[vikb]

@vikb, I see you got the M/L frame, but I didnt see anywhere where you said how big you are?
Im 188cm so according to Bird right at the top end of M/L Frame ,but geo specs of the M/L are really close to my Meta (except BB Drop)

I want a Steel HT (currently on a Meta AMHT), and have a list of potentials, the Forge looks very interesting to me.

I'm 5'11"/180cm with a 33"/84cm pants inseam. Looking at the Forge geo chart I am between the M/L and L sizes. Having just sold a hardtail because it was too big [not too big to sit on and pedal, but so long I didn't love riding it] I wasn't going to err on the long side again and went with the ML. That was a good choice. It feels a bit "long", but isn't excessive in that regard.

On the other hardtail I am shredding at the moment [Pipedream Sirius] I am on a medium [aka Long] frame.

Bikes have been getting longer and longer the last few years. So you may well be happy riding the smaller option. I would fire Bird an email with your current ride details and ask them for their opinion. They've sized a lot of people on their bikes.

In most bike frame ranges a typical rider can fit onto two sizes.

 

[vikb]

Great ride today. For January in Canada I won't complain about the weather! 🙏🤘

 

[cmg]

.......read it all above if you need too.......

I´m also thinking if I went this route an L is the go

I'm 5'11"/180cm with a 33"/84cm pants inseam. Looking at the Forge geo chart I am between the M/L and L sizes. Having just sold a hardtail because it was too big [not too big to sit on and pedal, but so long I didn't love riding it] I wasn't going to err on the long side again and went with the ML. That was a good choice. It feels a bit "long", but isn't excessive in that regard.
...............................read the rest above if you need to

OK, Im 34"/87cm inseam.
The Large Meta Im on feels a "little" too small, and Ive spent a lot of time comparing Geo charts and sitting on it trying to figure out how another frame would feel.
I have a list of Frames with Geo Charts of the following:
NS Bikes Eccentric Chromo
Jamis Dragon
Ragley Big Wig
Orange P7
Kingdom Vendetta
Stif Squatch
Nordest Bardino
Stanton Switch 9er

All theses Frames are cool, but all have something that I dont like.
The Forge is just beautiful, no gussets/braces, cable routing outside, thin tubing and no weird standards anywhere

its all irrelevant though, M/L and L only available in Black, but the Black imo isnt nice at all.

 

[vikb]

A few posts back I said I was done setting up the Bird and it was time to just shred. I was wrong. I took it on some harder trails and decided there was more dialing in to be done!

I'm waiting for one more part to land and I should be done. I'll hold off on commenting on the ride until then as I want to capture the full potential of the bike.

The bike is riding well as is so I've been out exploring and seeing what 's going on at higher elevations with the snow.

Gears definitely make riding easier. Not necessarily better, but definitely easier and more relaxing.

The Forge definitely has its own personality that's different than the Pipedream Sirius and Cotic BFeMAX I have been shredding the last couple years.

Snow was nice and hard so I could ride on top with 2.6" tires.

Hikers really packed down this trail and it rode better than summer since the roots were all covered in snow.

Sorry for all the bike leaning against stuff photos, but that's what you get when you ride solo!

 

[vikb]

I decided to head up towards the top of the local mountain to see what snow conditions were like. This is mid-mountain and it wasn't too bad.

Freeze-thaw effects on the soil makes it super soft/weak so I stayed on the snow in this area.

1'-2' of snow at the top of the climbing trail and some nice views. Snow was really firm so I could ride on top easily.

This surface was actually a lot of fun to ride on.

Time to hit the trails down.

The trail goes right through that pile of branches. I moved a lot of branches on this ride.

Took the limbs off this tree with my hand saw so it was easy to get under.

Reported two large trees on Trailforks so someone with a chainsaw could tackle them later.

I just need to hit this with enough speed!

Almost clear.

Super fun. In the open the trails were running like a bobsled track. That's ^^ a log ride technical feature!

Back down mid-mountain the snow was giving way to dirt again.

Lower trails were running really good. 👌

 

[yetiman71]

Great photos as always

 

[vikb]

Great photos as always

Thanks. I got tired of my phone's camera and bought a stand alone camera that's small enough to take on rides. It's been a while since I had a dedicated camera on rides, but I am appreciating the better quality photos....especially since a lot of the time I am in a dark forest.

 

[547319]

What camera did you get?

 

[vikb]

What camera did you get?

I have a consumer level DSLR with a nice fast lens that does great in the forest, but it's too big and delicate to carry on most rides. I had a shitty phone camera and just got a better phone camera [jury is out how much better for my MTB use]. I debated getting the smaller form factor of P&S vs. the still small, but noticeably larger size of the mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. I ended up with the Canon G7X.

It was on sale from a dealer so I got it fairly cheap. It fits into my top tube frame bag in a padded case. It has a large sensor for a P&S. It's cheap and rugged enough I will take it on every ride. If I were to kill it in a crash or for some other reason it's not so expensive/fancy that I would cry.

If you look at the ride photos from my Cotic BFeMAX thread those are all camera phone and the shots in this thread and my Sirius thread are almost all G7X shots.

I've mostly used Canon cameras and I don't pretend they are the best choice, but since I can work my way through their menus intuitively and they are popular so I can get a sale on them I tend to stick with them. They have also fixed two of my cameras for free when I damaged them even though it was my fault and not a warranty issue. So they have a lot of good will from me.

Canon PowerShot G7 X Review

This is where things get interesting! It's over two years since Sony shook up the compact camera market by putting a 1"-type sensor into a genuinely pocketable compact. The Cyber-shot RX100 looked a lot like one of Canon's S-series of high-end compacts but used a sensor 2.8 times larger to offer...

www.dpreview.com

 

[vikb]

My GF and her friend wanted to explore some new trails a bit north of where we live yesterday.

Turned out to be some really nice trails.

With some great scenery.

There were some entertaining tech sections and savage climbs to keep things interesting. Sorry I didn't stop for photos on those sections as we always take breaks in mellow areas.

We hit a decent amount of snow.

Mostly it was rideable though with a bit of speed.

Living in a lightly populated part of an island meant we didn't see any bikers the whole ride despite being on amazing mountain bike trails.

That's just fine by me. 🤘

 

[547319]

I am amazed at the amount of variety you have right near you. That's great! In California that picture with the green would all be poison oak.

 

[vikb]

I am amazed at the amount of variety you have right near you. That's great! In California that picture with the green would all be poison oak.

We do have poision ivy and some other toxic plants out here. I should probably pay more attention to stuff like that, but thankfully it's not so common that it's a huge problem.

 

[vikb]

I'm putting trail miles on the Bird and I'll post my thoughts on the overall package in a week or two as I finally locked down the setup this weekend so I want a bit more time on it. I figured while I wait for that I'd comment on some of the components. After the frame the fork is the most expensive and important component on a hardtail build. Top of the line products from companies like Fox and SRAM are pretty big $$ a la carte at full MSRP. Normally I can find a deal somewhere to lower the cost, but with COVID in the mix it wasn't easy to find a fork at all. Let alone get a good price.

So I was kind of surprised I found Jenson had stock of Marzochi Bomber Z1s in the travel/offset I wanted and even though I paid MSRP at least it was a lot cheaper than a premium fork. Like a lot of long time MTBers I had my share of Bomber forks back in the day, but had no idea what to expect from the current version now that they are owned by FOX other than some reviews I found online that seemed promising.

Let me get the stuff I don't like out of the way first. The decals are budget and they got peeled off right away. The gold compression dial is ugly and I'm probably going to paint that black some time soon. The "M" shaped fork brace just eats up tire clearance...especially with a large fender. It comes with a QR axle instead of a bolt on axle that I would prefer. It weighs a bit more than a fancier fork. That's about it for complaints. None of them are deal breakers and I'd rather have the extra $$ in my pocket than a different fork.

In terms of what I like aside from the price I like that the fork is simple. Especially on hardtail tweaking suspension settings to the max seems pointless with a rigid rear end. I tend to set all my forks the same - run LSC full open, run rebound fast and set the spring on the supportive side. Doing that with the Bomber Z1 has provided a very pleasant ride. I've managed to achieve the promised land of plush off the top yet supportive/riding high in its travel. I haven't messed with tokens so it's got whatever the stock setup is for a 29er fork with 140mm travel. The traction and comfort are both excellent. I like the stiffer chassis without it feeling overly stiff. It feels well matched for how I am riding this bike. The steering response is nice and the fork never feels noodly. To sum it all up I can't think of one time where the Bomber Z1 was ever doing anything I didn't want it to. It just works.

I ride my hardtails on the same terrain I'd ride my 160mm/140mm travel 29er FS bike. A bit slower and with more careful line choice when things get zesty, but the hardtails still get shreddy. So having a solid fork up front leading the charge is wonderful. In terms of ride feel the Bomber Z1 reminds me most of the 2009 Fox Float 36 RC2 I had on my SC Nomad. I loved that fork so that's a positive comparison. If I had to buy another fork today I would most likely just get another Bomber Z1. If the Z1 Coil 29er fork came in a 140mm travel I'd be interested in trying that. It seems Marzochi only sells that configuration in a 160mm+ travel option.

I mentioned the decals and gold LSC knob are ugly, but the fork itself looks/feels very well made and once the decals are gone it's a nice looking fork. When you are holding it and working on it you don't get any budget feel from it. Some people may like the gold adjuster so I can't hold that against the Z1 too much.

I've got a 29 x 2.6" Schwalbe Magic Mary on a 30mm IW rim and a RRP Max fender stuff inside the fork. The MM is a meaty tire. Noticeably higher volume than say a Maxxis DHF in the same size. With that large fender and the "M" shaped fork arch there isn't any room for a bigger tire in the front. That's okay for this particular bike, but might be an issue if you wanted to go Plus up front and run a fender.

For any Canadians out there just some 411 that Jenson will not ship SRAM or Fox forks to us in Canada, but they will ship Marzochi forks to the Great White North. No idea why, but it's a reasonable option with free shipping.

 

[Funoutside]

Thank you for that review. I've read in the forums here that 2.8 do fit fine in the Z1 & Z2, but I guess if you need some mud clearance then 2.6 I guess would be the max. You have me thinking about changing my order from a 120mm Z2 to a a 120mm Z1 now. Hmmm

 

[vikb]

Thank you for that review. I've read in the forums here that 2.8 do fit fine in the Z1 & Z2, but I guess if you need some mud clearance then 2.6 I guess would be the max. You have me thinking about changing my order from a 120mm Z2 to a a 120mm Z1 now. Hmmm

If I got rid of the fender I could fit a Maxxis 29 x 2.8" tire in the fork for sure.

 

[vikb]

Next up lets talk about wheels. I have been enjoying metal rims and other than this set ^^^ of carbon hoops all my other bikes roll on metal rims. I try not to get too dogmatic when it comes to materials for bike parts. So as I was ponder what rims to use I had a look at the Light Bicycle website and saw they made these Recon 30mm IW rims and they were available without any major delays so I jumped on a set. I had used them before in 275er size on my Pivot Mach 6 and liked them. They were light without being fragile...I bought them in 2014 and gave them to my buddy in 2021 to keep using. The shallow cross section means they aren't overly stiff. The 30mm IW hookless bead works well with the ~2.6" tires I planned to run. The cost was reasonable for a quality carbon rim. FWIW - I have had 2 sets of LB rims with no issues and I know of at least another 10 sets in my group of local riders without a single problem/failure so despite being lower cost I don't think they are lower quality. When I was waiting for this order LB contacted me to let me know they had rejected one rim during QC and would make me a new one. That took an extra week, but it's good to know they are keeping an eye on their product quality.

All my custom built wheels roll on Hope hubs. I don't claim they are "The Best!!!" or anything like that, but they work well, are priced reasonably and I like running the same brand hub so I can share spare parts. They are not crazy high POE [~8 deg], but I have never noticed any issues or wanted higher POE so that doesn't matter to me. They take a 6 bolt rotor. And a great feature of these hubs during COVID times is that I could actually buy a set!

32H rims/hubs were laced with DT Swiss Competition spokes and brass nipples. And finished off with cheap and cheerful SRAM 200mm/180mm rotors because that's what fell to hand.

I had used this 29 x 2.6" Schwalbe Magic Mary tire on my FS bike and liked it, but at the time I had a Nobby Nic on the rear and that was so disappointing. It lost traction all the time in areas where I had never had traction issues with other tires. It lasted about 3 rides before I gave it away. I grabbed a new and improved Hans Damf for the rear of the Bird. I had liked the previous version of the HD, but it had durability issues. Apparently Schwalbe has fixed that so I figured it was worth a try. The front tire is the orange/soft compound and the rear tire is the blue/speedgrip/medium compound with both being in the EVO APEX construction. Compared to Maxxis tires with the same size printed on the sidewall these Schwalbe tires are noticeably higher volume. They mated well with the LB rims and setup tubeless without a compressor.

On the trail these feel like big tires....I dare say they even have a tiny bit of Plus tire feel....both in the good way [comfortable ride] and in the bad way [slightly vague feel]. They aren't Plus tires, but if you want to get a taste of that in a "normal" sized tire these could be worth a shot. For a hardtail that'll be ridden on a lot of roots and rocks I'm enjoying the way these soak up vibrations and especially how combined with carbon rims they avoid any harsh ride feel. If I was riding flow trails and smashing berms a lot I might want a smaller volume tire, but that's not my reality. In terms of traction they perform quite well. I'd say they were equivalent to the 29 x 2.6" DHF/DHRII I am running on my Sirius. The different tread pattern hooks up a little differently, but overall I'm riding confidently over wet rocks, roots, snow and in mud.

I've got a Tannus Tubeless insert in the rear and no insert in the front. For pressures I'm at ~16psi front and ~18psi rear. Geared up with water/tools I'm around 200lbs. So far I've had no issues with flats or rim hits. The larger volume allows for some fairly low pressures. Come summer I'll probably go up 1-2psi on each end as speeds will increase and smashing rocks at high speed will be more of a concern than finding traction.

Overall I am pretty happy with the way these wheels are working for me. Combined with a longer, supple steel frame and plush fork the whole ride experience is supremely comfortable and allows me to ride confidently at speed in a very relaxed way. These wheels want to go on long rides exploring new trails and they are ready to shred whatever comes around the corner.

 

[SSsteel4life]

Next up lets talk about wheels. I have been enjoying metal rims and other than this set ^^^ of carbon hoops all my other bikes roll on metal rims. I try not to get too dogmatic when it comes to materials for bike parts. So as I was ponder what rims to use I had a look at the Light Bicycle website and saw they made these Recon 30mm IW rims and they were available without any major delays so I jumped on a set. I had used them before in 275er size on my Pivot Mach 6 and liked them. They were light without being fragile...I bought them in 2014 and gave them to my buddy in 2021 to keep using. The shallow cross section means they aren't overly stiff. The 30mm IW hookless bead works well with the ~2.6" tires I planned to run. The cost was reasonable for a quality carbon rim. FWIW - I have had 2 sets of LB rims with no issues and I know of at least another 10 sets in my group of local riders without a single problem/failure so despite being lower cost I don't think they are lower quality. When I was waiting for this order LB contacted me to let me know they had rejected one rim during QC and would make me a new one. That took an extra week, but it's good to know they are keeping an eye on their product quality.

All my custom built wheels roll on Hope hubs. I don't claim they are "The Best!!!" or anything like that, but they work well, are priced reasonably and I like running the same brand hub so I can share spare parts. They are not crazy high POE [~8 deg], but I have never noticed any issues or wanted higher POE so that doesn't matter to me. They take a 6 bolt rotor. And a great feature of these hubs during COVID times is that I could actually buy a set!

32H rims/hubs were laced with DT Swiss Competition spokes and brass nipples. And finished off with cheap and cheerful SRAM 200mm/180mm rotors because that's what fell to hand.

I had used this 29 x 2.6" Schwalbe Magic Mary tire on my FS bike and liked it, but at the time I had a Nobby Nic on the rear and that was so disappointing. It lost traction all the time in areas where I had never had traction issues with other tires. It lasted about 3 rides before I gave it away. I grabbed a new and improved Hans Damf for the rear of the Bird. I had liked the previous version of the HD, but it had durability issues. Apparently Schwalbe has fixed that so I figured it was worth a try. The front tire is the orange/soft compound and the rear tire is the blue/speedgrip/medium compound with both being in the EVO APEX construction. Compared to Maxxis tires with the same size printed on the sidewall these Schwalbe tires are noticeably higher volume. They mated well with the LB rims and setup tubeless without a compressor.

On the trail these feel like big tires....I dare say they even have a tiny bit of Plus tire feel....both in the good way [comfortable ride] and in the bad way [slightly vague feel]. They aren't Plus tires, but if you want to get a taste of that in a "normal" sized tire these could be worth a shot. For a hardtail that'll be ridden on a lot of roots and rocks I'm enjoying the way these soak up vibrations and especially how combined with carbon rims they avoid any harsh ride feel. If I was riding flow trails and smashing berms a lot I might want a smaller volume tire, but that's not my reality. In terms of traction they perform quite well. I'd say they were equivalent to the 29 x 2.6" DHF/DHRII I am running on my Sirius. The different tread pattern hooks up a little differently, but overall I'm riding confidently over wet rocks, roots, snow and in mud.

I've got a Tannus Tubeless insert in the rear and no insert in the front. For pressures I'm at ~16psi front and ~18psi rear. Geared up with water/tools I'm around 200lbs. So far I've had no issues with flats or rim hits. The larger volume allows for some fairly low pressures. Come summer I'll probably go up 1-2psi on each end as speeds will increase and smashing rocks at high speed will be more of a concern than finding traction.

Overall I am pretty happy with the way these wheels are working for me. Combined with a longer, supple steel frame and plush fork the whole ride experience is supremely comfortable and allows me to ride confidently at speed in a very relaxed way. These wheels want to go on long rides exploring new trails and they are ready to shred whatever comes around the corner.

Curious, whenever you have time. Wonder what the overall diameter/height difference is between the Schwalbe tires and the Maxis 29 x2.6. Being seem Schwalbe are higher volume, wonder if taller as well.

 

[vikb]

Curious, whenever you have time. Wonder what the overall diameter/height difference is between the Schwalbe tires and the Maxis 29 x2.6. Being seem Schwalbe are higher volume, wonder if taller as well.

I don't know that I'll be able to answer that. Measuring a wheel diameter/height is really hard without a jig as it doesn't take much side to side movement to add more error than the likely difference between the tires. The one way I can think of getting the number is to measure from the fork brace to the top of the tire. That'll tell you any difference in tire height, but not the overall diameter. I'd have to remove and reinstall a fender. We'll have to see if my innate laziness can be overcome in the name of bike nerding!

 

[SSsteel4life]

I don't know that I'll be able to answer that. Measuring a wheel diameter/height is really hard without a jig as it doesn't take much side to side movement to add more error than the likely difference between the tires. The one way I can think of getting the number is to measure from the fork brace to the top of the tire. That'll tell you any difference in tire height, but not the overall diameter. I'd have to remove and reinstall a fender. We'll have to see if my innate laziness can be overcome in the name of bike nerding!

No worries. When you mentioned how much more volume and supple the Schwalbe was, it brought up something I have been thinking about lately. I was analyzing why I like 29plus so much and after riding them for 5+ years I came to the conclusion the most important part to me is the increased roller over and momentum due to the increase height. Not the extra width or volume necessarily. I came to this conclusion after now riding a 29X2.8 for a few seasons that measure more like a 2.7 I have been digging more then my previous 3.0 setup. I was then pondering, I wish they made a 2.6 tire that was at or above the 30 inch tall mark. Was tempted to post a thread asking different heights for different brands, but did not get around to it yet.

 

[vikb]

I ran into a bit of a snag with the stock Bird headset. I'm not sure what went wrong, but I was unable to preload the bearings properly so I had a small, but noticeable amount of play in the fork. I couldn't feel it when riding, but it was easy to feel when standing still and rocking the bike a bit with the brakes applied or the front wheel turned 90 deg. I had the front end apart a dozen times checking everything I could think of, but no joy. So I ordered a Wolftooth headset [the Forge uses an oddball 34mm/44mm EC cup setup]. The WT unit dropped right in and everything was perfect without any faffing around. I'm generally not a bling headset guy, but in this case I just couldn't put any more time into the problem without losing my mind. So spending a few extra $$ was worth it.

Given the COVID supply chain issues going on I was lucky to find any compatible headsets for this particular bike. I would have preferred black, but blue is what they had. Even for me the bike is a bit too blue, but I'm just stoked to have the problem solved. The WT headset is a work of art well worth the $$ if you want something fancy or need a headset for a bike with an oddball headtube.

FWIW - Bird was very easy to work with and they refunded me the $$ for the stock headset without any complaints. Their stock headsets are a great value and I am sure the issue I had was not normal so I wouldn't hesitate to try another Bird headset down the road if I was buying a frame from them.