Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
21 - 40 of 62 Posts
Discussion starter · #21 ·
Sked said:
I'm probably a better technical rider than most of you. I can ride up the rock garden at Hall with one, maybe two forced stops and down with zero.
Until you can do it without stopping, you really shouldn't brag.

Sked said:
Like most, if not all, of you, I have no idea exactly where these lands are and what the plans are and I'm willing to bet your "hero" doesn't either. He stated himself that he had no idea what leases he had purchaed. Until I have more information, I'm not going to just assume the worst. There are ways of exploring for, and extracting, oil from the ground without wholesale environmental destruction. Furthermore, these are leases, not sales. The land will still be ours.
The "kid" spent several years volunteering around various national parks in Utah before going to college in Salt Lake (hence why he's 27 and doing his B.S. degree). The reason he didn't know what he was bidding on is because the lands were referenced by numbers not locations and the kid didn't have time to prepare.

The oil won't be extracted until the price per barrel goes up, so the effect on the price will be none, especially since the current economic slow down and the lack of demand for oil is saving more oil than what's down below.

And to go further; we should focus on alternative energy rather than beating the pretty much dead horse.

_MK
 
Sked said:
I'm just sayin.
Guess you weren't a fan of the Revolutionary War or the Boston Tea Party(just two examples of many) where normal citizens had to take matters into their own hands when governments overstepped their bounds.

I'm just sayin.:cool:

By the way the land in question is part of the National Landscape Conservation System (NLCS). Its only a 27 million acre collection of the lands considered to be the "crown jewels" of the American west.

The NLCS was created in 2000 to "conserve, protect, and restore these nationally significant landscapes that have outstanding cultural, ecological, and scientific values for the benefit of current and future generations."
 
Sked said:
How about... I'm willing to bet I'm a better "environmentalist" than most of the people who contribute to this forum. I earned one of the first minors in Environmental Science ever offered by CSM.
As we all know, getting degrees from colleges makes one an expert. This is a non-argument.

Sked said:
I'm probably a better technical rider than most of you. I can ride up the rock garden at Hall with one, maybe two forced stops and down with zero.
Jesus, you must be God.

Sked said:
I just feel there is a right way to get things done and a wrong way.
If you're going to espouse your personal beliefs in public, you should at least present them with some kind of argument to back them up. You're not convincing anyone by stating, "I just feel...".

Sked said:
I feel this person is a self serving egotist and should not be rewarded for his actions.
How are his actions self-serving? How is he going to be rewarded? I would argue that the little notoriety he gains from this will be far out-weighed by any possible jail time and fines.

Sked said:
As I said, when folks start doing such things to keep us off National Forest and open space trails, and they've been trying to do just that, y'all are not going to think they're "heroes".
You're attempting to argue that the two actions are morally equivalent, which they are not.

Sked said:
Like most, if not all, of you, I have no idea exactly where these lands are and what the plans are and I'm willing to bet your "hero" doesn't either. He stated himself that he had no idea what leases he had purchaed.
How does this matter?

Sked said:
There are ways of exploring for, and extracting, oil from the ground without wholesale environmental destruction. Furthermore, these are leases, not sales. The land will still be ours.
There are ways. Do you expect anyone attempting to make money out of oil will be using the most environmental methods to extract it when there is little oversight? If you owned a house, and rented it to a tenant who signed a lease that didn't make him responsible for any damages he caused, and he rendered it unlivable, would you care that you still owned it?
 
Sked said:
This is great! I think we should have more people acting outside the law, or at least dishonestly, to prevent people who are acting within the law from doing what they want, and have the legal right, to do.
maybe Rosa Parks should've moved to the back of the bus:rolleyes:
 
Lots of folks here are speaking of the government selling land to the oil companies. Land for oil and gas is leased, not sold. There is no transfer of title for the land.

PS: Acts of civil disobedience have a long and honored roll in this countries history. Of course different people will have different opinions on those acts.
 
This guy deserves a medal!

With respect to impact, mountain biking on slickrock (or on a posted trail) can hardly be considered in the same ballbark as erecting drilling rigs. Most of the lands that are up for grabs are pristine and have been somewhat preserved for thousands (millions?) of years. As mountain bikers we should be interested in continuing the preservation of these lands so that our children and their children will be able to experience them just as they are. The Bush-Cheney legacy will go down in history as the biggest land grab for the oil barons we will ever see.

Next time you're in Moab Sked get out of your car and ride some of the areas that are on the auction block and perhaps you'll get a better perspective on what is happening. Of course there is a balance to where we decide to drill and where we don't, but the pendulum has swung so far to the right that its laughable. When the public has no say in what PUBLIC lands are raped for private benefit -- thats the real tragedy.

FR
 
No environmental impact?

Disclaimer: The views expressed below are solely the OPINION of myself and are based on my limited knowledge of things how they are. I do not profess to be an expert on the environment, the economy, oil drilling, corporate greed, or anything else mentioned below. These are merely my views as I see them. I feel the student in the article went a long way in trying to prevent (what I see as) a great injustice. I hope that whatever sentence is imposed on this man, that he will be pardoned or granted clemency by the next administration. But, alas, it is an imperfect world....

Everyone is a fan of saying that methods for getting oil are vastly improved, you can go in at an angle, etc....but one only need look at the recent Tennessee coal disaster to see how these things can go horribly wrong. I know it's coal, not oil, so it may be an apple and an orange, but all it takes is one accident, one careless screwup to see the same kind of disaster. And if a major incident occurred, it wouldn't be kept to just the leased lands. Look at the Exxon Valdez oil spill and the impact that had on the ecosystem there. Since no environmental surveys were really done, the government can't assess the potential impact the drilling would have. Also, keep in mind, there are "best practices" and there is the "cheap, easy way to do it." These rarely go hand in hand, and many businesses only care about the environment as long as it doesn't cost them any more money to do so.

There are better ways to do business. There shouldn't be a red-light special on public lands before Bush gets out of office. Any oil gotten from this area (even if you drilled the sh*t out of the entire area) would probably last our country a few months at best. The main thing is oil companies would be incurring very little overhead cost since they could refine oil that belongs to them without going through everyone else. Do they really need another 10$ billion in profits? Are they hurting so bad? Everyone wants to make it out like it's about "reducing our dependency on foreign oil." That's a joke. The only thing that will reduce it at all will be a viable alternative energy. But alternative energy needs money to research, and it doesn't pay for political campaigns.

We'll never have the capacity or the means to meet the incredible demand we've created for oil without external sources. When every mom driving to the grocery store is driving a massive SUV that gets 11 mpg, and Hummers are the cool kids car to drive, no wonder gas prices sky rocketed. And even when the crunch drove prices down, and large vehicle sales down, OPEC will cut production to try and increase demand and get those prices back up. If you think a few oil leases in the US are going to keep gas prices down, you're delusional. What it will do, is allow a select few to get rich quick, while potentially destroying some of the last great undeveloped land in our country.
 
Don't forget that Bush pardoned Texan Daniel Figh Pue III, so his concern for the environment should be self evident.

Pue, who is the former superintendent of production at Conroe Creosoting, pleaded guilty in 1996 to two counts of illegally transporting and dumping more than 1,500 gallons of hazardous sludge in a ditch.
 
I'm glad to see there's a way to support this cause. I assume that all of those who have shown such passion in this thread have already put their money behind their words. I'm curious to know who's donated and how much.

I've also been trying to find a map to show the actual locations of these leases. Rather than take someone else's word for this, I'm interested to see where the leases really are. Can anyone help? My efforts have turned up nothing of use.
 
Sked said:
I'm glad to see there's a way to support this cause. I assume that all of those who have shown such passion in this thread have already put their money behind their words. I'm curious to know who's donated and how much.

I've also been trying to find a map to show the actual locations of these leases. Rather than take someone else's word for this, I'm interested to see where the leases really are. Can anyone help? My efforts have turned up nothing of use.
There's this thing called Google ...

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/11/07/us/08lease_map.ready.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29533412@N05/sets/72157608984946845/

http://www.redrockforests.org/Moab Times Indep BLM Proposes 11 13.pdf

You're other request isn't worth responding to. I hope you know why.
 
perioeci said:
There's this thing called Google ...

You're other request isn't worth responding to. I hope you know why.
Wow! This thing you call Google is really cool.

Thanks for the links (seriously), as I stated, my efforts were unsuccessful and there was some useful information at those sites.

Concerning my other request: No. I don't know why. Perhaps you could explain. After all, as many of you have pointed out, I'm pretty brain-dead. I just figured with all the passion displayed in the posts, there would be many of you willing to donate to this cause and eager to let others know of your good deeds.

P.S. That should be your, not you are.
 
Sked said:
Wow! This thing you call Google is really cool.

Thanks for the links (seriously), as I stated, my efforts were unsuccessful and there was some useful information at those sites.

Concerning my other request: No. I don't know why. Perhaps you could explain. After all, as many of you have pointed out, I'm pretty brain-dead. I just figured with all the passion displayed in the posts, there would be many of you willing to donate to this cause and eager to let others know of your good deeds.

P.S. That should be your, not you are.
"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." -Mark Twain

You're asking private citizens to disclose what they do with their own money. Seems very un-conservative to me, and your inference is disingenious. Not donating to DeChristopher's particular cause does not make one a bad environmentalist, nor does it make one who believes in his cause a hypocrit. Also, you're asking people who in most cases participate on this forum anonymously to answer such a question honestly. That seems a little naive to me. Finally, I'm usually not here to self-aggrandize. You may confuse my contrariness with that, but that probably has more to do with the way you view the world than with my intent. Passion for environmental conservation is not necessarily an act of selfishness, despite what a Conservative-Objectivist might believe.
 
21 - 40 of 62 Posts