Nothing to the point of whether or not that is a source of creaking but bearing retaining compound is for that very purpose.

 

Nothing to the point of weather or not that is a source of creaking but bearing retaining compound is for that very purpose.

Yep.

OP, look up Loctite® 680

 

In our case repeated pressing in/out bearings, or riding hard on them when they are not properly torqued

I learned quickly to NOT do those things. New bearings get overpacked with the most tenacious grease I can find and everything is loctited/torqued/check/rechecked/serviced, etc. Bearings are only replaced as a last possible measure.

As mentioned, loctite 680 helps keep the bearings tight and is recommended by some manu's when replacing any bearings.

 

I want to trust you but you didn't use the little "®" symbol.

 

A lot would have to do with frame material in order for me to answer your question. For aluminum or ferrous metal a simple solution would be to use 671 Red Loctite (for a pressed in bearing or race). 680 is more for permanent industrial applications and requires more heat than the standard 671 to release.

For carbon frames I can't help you as I have zero experience working with them. I personally steer clear of bicycles having pressed in bottom brackets. In the last 15 years or so this has been a trend in the bicycle industry. Thankfully they are moving back into the common BSA threaded standard of what was seen on virtually every bike 30 years ago.

 

Are you speaking to 2-part 671? The data sheet shows a pretty similar sheer strength, but yes, 671 being the weaker of the two by about 1k psi. In any event, I've never had a single issue removing 680 for even larger BB bearings. One solid whack and the bond is broken.

More of a curiosity if you use them professionally as I've never used 671.

 

Okay I feel a bit dumb for some reason I though bearing retaining compound had a different use.

Note this is for frame pivot bearings not BB bearings. These are generally 6801 or 6802 with 21mm or 24mm OD.

And I guess I should double check before saying something else dumb, but I'm pretty sure most main pivot bearings are pressed into metal "races" that have been bonded into the frame.
My seat/chain stays are aluminum though so bearings would press right in. The creaking comes from the main pivots though, and the rocker seat/chain stay bearings only contribute to that problem when they get loose.

I'll definitely be trying the compounds mentioned above after some more research, thanks for the data and anyone with more knowledge continue to chime in.

 

Okay I feel a bit dumb for some reason I though bearing retaining compound had a different use.

Note this is for frame pivot bearings not BB bearings. These are generally 6801 or 6802 with 21mm or 24mm OD.

And I guess I should double check before saying something else dumb, but I'm pretty sure most main pivot bearings are pressed into metal "races" that have been bonded into the frame.
My seat/chain stays are aluminum though so bearings would press right in. The creaking comes from the main pivots though, and the rocker seat/chain stay bearings only contribute to that problem when they get loose.

I'll definitely be trying the compounds mentioned above after some more research, thanks for the data and anyone with more knowledge continue to chime in.

Many of my frames from years past have the green residue on them from factory install. I'm 99% sure it was 680. In any event I've used it for that application successfully for years.

Takes this with a grain of salt as I am in no way an adhesive expert. There is a member on here (can't remember his user name) that does seem to know adhesive compounds backwards and forwards. I'd also vehemently agree that sus bearing maintenance is the key.

 

I'd also vehemently agree that sus bearing maintenance is the key.

By which you mean popping out the seals and trying to clean and re-grease them in-situ ?
On a timetable or "as needed" whatever that means.

 

By which you mean popping out the seals and trying to clean and re-grease them in-situ ?
On a timetable or "as needed" whatever that means.

Yeah, I use WD-40 and an air jet to clean. I've also found that covering the outer seal with grease as a means to prevent water ingress huge. The timetable will depend on a lot of factors like time spent wet riding, design, etc. Typically I'll just cycle the pivot with the shock out and feel for any grittiness. If I suspect something is up I'll pull the pivot and spin the bearing with my hand and visually inspect. Provided there's no rust I can almost always fully revive them.

 

ime pivot bearings are rarely the cause of the creak even though it may seem like they are. Often a torque issue or something else entirely. When replacing them use a bearing retaining compound and primer like Park RC-1.

 

Same.

To keep the seats in the frame good, you want to change the bearings out before they are loose and knocking...or damaged. Damaged bearings are hard to notice though under as much leverage as a mountain bike rear suspension. This is partly due to ball bearings being ill suited to limited-rotation situations like this, but it's what manufacturers use for several reasons, including cost. Damaged bearings will eventually damage the seat, so unbolt the rear suspension every season or so and roll the bearings by hand to find roughness and damaged bearings.

If the bearings are loose enough that you need retaining compound, you got a crap manufactured frame and you are going to have just as much of a problem with bearing alignment when you put it in with retaining compound, since it's not going to be machine-straight. There's a bit more tolerance that bearings can take in this regard than the tighter bushings I was inferring above, but even still, if you are using retaining compound to keep the bearing in place it's no guarantee it's aligned correctly.

 

I've always avoided bushings, single row bearings (when I can), proprietary pivot and shock fasteners and only go with common size bearings I can get anywhere. To me, who keeps bikes forever, this is more important than gimmicky suspension designs and saves me time that I could be riding.

 

Replace the bearing before they bind up and are flogged. Then you shouldn't have to metal set them into the frame.

 

That's been my philosophy as well - Living in the PNW I replace my bearings twice a season. (I also feel that this bike (Scott Ransom) seems to be a little hard on the bearings, would love to see mfg's use something larger than 6802 for the main pivot).

However some in this thread are implying that pressing the bearings in and out often will actually lead to wear on the bore. I don't agree with that if you do it properly and torque them properly.

So it appears the loc tite retaining compound of choice is actually 641 and 609 based on this page and also a loctite page I looked at :

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Also I've heard some talk about these bearings in bicycles, but I might try the "permanently lubricated SS bearings" McMaster is showing that use a viscous gel inside of them. For some reason I can't link that exact page but you can just search on 6802

"A solid polymer lubricant surrounds the balls, eliminating the need for additional lubrication. Because it's solid, the lubricant blocks out water and dust, extending the life of the bearing.
Sealed bearings have even better resistance to dust and contaminants than open bearings."

 

Every time you remove/insert a bearing that has an interference fit in a bore the softer material will wear. This is why heat and cold are applied to parts during maintenance in commercial applications to minimize or eliminate the interference fit and therefore wear on a bore or shaft.

Bearing races are typically hardened steel and are harder than any bike frame material I know of. If they are not an interference fit in the bore then it is possible to avoid wear during assembly.

Henkel (Loctite) offer retaining compounds for different applications. Make sure you select the right one and be aware that for carbon fiber in a resin matrix on steel contact there may be a primer required to prep the carbon for the compound to be effective.

Single row radial ball bearings are not a great choice for suspension pivots that only rotate a fraction of 360 degrees and take lateral loads. They work but will wear out fast as they are loaded in a way they are not designed for. Thin-section deep groove ball bearings can only support axial loads of between 10 and 30 percent of the bearing's static radial load rating due the shallower raceways.

I think they are widely used since they are narrow and light. This is a general observation on my part based on suspension pivots I have experience with on bikes.

 

Following this as I have a three year old Canyon Strive frame with the main swingarm pivot bearing bores totally wiped out. They're so bad that on one side you can slip the bearing in by hand and still insert a .002 thou feeler gauge between the bearing and the bore, so realistically it's probably a .003 thou clearance. I'm really hoping canyon will play ball and replace the frame since this is pretty clearly caused by a manufacturing defect to me. The bearings still felt smooth too. Speaking as a machinist, I do think it would be possible to fix it, but as the OP surmised, I think doing it well would be very difficult.

 

Yes and I can't remember what the reason was however I believe they were selling them as either headset or BB bearings. I can see why they might no be ideal for BB bearings. I do remember reading a pink bike comment on why they did not work out but I just can't remember what it was. I think they may have been prone to seizing after all despite the hype. It wasn't just that thye might be draggy which is my first thought.
So even though a pivot bearing is limited rotation and might be ideal, I probably won't want to experiment with that without doing some research or calling Cane Creek.

-- on edit
I found it - search for Hellbender in the comments here https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ceram...peed-launches-solid-lubrication-technology-bearings-with-lifetime-warranty.html

Basically its like I said they just didn't last as intended, but again I wouldn't choose them for constant rotation either.

 

that pinkbike article also says Ceramic Speed woudl be offering these but they still don't show available. Might be a reason for that.

 

Anything that says CeramicSpeed comes with a super premium price that encourages a second thought.

 

I have a 9 year old vpp bike that eats bearings for lunch. When it was my main rig, bearings lasted maybe 9-12 months before seizing. I may have been rough on the bearing removal/insertion with diy tools (I have since gotten a press kit). One of the bearing seats is not a slip fit but the bearing will walk out of its seat after a month of riding. I am using loctite 609 on it with great sucess but sometimes that bearing presses out a little too easy. There is a loctite primer 7649 that you can use with 609 that makes the bond even stronger but I guess Pivot used to use it and supposedly those primered bearings were a bear to remove so I've been avoiding it. It's good to know if the 609 stops working I can prime with 7649.

 

If you're purchasing a brand new mtb, seek out bikes with better engineering and, subsequently, better warranties.

Warranties are the first criteria I look at when considering a new bike. There's a reason some companies don't offer warranties or offer limited warranties. FWIW, SantaCruz has already warrantied my bearings once and my wife's SC Tallboy frame twice (Her bike is a 2012 TB3).

 

FWIW, SantaCruz has already warrantied my bearings once and my wife's SC Tallboy frame twice (Her bike is a 2012 TB3).

The 2012 SC Tallboy was a TB1
The SC Tallboy TB2 started production in 2013 and continued until 2016 when the TB3 began production.

 

^^^^^
Okay, got it.
Sweet, she got her frame warrantied it's last year of warranty (5 years). 2015 was when SC started the lifetime warranty.

 

Still OT---Do you work for SantaCruz or something? You're really being a stickler on this. But NO, the bike was new in April 2012 and SC still stood behind their warranty in Jan 2018, more than 5 years later.

 

comments about replacing bearings BEFORE they become too loose and using retaining compound if needed are spot on - you don't want to allow any relative motion between the bearing and frame. The damage done to the relatively softer frame bore by pressing bearings in/out (correctly) is real but will be minor compared to the damage done by repeated impacts of a steel race getting hammered against the frame by steel balls if there is play in the bearing. A new/tight bearing spreads the load better, but as soon as play develops very high forces are being transmitted across very small areas. True of any ball bearing system, but the loads on suspension pivots are huge and the bearings are relatively small.

bushings solve some of the issues, but bring their own problems. The tolerances for alignment have to be much tighter, and given the number of pivot points in a modern suspension design I'm sure it's cost prohibitive to manufacture and assemble frame/stays/linkages/etc that all have perfectly concentric/parallel bores. The bushing themselves would probably be dirt cheap, but radial ball bearings can absorb enough misalignment, last long enough, and are cheap enough that we're stuck with them.

solid lubrication bearings aren't really a new technology and certainly not invented by CeramicSpeed, but CS seem to have found their niche finding exotic "new" technology and applying it to bikes for crazy $$$ and marginal to imaginary gains...

 

Ibis aluminum frames use bushings instead of radial bearings