. The fast rolling, lightweight, and cushy ride were all there. The bike was more fun to ride than ever. The 1x11 setup let me keep upshifting on the slight inclines we have around here. My 70yo legs definitely noticed the difference. But the Latex tubes seemed to be allergic to air. Without sealant the daily leak down was there as expected. But both tires totally flat after 2 days off wasn't. I added EM Caffelatex foaming sealnt. One tire sealed up and is still holding pressure a few days later pretty much like a butyl tube. So the weight saving and fast roll is there to be had without much bother. But the other tube went flat again right away. The valve stem was coming off of the tube after 3 days at 33psi.
The tube that's holding air probably has the same problem, but is just held together with sealant. If the valve keep tearing loose at some point the sealant won't hold that one either.
They were a VittoriaLLatex tubes. A very nice setup If it works. I would recommend not adding sealant to latex tubes until you know you have good ones. But it seems it would work great if you do.
I've ordered a bunch of parts to continue this experiment. It's what I do.
Park Tools TSI-1 sealant injector. I'm finding that bike shops order this for themselves but don't carry them for customers. It has a tiny injector tube that fits down inside of a Presta a valve ( core removed) and can add, and remove sealant without gumming up the valve stem.
Rene HERSE TPU tubes. This is their recommendation, but often sold out. OTW. At BRR Latex rolls faster. I might try it again on the pedal bike. But the Ebike is getting something else.
I'm grabbing a bunch of tubeless stuff In case i end up going that way (never tried it before). I'm liking Efffetto Mariposa stuff. Not in Bike shops or online very much. I buy direct from them in Switzeraland.

Effetto Mariposa - Technical cycling products

Some examples of exclusive products developed by Effetto Mariposa: bicycle torque wrenches (Giustaforza family), accessories for tubeless (Caffélatex family) or for tubular tyres (Carogna family), protective tapes (Shelter family) and… much more. Everything is specifically designed for cycling...

www.effettomariposa.eu

Tubeless valve stems. Fits both Schrader and Presta, Threaded but designed to bend not break, removable cores, and a metal cap with a stem tool in it. Also 40mm not 48mm small size. I also got a bag of 10 Presta cores (retired ham fisted truck mechanic used to Schrader)
Re- usable EM tubeless rim strips. I ordered the size for the XC bike. You can save $ome by getting a kit with strips and stems together.
Other EM stuff I'm looking at.
A new vegeatrian sealant. lasts longer and cleans up with soap and water. Not foaming though, Veggelatex. I already have a liter of Caffelatex (foaming action, and no Ammonia).
Tire invader (Tyreinvader). I won't need this for the pedal bike. But if I go tubeless on the Ebike it will be there. Prevents pinch flats, and protects the sidewall if there is a flat. Weighs about the same as a Latex tube and easier to install than other tire inserts. (I'm running a rear Tannus on the Ebike now with non reinforced tires to get the weight back down).
I picked up an extra wheelset for the Ebike so it won't be out of action while I'm trying things. Koozer XF2064 26" triple hollow rims with axle convertible 72POE hub ( which gets locked out (softly) on my Ebike anyway). This may end up with a Saint M800 Rapid Rise SS cage derailleur ( the main reason I bought them).

 

[BackWoodsHick]

BTW Rene Herse has fine tuned their knobbies to roll just as fast as their slicks.

I'm fully on-board with RH, and have spent more on their tires than at the dentist today (there is a reason for that XTR cliché).

However, on the same bike, same wheels, etc., I have the 38mm Barlow Pass EL (slick) and 38 mm Steilacoom EL (knobbies), and the difference on steep hills, on road, is quite pronounced. If you look closely at Jan's claim, it is that the knobbies don't have a significant rolling resistance penalty at high speed. Therein lies the problem (at least for mortals like me). If I am climbing a > 10% grade, they are quite significantly harder to push. Overall, I am 1 to 2 mph slower on my rides with their treaded tires.

 

[William P]

I'm just getting mine back together. Wasted time and money on Latex tubes that fell apart. RH got their TPU tubes back in stock. So I'n running those now. i also added a +1* Works angle headset to tame the twitchy XC bike geometry. it was OK when I was riding a laid down riding position, but sitting up now it had a mind of it's own. This is an old26" 2004 XC Softtail, so wheel size and geometry are not modern at all. It's nice of RH to offer tires for 26" bikes.

 

[bpw]

I'm fully on-board with RH, and have spent more on their tires than at the dentist today (there is a reason for that XTR cliché).

However, on the same bike, same wheels, etc., I have the 38mm Barlow Pass EL (slick) and 38 mm Steilacoom EL (knobbies), and the difference on steep hills, on road, is quite pronounced. If you look closely at Jan's claim, it is that the knobbies don't have a significant rolling resistance penalty at high speed. Therein lies the problem (at least for mortals like me). If I am climbing a > 10% grade, they are quite significantly harder to push. Overall, I am 1 to 2 mph slower on my rides with their treaded tires.

Decent tires, surrounded by a lot of BS seems to sum up Rene Herse pretty well.

His testing methods are kinda derpy, so it's not surprising it produces the results he claims. More telling is that If the knobbies were actually "As fast as top tier road tires", why is he bothering to make, sell and ride slicks?

 

[William P]

My testing method is to buy the product, put on my bike, and see what it does for me.
i asked them the same question about the slicks ( but without the attitude dude). They seems to be doing ongoing R&D on these things. I think RH was as surprised by the result with the knobbbies as anyone else. Skinny high pressure tires suck. Bought tried and tossed by me personally. And the 700c disc brake wheels (CC Strados) that go with them.
I'm hoping for a grooved slick from them that will be more supple but keep the surface area as much as possible. I can't bring my self to put a full slick on an urban Ebike, sand on concrete is the main issue, painted crosswalks are a close 2nd. His starting point is skinny racing tires, and bringing that tech to Gravel and Cyclocross sizes. Fortunately for me they had some 26x2.3 touring tires also. Wide, soft and supple, without a lot of extra diameter and weight are working for me on my 2004 26" XC pedal bike. They're into selling tires to racers. i suspect they're going to do whatever is fastest. if slicks aren't it then they may fall by the wayside. I thought my Schwalbe Kojaks were going to be fast, but I never really felt it. i turns out that they are one of the slowest rolling tires tested at Bicycle Rolling Resistance.com. It took a paid membership there to access this info. They stayed on the bike because I didn't have a better idea what to try next, Until RH tires came along. RH tires score very well there, especially against much smaller tires. So it's not just their own testing that says they're onto something. Maybe if you're rolling down a hill it doesn't make much difference. The tradeoff for hitting rocks and stuff should be obvious, so these aren't for everybody. But for commuting and street / road riding the performance is there, without the hard ride. I could do without the slick tread. but on a fast Ebike more rubber on the road is a good idea so you can get the fast heavy bike stopped. Especially since braking on pavement uses only the front tire. 50+mm width get's you down around 30psi pressure, and that's where smooth ride has always been. Luxury cars, and balloon tire bikes all live there. These Extralight tires kick that up to another level and roll fast too. At a price....

 

[bpw]

Rene Herse hasn't discovered anything new really, we have known that really light tires with super soft casings have been fast for decades. We have also known they puncture really easy. There isn't any free lunch and Rene Herse has just decided to go way into the Fast/delicate end of the tire design spectrum.

Rene Herse makes decent tires in a bunch of odd ball sizes, which is great, but I would take anything they claim with a huge grain of salt. It's much more "marketing" than "testing". His tests aren't so much showing that knobs are as fast as slicks as that his tests aren't sensitive enough to differentiate between the two.

 

[William P]

Then use someone else's tests.
These guys test everybody's tires, and put numbers on the results.

Bicycle Rolling Resistance | Rolling Resistance Tests

Bicycle Rolling Resistance publishes detailed reviews and articles about mountain bike and road bike tires, which have been tested on our rolling resistance roller

www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

The rolling resistance test for RH various casings is in the PRO category. A one time fee is required to access that, and other info. It was useful to me for other reasons.
Since you object to marketing and don't believe in free lunches. Pay up for some independent testing.

Where is your superior testing method and published results??????

The thing RH has done is brought skinny tire road racing tech to a wider range of bicycle tire sizes.
As far as punctures go tubeless sealant, either as tubeless, or inside tubes has changed the tradeoff there. Reinforced tires, and flat resistant tubes never worked for me. Tubeless Sealant in the tubes has. It's not free and it's not weightless either. On my Ebike I'm working my tire weight down due to no flats with sealant in the tubes. I may go tubeless at some point.
I'm a big boy. I can fix a flat tire.

TBH I have a Tannus in the HT Ebike rear tire now. It improved the ride and control quite a bit at high speeds (up to 35mph), but it's very heavy. But I don't think it's needed for flat prevention. RH looks interesting but the full slicks are not an option on that bike, neither are the knobbies. He does sell tires for loaded touring. Similar weight to Ebikes, and just as fast going down mountain roads.

I bought his tires, in a size that suits my purpose, and put them on my XC pedal bike for testing and I find that they do everything he says they do. I'm taking longer rides, in greater comfort, using less effort. The weight savings at the tires makes the bike much more responsive and it climbs better. In July, in South FL @70yo, that's worth a lot.

I'm not quite ready to go there on the Ebike, But I am very interested. And very impressed with his tires so far.

 

[William P]

I just added tubeless sealant to the TPU tubes in the RH tires. I had a flat on the Ebike with a Tannus liner. A piece of wire worked it's way 1/2" into the tire to pop the tube.
The RH XL tires are notoriously hard to seal, and i've never done it before, so sealed tubes for me. I sealed the tube in the Tannus too. Park Tool TSI-1 is very nice for this. TPU tube + sealant probably= normal tube for weight. I have some tubeless rim strips for the RH tired bike. I may try it later.