Perhaps the spring in the RD is getting weak if it's the original one?

Have you lubed all the pivot points on it to ensure it's not full of dirt and other gunk buildup?

 

Yes, original spring. I don't know how strong the spring should feel. It feels pretty strong, and besides, with the clutch set to "On", the cage doesn't move at all. I've never really cleaned the derailluer with degreaser. I did hose it down and gave it a bit of soapy water last month, and then squirted a little oil in the pivot points. It seems smooth enough.

 

Maybe the cable needs maintenance/adjustment? 'jumping' .....trying to jump up to 10th or down off the cassette. Try and look back there and see what it's doing. Is the cable routed properly thru the RD pinch bolt? My guess is the limit is slightly off .

 

I just checked. Cable looks like it's routed properly through the pinch bolt, per Shimano Dealer manual. Shifting is fine from 10 to 11, and back up to 10. When on 11, an additional press on the shifter to try and get the chain to shift off the end of the cassette has no effect. The chain stays on the 11th cog, doesn't move, makes no noise. In fact, when shifting from 10 to 11, you can see that the exposied cable goes from taut, to no tension...a tiny bow. In other words, when on 11, there is no tension on the derailliuer that might want to pull it back up to 10, and the limit screw is the only thing stopping the chain from coming off 11, off the cassette. Logically, to me, that means that adjustment is correct.

 

Yep, you have talent what an annoying problem. All the components are compatible? As in matching all the components to the xt 8000 groupset. It's annoying when problems occur only underload. Curious that it was all working fine. Any debris back there? My stock Ibis Ripley has 1x12 with a long cage .seems to need it with the dinner plate size cogs.

 

I just got off the phone with White Industries. I explained what I had read on some forum, that when a free hub goes kaput, the chain will slip in the smallest cogs first. He said he didn't think that was accurate. He said the bearings could be bad, but that it would take an awful lot to affect shifting. He did give me another recommendation though.
He said that just because the limit screw seems like it's set right, based on what's happening on stand, doesn't mean it's set right for actual riding. He suggested that I adjust the screw a little, and then go ride to test for the skipping. Anyone heard of this before? Easy enough to try it.

 

All components match, except for the Wipperman chain. I've used several of them, never had a problem. Debris? A tiny tiny bit of caked mud. The jockey wheels are ok too. I wore the old ones down to points! Since everything worked fine before, it seems to me that something is either worn out or broken......chipped tooth on cog? I don't see one. What about the free hub? I read that when that goes, the first cog that slips will be the smallest. I don't know why that would be though. Sometimes I lay down over 700 watts on cog 3, 4 or 4, and the chain doesn't jump.

 

Make sure the cassette is tight. A lot of bikes leave the sales floor without properly torquing on the lockring. However, a loose cassette would usually affect all cogs/gears. But since the smallest three cogs are singles, this might explain it. Oh and be sure that small cog is on properly. It can be installed on the wrong spline if you don't pay attention. A wobbly small cog would cause your problem. However, this is not very likely, as there just isn't much room to make this mistake and still be able to install the wheel.

The next thing I'd do is remove the cassette and make sure you don't have damage to the cog, cassette or freehub body. Maybe a broken, bent or damaged tooth on the small cog? Today's small cogs don't have much wrap-around or tooth engagement, so any issue with the cog may cause skipping.

 

I installed the cassette myself. I doubt it's loose, but I could check. If the small cog can be installed on the wrong spline, then how can one tell correct vs incorrect? I do have another small cog laying around from a previous cassette that I could compare the teeth to, but I think the issue would have surfaced immediately after I installed the cassette, no?

I can easily check to see that the derailleur is still tight. The cage looks straight. I'll compare the small cog to the old one I have. If that passes inspection, then I might simply buy a Shimano chain to prove the issue isn't with the Wipperman. Then I might replace the derailleur with the one that has the regular cage, not the long cage. if all that checks out, I guess I'll have to have the dealer take apart the free hub and look inside.

This is incredibly frustraiting, but fortunateky I don't use the smallest cog much. I can keep riding until I figure it out.

 

I've never experienced a freehub body failure that started on one cog only. If the pawls or bearings fail, this affects the whole cassette. But I can't say I've had any XC or Microspline failures yet, so perhaps I'm missing something.

PS A few other thoughts. Make sure the derailleur is tight on the hanger and the hanger tight on the frame. Then confirm the hanger is straight (perpendicular to the axle axis). Then the pulley wheels/jockey cage bolts tight.

 

PS A few other thoughts. Make sure the derailleur is tight on the hanger and the hanger tight on the frame. Then confirm the hanger is straight (perpendicular to the axle axis). Then the pulley wheels/jockey cage bolts tight.

Shifting probs at one end of the cassette - classic symptom of an out of true hanger and should be the first thing to check.

 

Bent derraleur makes sense. What brand hub you have? I have had to R&R mavic hubs,not Shimano. The chainring skipping or definitely the small cog? 800 miles only rules out so much. My wife wears out front chainrings and small cogs cause she likes to start her ebike in 11th gear😖 but that's a whole different story. Love her more of every day.

 

White Industries Hubs. Only skips on small cog. I don't use the smallest cog much. The bike is a Salsa Vaya, sold as a dropbar "gravel" bike. The guy I bought it from had it built up from the frame kit, also offered by Salsa. It's offered every year in steel, but once in a while they offer a titanium frame, which is why It bought it. The guy used the XT8000 groupset, together with a Jones bar. I originally thought I'd remove all the mountain stuff, sell it, and then go back to road. But after some riding, I learned to really like the mountain set up. I did make a change, I sold the Jones bar and bought the Moloko Surly bar. On asphalt or easy, packed gravel, I'm out on the "bullhorns." When I come to some funky holes, ruts, and deep gravel, I move back to the ends of the bar. The bike originally had Terravail Cannonballs in 42mm. A little wear on the tread though, and they become treacherous in slippery conditions. I changed to Terravail Rutlands in 47mm. A little slower, but a lot more secure. Sometimes they're actually faster in the rough stuff. Yesterday I rode then at 35psi in some very rough gravel and beat up trail, Made the riding much more enjoybale than the 45psi I use on better-kept trails.

 

Does your bike in stock form have a long cage? Or sold as frame only.maybe have lbs check derailleur alignment, I eyeballed it and eventually had LBS determine with pro tool that it indeed was slightly bent.anyway best wishes to you.

 

If after checking everything suggested above, check the teeth on the small cog. I had this exact same issue with a Shimano Deore M6100, 12-speed, 10-51 tooth last summer. After troubleshooting everything mentioned above (and more), I finally gave in and took it to my LBS. Although the the teeth didn't look bad to me, the LBS quickly assessed that the 10t was a fault cog and got Shimano to replace it for me pro bono. That was the first time I'd ever heard of a faulty cog, but I won't argue with results. It worked great once replaced and the LBS said they didn't change anything in the setup.

 

If after checking everything suggested above, check the teeth on the small cog.

Yes, I have an old 11 tooth cog I can compare it to.

 

I was going to say it sounds like the limit screw. I have had bikes do that, only skip when on a ride and not when on the stand at home. I found that instead of the derailleur being right under the small cog, I'd have to adjust it a hair closer to the frame to stop the skipping.

 

So I tried adjusting that high limit screw. Interestingly, and I don't know whether this is normal, I can't adjust it so far as to actually get the chain to want to skip off the the cog towards the chain. I looked very closely at the limit screw, and the point at which when backed out, it no longer is making contact with the frame of the derailluer. At that point, the jockey wheel is directly under the cog. No further adjustment is possible. Even with the cable detached. What does that mean? Dirty pivots points?

I did look into the proper number of links on the chain. It seems that my chain was two links (1 inch) too long, so I shortened it. Everything is shifting fine on the stand, as usual. I'll take a ride to see what happens later today.

I may have damaged the derailleur clutch mechanism last night when fooling with the tension adjustment screw, tightening it too much. The lever, or "switch" as Shimano calls it, doesn't seem to want to stay up, to stay engaged. It slips down sometimes. I did see a youtube video on how to fix that. It's a prettt simple mechanism.

 

I have had the small cog wear faster then cassette multiple times on Shimano cassettes. You can order just the small cog, pretty cheap. Fixed my slipping both times.

 

yeap I always have spares on hand for this issue

 

I had slipping on my old Trek with the Helicomatic and it only happened on 3/4, which were the two that I used most, with both chain rings. Once that was replaced, the problem stopped. It would happen whether I was seated or standing. They didn't look bad, but they were too worn/

 

I've had your problem even with a new cassette and chain. My XT nine speed derailleur has more than 25000 miles on it, but what I found after much searching and examination was two things that fixed the issue:
1. There is a screw to adjust the derailleur pivot spring tension that serves to set the derailleur/chain tension in the driveline. Try increasing that incrementally, but don't go nuts as it will help wear everything out faster.
2. There is a screw to adjust the position of the top jockey wheel relative to the cogs. On mine it was set so the vertical gap between the cog and jockey wheel was too much (more than the chain height), and this reduces the amount of chain wrapped around the cog. It should be adjusted so the vertical gap between the cog and jockey wheel is just a little more than the chain (so they are nearly tangent to one another). In this configuration the chain wrap is maximized and increases the load capability of the driveline.
This problem drove me nuts for about a month because slipping under load can damage your personal undercarriage.

 

I've had your problem even with a new cassette and chain. My XT nine speed derailleur has more than 25000 miles on it, but what I found after much searching and examination was two things that fixed the issue:
1. There is a screw to adjust the derailleur pivot spring tension that serves to set the derailleur/chain tension in the driveline. Try increasing that incrementally, but don't go nuts as it will help wear everything out faster.
2. There is a screw to adjust the position of the top jockey wheel relative to the cogs. On mine it was set so the vertical gap between the cog and jockey wheel was too much (more than the chain height), and this reduces the amount of chain wrapped around the cog. It should be adjusted so the vertical gap between the cog and jockey wheel is just a little more than the chain (so they are nearly tangent to one another). In this configuration the chain wrap is maximized and increases the load capability of the driveline.
This problem drove me nuts for about a month because slipping under load can damage your personal undercarriage.

I think you're referring to the B screw in your #2. I do have that set correctly. I wasn't aware of #1. I'll look into it. I'm going to post some results I had today in a moment.

 

I once had the chain skip on a Yeti SB 5 . It turned out there was a crack in one of the chain links that was causing the issue. You had to look closely to each link to find the cracked one. Replaced the chain and the problem was fixed

 

Have you had the hanger checked yet?

 

No, see post 40. I do have another, brand new hangar that I can try if I need to.

 

You can try really cranking the bike hard when its on the stand, sometimes that has worked for me to re-create the skip.
But, the reason I move the pulley a bit closer to the frame with the limit screw is so I wont get the problem that you noted by just using the cable adjuster, and having other gears not shifting right.
With the bike on the stand, you can try moving the limit screw while you are cranking it. Turn the screw a little at a time until you hear the chain wanting to come off the cog, then back off a bit.

 

In the case of a FS frame, chain growth and chain tension is what happens when you are on the bike. That can change the position of the jockey wheel a bit as the derailleur shape changes.

 

Have an assistant calibrate the rear derailleur whilst you are on the bicycle's saddle .

 

Make sure also that your cassette has not worked itself loose, or that you dont have freehub bearing slop.

 

Yes, I can check the lock ring easily enough. I'll check the bearing too when I have the wheel off too.

 

Ok, I received the Park DAG 3. In the instructions, they recommend using one section of the wheel to measure against, like at the valve, in order to avoid any issues with rims not being true. One thing the device does not account for is wheels not sitting 100% straight in the frame. I have known for some time that that's the case with my wheel. I just measured it with my calipers, and the deviation from vertical, when measured at the very edge of the rim, (just below the tire) is approx 1.5mm to the seatstay. Small, and barely noticeable, but you can see it when looking at the clearance at the seatstays. Per the Park instructions, if the probe is within 4mm at 12 o'clock, 3, 6 and 9, then your hanger is straight enough. If I'm close to the limit, I guess I'll have to take that 1.5mm into account somehow.

The Wolftooth product doesn't measure against the rim, so my "crooked" wheel wouldn't matter.

 

Followup to my last post. I just remembered that a couple of years ago, after I noticed the "crooked" wheel, I borrowed a friend's Park dropout straightening tool, and determined that the dropouts were indeed slightly not parallel to one another. I left it as is, as it was not causing a problem.

Thinking about how to take into account the "crooked" wheel when using this DAG 3, it seems to me that one doesn't have to take into account that 1.5mm as I mentioned in my previous post. Why? Well, you want the hanger to be parallel to the gears on the cassette. If the dropouts are slightly off, the gears will be "off" to the same degree. Using the DAG 3 according to the instructions, (with no accounting for that 1.5mm) will ensure that the hanger is in fact parallel to the gears in the cassette. Make sense?

 

Went out riding today. Thing still skips. Not as bad as before I straightened the naher, but it still skips.

 

Put a new 10T cog on it. They only cost a few bucks. If it still does it put a new chain on.

 

It's 11T, but yes, that's coming up. I just compared the existing cog to another that I think has very little use, and I see no chipped teeth.

 

More headaches. So i went and bought a new derailleur. Instead of getting the same long cage, I got the regular cage of the XT8000 Deore, since the spec says it's good for up to 46 teeth, (which I have) and I read that the regular cage might give more precise shifting.

So I installed it today, then proceeded to index the gears. On the stand, everything seems ok EXCEPT the low gear, the 46t largest cog. It's making noise, which I isolated to the lower jockey wheel. The chain seems to be coming into the jockey wheel just very slightly too far towards the outside (away from the wheel), and the noise is the jockey wheel teeth hitting the chain just very slightly off center and then sliding into place. Second gear seems ok.

So first thing I do is play with the B screw again, slowly adjust the derailleur to move it to the outside, all the while checking how the jockey wheel and chain are playing together. Didn't work. I adjusted B screw even as far as the chain popping off the 46t to the next biggest cog, and at no point did the jockey wheel mate properly with the chain. It looks to me like the chain line angle is too extreme. I don't know what else it could be. I previously straightened the hanger with the Shimano Jag3.

I bought the bike like 6 years ago from a guy who had it built up from a frame kit. Some things that he did non-standard was use one spacer on the drive side of the bottom bracket (Shimano specifies 2), and he used that long cage, when the regular cage is supposed to be sufficient.

I do know the dropouts are just very slightly off kilter. The tire does sit maybe a millimeter or two cocked in the frame, and at one point a few years ago, I borrowed a friend's Park dropout alignment tool and verified. So I'm wondering whether the builder used the one spacer and the long cage because of the misaligned dropouts. The long cage would push the jockey wheel slightly back, effectively lowering the angle of the chain.

This is very frustrating. I guess the only thing I can do is bring the bike back to the original layout, ( a new long cage and the one spacer) and go from there. Unless someone here has a idea. I wanted to ride tomorrow, so I'll put the old long-cage derailleur back on.

 

Swinging back.....It's fixed. 11T cog is working fine now. I installed a new long cage XT8000 derailleur, and at the same time, replaced the cable. Not the housing, but just the cable. I also reindexed in a different way, similar to what Park shows in its video.

 

Hi, having the same issue after a long trip! I had my chain broken midway through a long tour and used it for about 100km with one less link. then bought a new chain and replaced, only to start to have this annoying problem on the small cog. Since it is a brand new chain, that is ruled out. Tried adjusting the screws and also doesnt seem to solve it. What do you suggest I do next? Changing the RD sounds like too much… any other ideas? cable tension maybe?

 

Had the same problem with chain skipping only on smallest cog and only under heavy torque on the drivetrain.
WHAT DIDN'T WORK--too many hours and iterations of tweaking high and low limit screws, "B" screw, cable tension, spacers behind cassette, chain length, switching cassettes, check for bent hanger, test rides. SETUP--Sram Force1 shifter, crank/chainring, long cage rear derailleur, and new PG-1170 chain; new Shimano XT GS-M8000 11-40 cassette. SOLUTION--remove Wipperman/Connex Quick Link from chain and replace with SRAM quick link that came with the chain. Whew...Soooo frustrating! In fairness to Wipperman, I installed a used Connex/Wipperman quick link on the new SRAM chain. Didn't think that would be a problem but replacing it with the SRAM link worked. I need to test with a new Connex/Wipperman quick link to see if that works.