Newb here with 2020 Trek Marlin 7. Not a senior, but getting there. Looking to raise my bars up and wondering how much it takes to make a noticeable difference? Factory bars are 5mm. What I feel is that I need height and add some backsweep to make things more comfortable on the shoulders and wrists. I don't want to go too far, but then again don't want to come up short. Looking at Deity black label in either a 25mm or 38 mm.
Handlebar height
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I'll have to see if I can do that with the spacer. I don't think I can, but never know I guess. I thought I read that I needed a spacer above the stem.
Will look into shorter stem.
Already started pulling reflectors
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It should be no problem to move that spacer under the stem. A shorter stem and/or a bar with more backsweep will also make a difference.
The bar already looks a fair amount higher than the seat, you may just want to try it awhile before making any major changes.
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Good point. Not riding a lot yet. 2.5 miles per outing twice. This is gravel road riding. I ride ATV, Snowmobile and motorcycle and while I get typical fatigue first ride out, it's not like I see on the bike. On the bike my wrists feel it pretty quickly.
If I hammer a lot or drive fence posts etc i get tingly and lose feeling and dexterity in my wrists. Same with weed wackers. I have a really nice milwaukee 18v that is handy, but I can't use it long, but give me my Husqvarna brush saw with the harness and bicycle bars (and vibration dampening) and I can go until the tank is empty. I am getting the beginning of this after just my short rides on the bike. If I can get my lights operable I'll take a ride out on the road a bit further.
Primary use is less MTB and more dual purpose since the gravel roads here are plenty stony and loose.
I'll give the spacer thing a shot. and maybe look to a 25mm rise or less and more back sweep. That and some ergo grips with heel rest may be just what I need so I can loosen up my grip a bit.
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Just FYI, when all the spacers are below the stem the fork steer tube should be about 3mm below the top of the stem. This is to allow for headset bearing preload.
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I have the bars raised up with the spacer swap but unable to get out to test yet. Looking at ordering grips (new thread) but also came across this video which seems to follow along the lines of what I am seeing:
The more I research the more I think the primary issue is the backsweep. May still need to shorten reach with shorter stem or higher bars. I think my first experiment will be with Ergon grips and see where that takes me.
The more I research the more I think the primary issue is the backsweep. May still need to shorten reach with shorter stem or higher bars. I think my first experiment will be with Ergon grips and see where that takes me.
I would recommend some light 'training' for a few weeks on that bike mostly as is, and see how it feels when you're a little more used to it before changing a bunch of stuff. If you're getting out 4 times a week that's pretty decent frequency, and they don't have to be long rides.
I ride quite a bit (5-8hrs per week), and still get stiffness in my shoulder joints on my road bike (after a few cockpit changes); lifting my elbows occasionally while on the hoods, and riding no-hands for some stretching once in a while helps loosen up my shoulders. On the mtb, when climbing I often move my palms to the ends of the bars (rotating my hands 90deg 'out') similar to how they would be when driving at the 3 and 9 oclock positions, that can be a nice little change for the wrists and shoulders, and of course while climbing I don't need the brakes.
I ride quite a bit (5-8hrs per week), and still get stiffness in my shoulder joints on my road bike (after a few cockpit changes); lifting my elbows occasionally while on the hoods, and riding no-hands for some stretching once in a while helps loosen up my shoulders. On the mtb, when climbing I often move my palms to the ends of the bars (rotating my hands 90deg 'out') similar to how they would be when driving at the 3 and 9 oclock positions, that can be a nice little change for the wrists and shoulders, and of course while climbing I don't need the brakes.
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Going to leave bars alone for now. Just grips to start.
Dumb question on seat/bar relationship. While lowering the seat the specified rise amount of a bar would change my pedal reach but should kind of get me the feel of what a taller bar would do correct? Or is this going to rotate my hips and change my spine angle significantly?
Dumb question on seat/bar relationship. While lowering the seat the specified rise amount of a bar would change my pedal reach but should kind of get me the feel of what a taller bar would do correct? Or is this going to rotate my hips and change my spine angle significantly?
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You want the seat height right, if you ride much or with intensity you can damage your knees if it's too low. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check it out for a quick ride but I don't think it will really replicate the feel you're looking for correctly. Also when you stand, which is usually a fair amount on the trail, the bars are the same.
Looking at the pics I think reach might be more of an issue than height for you. I'd try a short stem first and maybe think about more sweep later.
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Managed a quick 2 mile ride last night. Spacer change seemed to help. I think my wrist to forearm vertical relationship is good and the ergo grips with palm rest should help reinforce this. I rode thumb over for a while and this definitely felt better to me. Wish I knew what the Marlin handlebar backsweep was.
When I test rode I was on a Dual Sport and a Marlin. I liked that the Marlin felt like it tracked better and steered slower. I'm guessing that had a lot to do with stem length and if I change to a shorter stem I'll move more to DS type handling?
When I test rode I was on a Dual Sport and a Marlin. I liked that the Marlin felt like it tracked better and steered slower. I'm guessing that had a lot to do with stem length and if I change to a shorter stem I'll move more to DS type handling?
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Lots of things affect handling and feel. Head tube angle, rake, trail, stem length, bar width, etc. The Dual Sport has a lot of differences besides the stem and bars.
I'd pretty much guarantee that no matter what bike, or bar, or stem you end up choosing will end up feeling completely normal within a week and then anything else you jump on will feel a little weird.
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Looking at Trek spec the DS in L has a 90mm stem. No spec for the Marlin, but mine appears to be 80mm. This gives me a starting point if I decide to change later on.
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Best thing I ever did was install a set of Surly Sunrise Bars. Grips are level with the seat and my hands don't go numb anymore. https://surlybikes.com/parts/sunrise_handlebar
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I may have missed it, but is there a back injury involved here? If so, please ignore the following.
The best thing I ever did to help relieve pressure on my hands was to quit leaning on them so hard. A strong core is often overlooked in cycling. Doing some exercises to strengthen the core and in this case specifically the lower back would go a long way to give the hands/wrists/shoulders a break.
The best thing I ever did to help relieve pressure on my hands was to quit leaning on them so hard. A strong core is often overlooked in cycling. Doing some exercises to strengthen the core and in this case specifically the lower back would go a long way to give the hands/wrists/shoulders a break.
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I always use basic steel saw on my alloy bars. No problems whatsoever.
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Also, have you considered possibility that you saddle should be moved a few mm forward along the rails? If feeling of bar being too low and too far away can also come the saddle being too far away from pedal axle, not just from grips.
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Thought I'd resurrect this discussion about Handlebar height which is one of the things I've been working on over the last 20 years. Here are my thoughts on that and please share your own experience:
I learned quite a bit while training and racing last year, and would like to share an IMPORTANT BIKE SETUP CONCEPT with you that greatly impacts how you ride.
Precise handlebar height is more important than I realized! I made a small handlebar height adjustment and it ended up sabotaging my racing and riding for 6 weeks. Many of my students' handlebars are too high and often we lower them 10-50mm, to get them in a better, more confident position.
Often, bikes come from the shop in the most comfortable position with 20-50mm of spacers under the stem and riser bars (bars that ride 15 to 40mm higher than the stem). This feels good in the parking lot and while seated and pedaling on mellow terrain, but when you want to ride more demanding trails, it can get in the way.
In my courses, I explain that if your bars are too high it makes riding more difficult. When climbing with your handlebars too high, it is hard to hinge forward enough to keep the front wheel on the ground on steep climbs, even when you have slid your weight all the way forward on the saddle.
With high handlebars, wheelies and manuals are harder to do and tend to put you in a "hanging off the handlebars" body position with your weight too far back while descending.
The goal of finding the right handlebar height is to find a height that puts you in an athletic, centered, neutral, and hinged body position when standing and descending while not compromising your climbing body position.
(Aaron Gwin in a hinged-at-the-hips-flat-back riding position )
![1910579]( "1910579")
Reaching this goal has become a challenge as our wheels get bigger and our forks get taller with more suspension travel. For people approximately 5'6" and shorter, it was much easier to get the bar height right on a 26" wheeled bike with 75mm of suspension travel than a 29er with 130-170mm of travel.
Before we get further with bar height, LET ME EXPLAIN AN IMPORTANT RIDING CONCEPT:
Riding confidently and on the offense (riding with a focus on accomplishing what you WANT to do instead of focusing on what you DON'T WANT to do) is one of the most important aspects of mountain biking.
Focusing on getting to the bottom of the descent smoothly or quickly instead of focusing on not crashing, is paramount to riding at your best.
It turns out that HANDLE HEIGHT affects more than just your body position! A mere 16mm rise in bar height (that I thought was going to take the stress off my shoulders and allow me to look further ahead) not only hurt my position (as I teach) but it killed my confidence.
• That 16mm rise put me in the "hanging off the back of your bike" position. In my courses, I teach that too-high handlebars make it harder to stay centered while descending.
• If you think about it, that is a very defensive posture; leaning back away from danger.
• It is also more upright than being hinged forward at the hips with a flat back. Being upright decreases our stability and our ability to stay neutral (where we can react/respond better to what the trail throws at use.
Check out my "Body position and Fundamental Movement Video Tutorial"
Well, that defensive posture put me on the defensive and I spent the week of the National Championships riding scared (I managed to win but was disappointed in my nervous riding). Let me tell you this is a vicious cycle!
Start riding on the defensive and you start making mistakes. Those mistakes scare you so you feel like you can't ride well - further shaking your confidence.
Of course, I attributed this to a crash I had three weeks before, not to the seemingly insignificant change in bar height. This did feel a little weird right away, but change always feels weird so I just thought I would get used to it.
After racing the National Championships and then another regional race, I was really frustrated with how I was riding (despite winning my class).
BUT THEN I realized my handlebar height might be the culprit so I lowered the bars 10mm by removing two headset spacers under the stem.
(My handlebars in the photo below).
![1910580]( "1910580")
The difference in confidence was immediate! With the first run with lower bars, I was riding much more aggressively.
Until this experiment, it would have been hard for me to believe 10mm in bar height could make that much of a difference but, it did! It forced me to hinge a little more and more importantly: it centered me over the bike in a much more stable and aggressive position.
I often tell students that their handlebars are too high when they are obviously 20-60mm too high, but now I know I need to stress experimenting with bar height more for all my students. If 10mm can make a huge difference in body position, confidence and control imagine what 15-60mm could do.
All of that contributes to putting us in an upright and slightly back of center position: not quite in balance, not neutral, and ultimately a defensive position.
IN SHORT - experiment with your handlebar height. Go as low as you can go with your current bars. Many riders (those under 5'10 riding 29ers and under 5'8″ on 27.5 bikes) should try a bar with no rise.
Your handlebar height should help you achieve the hinged-at-the-hips-flat-back riding position like Amaury Pierron pictured below.
![1910581]( "1910581")
I wish there was a simple formula for bar height. For me, it is when my bars are about 3″ above my knee when standing and coasting with pedals level. For shorter people, it can be as high as their belly button when they are standing on the pedals.
Again, the goal is to have your bars low enough for climbing and to put you in an athletic, hinged at the hips position when standing and descending. Too low and it may hurt your back and make it hard to look ahead. Too high and you may struggle with keeping your front wheel on the ground during steep climbs and/or find yourself hanging off the back of your bike while descending.
The old rule of thumb that your handlebars should be level with your seat (at full climbing height) to 3 inches below your seat (at full climbing height) is a great place to start. In general, the taller you are the more drop from seat-height to bar-height you will have.
At 6'3" my bars are about 2.5" lower than my seat. Many riders who are under 5'6" will find it hard to even get the handlebars level with the seat on a 29r. Pro XC racer, Chloe Woodruff who at 5'2", runs a negative rise stem to get her bars lower (as do many riders under 5'6", especially if they ride 29er's).
Many/most mountain bikes are sold with the handlebars as high as the steerer tube will allow. This is usually the most comfortable position for seated riding (allows a straighter back, less hinging at the hips) and it leaves four or five 5mm spacers under the stem. This gives you 20-25mm of adjustment.
Often, I suggest a student remove all the spacers from below their stem and put them on top (lowering their bars 20-50mm) and they love it.
All of my bike setup suggestions are based on performance, not comfort! Comfort is important though - if your bike isn't comfortable you are less likely to want to ride it. If you find lowering your handlebars to be uncomfortable, give it 4-5 rides to see if your body adapts. You may be forced to choose between comfort and performance (or work on your core strength and mobility).
Lower bars will always help in climbing too, as it is easier to keep enough weight over the front wheel. With today's taller bikes most of us could benefit from lowering our bars. All of us could benefit from experimenting with bar height!
Go out and experiment. Take your time; change feels weird so weird isn't necessarily bad.
Hope this has been helpful!
I learned quite a bit while training and racing last year, and would like to share an IMPORTANT BIKE SETUP CONCEPT with you that greatly impacts how you ride.
Precise handlebar height is more important than I realized! I made a small handlebar height adjustment and it ended up sabotaging my racing and riding for 6 weeks. Many of my students' handlebars are too high and often we lower them 10-50mm, to get them in a better, more confident position.
Often, bikes come from the shop in the most comfortable position with 20-50mm of spacers under the stem and riser bars (bars that ride 15 to 40mm higher than the stem). This feels good in the parking lot and while seated and pedaling on mellow terrain, but when you want to ride more demanding trails, it can get in the way.
In my courses, I explain that if your bars are too high it makes riding more difficult. When climbing with your handlebars too high, it is hard to hinge forward enough to keep the front wheel on the ground on steep climbs, even when you have slid your weight all the way forward on the saddle.
With high handlebars, wheelies and manuals are harder to do and tend to put you in a "hanging off the handlebars" body position with your weight too far back while descending.
The goal of finding the right handlebar height is to find a height that puts you in an athletic, centered, neutral, and hinged body position when standing and descending while not compromising your climbing body position.
(Aaron Gwin in a hinged-at-the-hips-flat-back riding position )
Reaching this goal has become a challenge as our wheels get bigger and our forks get taller with more suspension travel. For people approximately 5'6" and shorter, it was much easier to get the bar height right on a 26" wheeled bike with 75mm of suspension travel than a 29er with 130-170mm of travel.
Before we get further with bar height, LET ME EXPLAIN AN IMPORTANT RIDING CONCEPT:
Riding confidently and on the offense (riding with a focus on accomplishing what you WANT to do instead of focusing on what you DON'T WANT to do) is one of the most important aspects of mountain biking.
Focusing on getting to the bottom of the descent smoothly or quickly instead of focusing on not crashing, is paramount to riding at your best.
It turns out that HANDLE HEIGHT affects more than just your body position! A mere 16mm rise in bar height (that I thought was going to take the stress off my shoulders and allow me to look further ahead) not only hurt my position (as I teach) but it killed my confidence.
• That 16mm rise put me in the "hanging off the back of your bike" position. In my courses, I teach that too-high handlebars make it harder to stay centered while descending.
• If you think about it, that is a very defensive posture; leaning back away from danger.
• It is also more upright than being hinged forward at the hips with a flat back. Being upright decreases our stability and our ability to stay neutral (where we can react/respond better to what the trail throws at use.
Check out my "Body position and Fundamental Movement Video Tutorial"
Well, that defensive posture put me on the defensive and I spent the week of the National Championships riding scared (I managed to win but was disappointed in my nervous riding). Let me tell you this is a vicious cycle!
Start riding on the defensive and you start making mistakes. Those mistakes scare you so you feel like you can't ride well - further shaking your confidence.
Of course, I attributed this to a crash I had three weeks before, not to the seemingly insignificant change in bar height. This did feel a little weird right away, but change always feels weird so I just thought I would get used to it.
After racing the National Championships and then another regional race, I was really frustrated with how I was riding (despite winning my class).
BUT THEN I realized my handlebar height might be the culprit so I lowered the bars 10mm by removing two headset spacers under the stem.
(My handlebars in the photo below).
The difference in confidence was immediate! With the first run with lower bars, I was riding much more aggressively.
Until this experiment, it would have been hard for me to believe 10mm in bar height could make that much of a difference but, it did! It forced me to hinge a little more and more importantly: it centered me over the bike in a much more stable and aggressive position.
I often tell students that their handlebars are too high when they are obviously 20-60mm too high, but now I know I need to stress experimenting with bar height more for all my students. If 10mm can make a huge difference in body position, confidence and control imagine what 15-60mm could do.
All of that contributes to putting us in an upright and slightly back of center position: not quite in balance, not neutral, and ultimately a defensive position.
IN SHORT - experiment with your handlebar height. Go as low as you can go with your current bars. Many riders (those under 5'10 riding 29ers and under 5'8″ on 27.5 bikes) should try a bar with no rise.
Your handlebar height should help you achieve the hinged-at-the-hips-flat-back riding position like Amaury Pierron pictured below.
I wish there was a simple formula for bar height. For me, it is when my bars are about 3″ above my knee when standing and coasting with pedals level. For shorter people, it can be as high as their belly button when they are standing on the pedals.
Again, the goal is to have your bars low enough for climbing and to put you in an athletic, hinged at the hips position when standing and descending. Too low and it may hurt your back and make it hard to look ahead. Too high and you may struggle with keeping your front wheel on the ground during steep climbs and/or find yourself hanging off the back of your bike while descending.
The old rule of thumb that your handlebars should be level with your seat (at full climbing height) to 3 inches below your seat (at full climbing height) is a great place to start. In general, the taller you are the more drop from seat-height to bar-height you will have.
At 6'3" my bars are about 2.5" lower than my seat. Many riders who are under 5'6" will find it hard to even get the handlebars level with the seat on a 29r. Pro XC racer, Chloe Woodruff who at 5'2", runs a negative rise stem to get her bars lower (as do many riders under 5'6", especially if they ride 29er's).
Many/most mountain bikes are sold with the handlebars as high as the steerer tube will allow. This is usually the most comfortable position for seated riding (allows a straighter back, less hinging at the hips) and it leaves four or five 5mm spacers under the stem. This gives you 20-25mm of adjustment.
Often, I suggest a student remove all the spacers from below their stem and put them on top (lowering their bars 20-50mm) and they love it.
All of my bike setup suggestions are based on performance, not comfort! Comfort is important though - if your bike isn't comfortable you are less likely to want to ride it. If you find lowering your handlebars to be uncomfortable, give it 4-5 rides to see if your body adapts. You may be forced to choose between comfort and performance (or work on your core strength and mobility).
Lower bars will always help in climbing too, as it is easier to keep enough weight over the front wheel. With today's taller bikes most of us could benefit from lowering our bars. All of us could benefit from experimenting with bar height!
Go out and experiment. Take your time; change feels weird so weird isn't necessarily bad.
Hope this has been helpful!
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I've been raising my bars over the last few years. I'm talking significant amounts like 3"+ over that period. While at certain points I have had an initial negative impression given a week or two of riding the end result is that I can ride the same trails just as well if not better plus I am more comfortable in general with higher bars for longer rides. I've been riding the same trails for 10+ years so I have a strong baseline for my performance both in terms of timed runs down the same trails and how well I clean difficult tech up and down.
I'm not saying everyone should ride higher bars or anything like that. But, I think any sweeping statements about bar height are pointless and going to be wrong quite often.
I do think people should experiment [both up and down] if they want to and see what happens. If you do make a significant change you need to stick with it for a dozen rides to really see what's what. Something that feels weird/less optimized after two rides can become really good after a dozen.
I'm not saying everyone should ride higher bars or anything like that. But, I think any sweeping statements about bar height are pointless and going to be wrong quite often.
I do think people should experiment [both up and down] if they want to and see what happens. If you do make a significant change you need to stick with it for a dozen rides to really see what's what. Something that feels weird/less optimized after two rides can become really good after a dozen.
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YT’s come with the stem slammed against the Acros headset cap and leave many owners wanting to raise the bar but can’t. The DMR Defy stem has been the savior providing 5mm rise and permitting 15-20mm spacers underneath due to the 27mm stack height. At 5’6” that puts me in the comfort/confidence range on a YT and I’d still like a few more from a higher rise bar.
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