I am wondering if I may like an 11 speed better than my 12. I do mostly blue trails with an occasional black and even some road riding. It seems like I am doing a lot of double shifts on the trails. Just wondering if any of you choose 11 over 12?
Anyone like 11 speed better than 12?
Paul Shirek
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Yeah, understand. I just enjoy tinkering, those cranks are as cheap as chips off Ali Express, I've found them indestructable, and they're fairly light in the grand scheme of things too. Dead easy to preload/shim to the right width, clamped spline crank arm interface which I've found to easily be the best. It was just a big PITA for me to order different tooth count 3 bolt direct mount chainrings off the interwebz in uncommon sizes, and not cheap either. Now I can grab any old 64 BCD chainring from the local greengrocers they're that common, and experiment to my hearts content
They're within a couple of grams of an Alloy narrow/wide, and they basically don't wear out. I'm half tempted to try out a set of square tapers with a cartridge spindle at some point, just because 
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I like 10 speed (Advent X) better than 11 or 12.
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I'm of the strong opinion that there's no good reason to buy into 12 speed drivetrains unless you already have one. But I like the well-adopted standards all around, ie: HG, 104BCD, etc.
I also don't really buy into the range arguments myself - there are 11-51 cassettes on 11 speed. Gear spacing also isn't that much different with just one more. 🤷
I also don't really buy into the range arguments myself - there are 11-51 cassettes on 11 speed. Gear spacing also isn't that much different with just one more. 🤷
I bought a CrMo Freehub body years ago, in anticipation of that. It's still sitting on the shelf.
A little bit of anti seize on the threads, grease on the splines, don't be shy with the torque value and it's not too bad. Oh, & re-torque it again after a few miles. That helps.
shrugI bought a CrMo Freehub body years ago, in anticipation of that. It's still sitting on the shelf.
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We went SS for all of this meatsack's bikes. Only Deore 11 left in the fleet is scheduled to get an XT 46t before that bike gets sent out.
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I was more then happy with a 42 when I had a 27.5 rear.
Once I did a 29er, I.....struggled with a 42.
Thinking of going mullet, which could make me happy with a 42 again?
If you already have 11 speed, not worth upgrading to 12. But I do really like how consistently well shimano 12 speed shifts under load. Doesn't seem to wear very fast either.
Can be a tricky setup sometimes, need to make sure derailleur hangers are straight, and cables have good clean bends with high quality cable and housing (SP-41) But once it is setup right, it works really damn well
Can be a tricky setup sometimes, need to make sure derailleur hangers are straight, and cables have good clean bends with high quality cable and housing (SP-41) But once it is setup right, it works really damn well
It's not just a Shimano/bicycle thing either. Early BMW K bikes had a similar issue with eating driveshaft splines. It was just part of the maintenance schedule to drop the diff, lube the spline with a Moly grease, and ride on. Ask me how I know
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I run a Shimano 11 speed SLX/XT mix with 30 x 11-46 on the trail bike and 10-speed 30 x 11-48 Advent-X cassette & shifter with a shimano M8000 derailleur on the big bike. Both work flawlessly, give me all the range I need and components are dirt cheap to replace. Not going to upgrade anytime soon.
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I have been thinking of swapping one of my bikes back to 11spd as the current GX 12spd cassette has died and the replacement cost is huge.
as for shifting IMHO everything got worse after 11spd, but we wanted the range.
as for shifting IMHO everything got worse after 11spd, but we wanted the range.
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my Fattie is setup 32 x 11/46 (11 speed SRAM NX), and to be honest for what l do its damn perfect, I often think to go to 12 but then also ask myself why? and then forget about it
my MTB is 32 x 10/51 (SRAM GX 12 speed) which is also great, but unless lve been off the bike for a while l dont use the 51
my roadie, meh l dont know of the top of my head, although it is 2x12 Shimano Ultegra, it just works
my MTB is 32 x 10/51 (SRAM GX 12 speed) which is also great, but unless lve been off the bike for a while l dont use the 51
my roadie, meh l dont know of the top of my head, although it is 2x12 Shimano Ultegra, it just works
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10 speed what? I'd say that in general, I don't agree. There was a short-lived sram 10 speed setup that used the basic tech of their 11spd stuff and preceded it, lived for a little while along side it. That general of SRAM was the start of their 1x stuff where the quality and performance was just tenfold better than before. Shimano eventually "me-too"-ed and came up with a functional (and still far better shifting/performing) 11 speed setup than what existed with 10 speed.
The SRAM and Shimano 10 speed stuff wandered a LOT more and you had to deal with the never-perfect front derailleur. The entire system was compromised for that derailleur (like chains dropping, bouncing off the front cogs, etc.) and the shifting wandered around a LOT more. One of the things that the 1x systems did was shift into gears MUCH more solidly, with a "clunk", than the 10 speed sets before. I think shimano went even too far with this, but I digress. The 1x systems handle mud and everything else far better.
I don't know of a "finicky" 11 speed setup?
And yet up to HG+, 1x used the same chains and cassettes as 2x. You're imagining things. The only reason 2x drops chains etc, is if it's improperly set up. There's been advances made in front derailleurs, the side swing FD is a revelation in smoothness, quietness, shift effort requirements etc. A front derailleur by default, is a chain guide. My favourite system of all time is a 2x10 using the older Shimano 11-42 10 speed cassette that's no longer made, the one with the alloy carrier and I "think" an alloy sprocket or two, combined with a side swing front derailleur, and XT shifters. Absolutely magic. Super light and precise shifting, smooth, quiet, tons of gear range, handles mud and dirt without batting an eye, it just plain works. I'm still running it to this day on my Carbon XC bike, it gives away absolutely nothing to any 1x system I've used to date. Nothing. It's just plain brilliant. More clearance between the sprockets to shed mud etc than 11 or 12 speed, and really really easy to set up.
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Two by drops chains because it's in its very nature to do so, they are designed to go up and down two or three rings.
Clutch and NW rings are what gives us such good chain retention.
On genuinely bumpy terrain it's a night and day difference.
No. No it's not. It's not its nature to drop chains, that requires the derailleur to start moving sideways to do that. I currently run a single 2x steel chainring with a chain guide on my 1x setup, it (the chain guide) requires the same clearance as a FD to ensure it doesn't get chain rub at either end of the cassette, and it doesn't drop chains. I don't even engage/use the clutch, it just does its thing.
My daughter and son in law come out MTBing with me, lot's of times, they're complete MTB beginners, they also manage to ride the bike without it dropping chains. I'll admit to hearing some horrible crunching and grinding noises emanating from the bike at times as they completely mangle gear shifts etc, but it doesn't drop chains.
As long as you match the correct crankset with derailleur, stick within the rated capacity and carefully set it up to spec, it won't drop chains. Some of the bike manufacturers are guilty of not doing that on some of the lower end builds, I've come across it myself, but do it properly and you should not be having problems.
I have a few bikes in the household with 10, 11, 12spd setups. I still think my 1x10 setup with a ZEE RD, 11-36 cassette, and XT shifter is the best shifting and feeling drivetrain i've tried so far. But the range is definitely on the limiting side for me.
When it comes to 11 and 12spd, I can't tell the difference between an 11-51 11spd cassette and an 11-50 12spd cassette. They feel the same to me. In terms of reliability and durability, I haven't noticed a difference. I don't find that 12spd needs more frequent adjustments than 10spd. They both seem to work perfectly fine for me, unless I hit the rear derailleur or something.
On my "main bike" I have a 12spd 11-50 HG SRAM cassette, SLX derailleur, X01 chain, steel SRAM chainring, X01 shifter.
I like this setup because the steel SRAM chainrings cost like $10-15 and last forever, the cassette is all steel and lasts for a long time, the X01 chain lasts forever as well, and I like the feel and ergonomics of the X01 shifter. I run a Shimano rear derailleur because it's much cheaper than SRAM, and seems to work just fine. The GX cassette definitely shifts faster and smoother tho.
But I could probably find an 11spd setup that I like just as much.
When it comes to 11 and 12spd, I can't tell the difference between an 11-51 11spd cassette and an 11-50 12spd cassette. They feel the same to me. In terms of reliability and durability, I haven't noticed a difference. I don't find that 12spd needs more frequent adjustments than 10spd. They both seem to work perfectly fine for me, unless I hit the rear derailleur or something.
On my "main bike" I have a 12spd 11-50 HG SRAM cassette, SLX derailleur, X01 chain, steel SRAM chainring, X01 shifter.
I like this setup because the steel SRAM chainrings cost like $10-15 and last forever, the cassette is all steel and lasts for a long time, the X01 chain lasts forever as well, and I like the feel and ergonomics of the X01 shifter. I run a Shimano rear derailleur because it's much cheaper than SRAM, and seems to work just fine. The GX cassette definitely shifts faster and smoother tho.
But I could probably find an 11spd setup that I like just as much.
Don't take my word for it, here's Shimano's documentation on it. There's also other little things they don't mention there, from what I can gather there's little anti rattle guides built into the the rails that I'm guessing also help.
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A derailleur and chain guide aren't really comparable. Looking at your picture, you have the guide nice and low above the chain as you should.
But if you imagine the rectangle that the chain is passing through, your setup is a much more like a square shape. Chain can't go up, and may not be able to go down if the sides are close enough. A derailleur on the other hand is more like a rectangle. If you have a triple, then in the middle gear the top of the rectangle has plenty of clearance for the chain to bounce. Big ring, less so. Little ring even more space, but generally once you're in the small ring you're travelling slower.
I'd have to go a measure. I have at least two MRP devices and one E13 and plenty of front derailleurs. But off the top of my head I'd have thought they would have a wider clearance as they have to allow the chain time to derail as it swings.
Edit. I could have probably saved myself time explaining and just used an image you linked 😂
Lots of room for the chain to bounce up and off.
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