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Outbound Lighting --- Hangover --- Discussion

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#861 · (Edited)
prj71 said:
The Helmet could be improved upon though. Not sure why they went with an adhesive mount instead of strap on mount that can be used on other helmets. Ultimately the price is way too much for "a light" IMO.
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This argument is ridiculous. What stops you buying a gopro mount with straps, except your lazyness to search for one? Since you like the global economy, you can buy them for a few dollars on aliexpress or banggood.
prj71 said:
I know this because I ride with a few folks that have Outbound Lights. Not any better than the Fenix bike lights I own or the Night Rider lights that a few of my other friends have.
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prj71 said:
Have you used the Fenix bike light and compared it next to an Outbound? I have. Not any better, not any worse. Just different and way more expensive.
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Well, you could be helpful to the community and post beam shots on your trails from the fenix and the outbound. But you don't want to be helpful, you just want to critize. So i had to search the www for beamshots and videos of the fenix bc30v2. This light has too much light in front of the tire, no proper brightness layering, the beam is next to your handlebar much narrower than any outbound light.

prj71 said:
Some may not think the replaceable battery is necessary, but I ride in the winter months at night when the cold takes a toll on batteries. With the Fenix I can carry 2 extra 18650 batteries with me and then swap them out and keep riding. With the Outbound you can't do that, but you can do pass through charging which means you need to carry a big charge pack around.
Last winter riding with 2 friends...their Outbound handlebar light died and they didn't have anything with them to charge the light. Luckily their helmet lights (not Outbound brand) were enough to finish the ride. My light has died a few times on a ride also, but a simple battery switch and I'm good for another 2-1/2 - 3 hours.
Click to expand...
So you want to make the manufacturer responsible for bad planning of your friends? They knew their lights do not allow to swap the battery, there are runtime charts available and it is common knowledge - at least since tesla pushed into the car market - hat the usable capacity in cold is less than at ambient/room temperature. Why didn't they use lower output mode if the ride is longer than the runtime? Why didn't they use a powerbank to extend runtime via pass-through charging? I doubt that your friends would have taken spare batteries with them as you did, so their fenix just would have died as well..


To Conclude:
Outbound lights are not for every one and every situation the best. Some prefer external batteries, some prefer swapable batteries, others prefer lights with remote control. Some value production in their home country, others doesn't. What you do not understand at all is the time and costs involved designing an individual optic (and not take some stock optics and mix them until you have a somewhat suitable beam pattern like nearly all chinese and many other manufacturer do), and the designer of the optics lives in America.
Also, not everyone rides trails where an outbound light can fully show its advantages in beam pattern over other lights, and that is again totally ok. But stating generally that their beam pattern is not any better than fenix or night rider is ridiculous. Personal preferences are the most valid points for making a decision on which bike light to use, but why troll a thread for features of a light, that you just do not like and others obviously like?
prj71 said:
Now you just need to work on the price of the lights. Way too expensive!!
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this was the most useless post i have read in a long time...
prj71 said:
Nothing wrong with honesty
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yep, so to be honest: please stop trolling this outbound thread until you provide helpful content for the community, i.e. above mentioned comparative beamshots at one or two representative spots of your trails (which i would find very interesting).
 
#862 ·
xcandrew said:
Adaptive mode is like a less bad version of how all those "enthusiast" flashlights (candlepower or budget light forum) work. They are made that way for bragging rights. . . to claim that lights can really only sustain 300 lumens are "1500 lumen" lights even though they can do that only for 30 seconds.
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That is bs. The adaptive mode is made with intent, which outbound has described, and the lights have constant high modes where no dimming is happening. There is no reason to claim the adaptive mode from outbound is used as "boasting to customers".

xcandrew said:
I wouldn't use adaptive because why introduce brighter light to your eyes that have your pupils close down at the beginning? It's arguing cause and effect. The brightness at the beginning is causing the adaptation effect as it dims down later.
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I don't know how you usually start your rides, but my typical understanding of the start of a ride is the following: i am leaving my well lit house/flat, get in the well lit garage/basement to make the bike ready and start my ride. At this point, my eyes are adapted to max brightness. So it is very helpful, if the adaptive mode is bright at the beginning. Sometimes people use the car to get to the trails, so their eyes are still adapted to pretty bright headlights.
I am convinced that only a minority of people waits 3-5 min in complete darkness at the start of the trail to adapt their eyes to darkness (then the adpative mode is indeed not helpful).
 
#863 ·
biking_tg said:
...I am convinced that only a minority of people waits 3-5 min in complete darkness at the start of the trail to adapt their eyes to darkness (then the adpative mode is indeed not helpful).
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There also seems to be at least one guy at every night ride that blasts everyone in the face with his helmet light right before the ride rolls out.
 
#864 ·
biking_tg said:
That is bs. The adaptive mode is made with intent, which outbound has described, and the lights have constant high modes where no dimming is happening. There is no reason to claim the adaptive mode from outbound is used as "boasting to customers".


I don't know how you usually start your rides, but my typical understanding of the start of a ride is the following: i am leaving my well lit house/flat, get in the well lit garage/basement to make the bike ready and start my ride. At this point, my eyes are adapted to max brightness. So it is very helpful, if the adaptive mode is bright at the beginning. Sometimes people use the car to get to the trails, so their eyes are still adapted to pretty bright headlights.
I am convinced that only a minority of people waits 3-5 min in complete darkness at the start of the trail to adapt their eyes to darkness (then the adpative mode is indeed not helpful).
Click to expand...
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough that I'm not saying that the Outbound is doing it for bragging rights, more so the flashlight world in general where it's common for the start up lumens to be several times the sustainable lumens. Adaptive isn't misleading because Outbound shows you the runtime graph, so it's not bragging, but it is a choice I disagree with. It does the thing I don't like and to me, is akin to those everyday battery powered lights in that mode. Adaptive is actually most similar to old unregulated incandescent lights running on alkaline batteries that I wanted something better than in the '90s.

I'm convinced adaptive only exists because the battery capacity is not unlimited. Otherwise, why don't car headlights work that way? Get dimmer as you drive so your eyes can become more adapted to the dark the longer you drive? Doesn't that sound ridiculous?

I really don't think your eyes would struggle if there was a constant level that runs 2-2.5 hours that replaced adaptive. It would start lower than adaptive, but would be close to 1000 lumens, about 2x the medium lumens. Do you really think your eyes would struggle with 1000ish lumens at the start of a ride?

Driving in the dark is not that bright and most car headlights aren't dilating your pupils any more than a bike light.

Half of my outings straddle sunset, so start in the light and finish in the dark. I generally start from my house. I have middle-age eyes that don't work in the dark like they used to, but I've never had to wait 3-5 minutes to let my eyes adapt when I actually have an even weak light. The point of having a quality light is so your eyes don't have to adapt to the dark. Even 500 lumens (the medium in the Portal) is good enough for that. In fact, the last couple years , I've been getting away with using a single 18650 headlamp that only does 500ish for 2 hours and that's the single setting I use. (Though planning on getting a true replacement for my busted Gemini Duo and Yinding).
 
#865 ·
xcandrew said:
I'm convinced adaptive only exists because the battery capacity is not unlimited. Otherwise, why don't car headlights work that way? Get dimmer as you drive so your eyes can become more adapted to the dark the longer you drive? Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
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Well,i am convinced that they do this because they think it is a useful feature. I have a Detour and i prefer fixed modes as well, but i still think outbound lights are very well designed.

xcandrew said:
I really don't think your eyes would struggle if there was a constant level that runs 2-2.5 hours that replaced adaptive. It would start lower than adaptive, but would be close to 1000 lumens, about 2x the medium lumens. Do you really think your eyes would struggle with 1000ish lumens at the start of a ride?
Click to expand...
probably not, but as said above, there is a reason for the adaptive mode. If i wanted an 2-2.5 hour mode and adaptive gives me that runtime, i'd use it. And about 1000 lm being twice the amount of lumens of medium: the eye doesn't work linear, but logarithmic. So twice the lumen is not twice as bright, it is actually only Sqrt(2)= 1.4 times brighter. I am not saying this because i blindly believe Outbound. I have Lupines where i can set the wattage to any level i want, so i can verify the logarithmic sensitivity of eyes.
In your case, as you are in the states: buy the light, test whether the 500 lm mode is sufficient and whether you can ride with the adaptive mode. If not, use Outbounds 30 day money back guarantee. (since i live overseas from the states, shipping costs are just too high for such an experiment (and the hassle with reclaiming customs and VAT), and i really do not need the new portal)
 
#866 · (Edited)
biking_tg said:
the eye doesn't work linear, but logarithmic. So twice the lumen is not twice as bright, it is actually only Sqrt(2)= 1.4 times brighter. I am not saying this because i blindly believe Outbound. I have Lupines where i can set the wattage to any level i want, so i can verify the logarithmic sensitivity of eyes.
In your case, as you are in the states: buy the light, test whether the 500 lm mode is sufficient and whether you can ride with the adaptive mode. If not, use Outbounds 30 day money back guarantee. (since i live overseas from the states, shipping costs are just too high for such an experiment (and the hassle with reclaiming customs and VAT), and i really do not need the new portal)
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm well aware of that, being an engineer, being on various light forums for 25ish years, and being an extreme user, using lights for 2 hrs nightly almost half the year in Alaska.

That doesn't mean 500 lumens is near as good as 1000 lumens. You will particularly notice the difference in situations when the environment is not reflecting the light back to you. You may have noticed this driving on black asphalt in the rain on really dark nights without lane markers, and you can hardly see the road edges. I notice it a lot in the woods in the fall when it's wet out, and 1000 lumens just gets sucked away and seems more like 50 lumens. I'm perfectly happy with 500 lumens on snow (mostly. . . windblown snow in a blizzard can be surprisingly non-reflective and require a lot of lumens to make out where you are going), but the the darkest, wet, rooty woods, when I'm straining to see the roots that I might trip over, there's a big difference between 500 and 1000 (and I want more like 2000+).

I'm not buying the light, not because I don't like Outbound. I've asked them in the past if they would do a headlamp, but they said they are focused on bike light designs. I'm on xc skis in the winter and trail (xc) running in the dark fall, so I only buy lights that work well on headstraps instead of helmets or handlebars. (My xc biking is really mostly a summer thing now that I don't have a commute). The Gemini Duo/Yinding clone worked great on headstraps because of the compact size and remote battery, but the battery-in-head designs cantilevered forward of the mount don't look like they can be adapted to work well on headstraps. My next bright light is going to be from a maker that does orienteering lights, like Lucifer or LEDX.
 
#867 ·
Tried my hangover out for the first time last night (just a quick ride) and I'm pretty happy with it! (especially compared to what I had been using on my helmet!)

Rather curiously, when I attached the thing to the top of my helmet it reminded me of the lights on the spacesuits in Alien! :D

Image
 
#869 · (Edited)
biking_tg said:
This argument is ridiculous. What stops you buying a gopro mount with straps, except your lazyness to search for one? Since you like the global economy, you can buy them for a few dollars on aliexpress or banggood.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking at the price charged for these lights, they would offer a better helmet mount that can be moved to different helmets. Instead we get an adhesive one that locks you into one helmet unless you buy multiple adhesive mounts to work with the outbound light.

Well, you could be helpful to the community and post beam shots on your trails from the fenix and the outbound. But you don't want to be helpful, you just want to critize. So i had to search the www for beamshots and videos of the fenix bc30v2. This light has too much light in front of the tire, no proper brightness layering, the beam is next to your handlebar much narrower than any outbound light.
Click to expand...
Just seeing this now. Rode with a friend Friday evening who was using an OB light. We stopped for a break side by side and our lights were pointed ahead. Visually they both appeared to light up the trail very well with no real discernible difference.

So you want to make the manufacturer responsible for bad planning of your friends? They knew their lights do not allow to swap the battery, there are runtime charts available and it is common knowledge - at least since tesla pushed into the car market - hat the usable capacity in cold is less than at ambient/room temperature. Why didn't they use lower output mode if the ride is longer than the runtime? Why didn't they use a powerbank to extend runtime via pass-through charging? I doubt that your friends would have taken spare batteries with them as you did, so their fenix just would have died as well..
Click to expand...
Run times published are at optimum temps...Usually between 68 and 72 degrees. Majority of our night riding during the winter is in temps of 10-30 degrees so the run time is all over the board. My point about carrying extra batteries and being able to swap them out, is that carrying around a couple of 18650 lithium batteries is less cumbersome than carrying around a large powerbank with a usb cord running from it to the light and then having to find a place to store it (such as a top tube bag) when riding.


To Conclude:
Outbound lights are not for every one and every situation the best. Some prefer external batteries, some prefer swapable batteries, others prefer lights with remote control. Some value production in their home country, others doesn't. What you do not understand at all is the time and costs involved designing an individual optic (and not take some stock optics and mix them until you have a somewhat suitable beam pattern like nearly all chinese and many other manufacturer do), and the designer of the optics lives in America.
Also, not everyone rides trails where an outbound light can fully show its advantages in beam pattern over other lights, and that is again totally ok. But stating generally that their beam pattern is not any better than fenix or night rider is ridiculous. Personal preferences are the most valid points for making a decision on which bike light to use, but why troll a thread for features of a light, that you just do not like and others obviously like?
Click to expand...
Bike lights and flashlights of some sort have been around for years. Some have a concentrated light, some have a beam that's more spread out. Not sure I'm convinced a lot of cost and design time went into the "lighting" aspect that makes it revolutionary.
 
#870 ·
prj71 said:
I'm thinking at the price charged for these lights, they would offer a better helmet mount that can be moved to different helmets. Instead we get an adhesive one that locks you into one helmet unless you buy multiple adhesive mounts to work with the outbound light...
Click to expand...
Well then it's a good thing GoPro style mounts are dirt cheap and available in a practically limitless number of styles.

And it's nice of Outbound to sell multiple versions of their base for a quite reasonable $5, and to provide extensive lists of helmet compatibility for each style of base.

But hey I'm sure whatever janky strap-on you are using now is a much slicker system. 🤦
 
#871 ·
prj71 said:
I'm thinking at the price charged for these lights, they would offer a better helmet mount that can be moved to different helmets. Instead we get an adhesive one that locks you into one helmet unless you buy multiple adhesive mounts to work with the outbound light.
Click to expand...
I'm relieved to go from a Velcro strap mount to an adhesive base. It's so solid, like part of the helmet. And if I want a spare mount, a wider one, or a more curved one, they're only five bucks . . . peanuts.
 
#872 ·
Dkayak said:
I'm relieved to go from a Velcro strap mount to an adhesive base. It's so solid, like part of the helmet. And if I want a spare mount, a wider one, or a more curved one, they're only five bucks . . . peanuts.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
I much prefer the adhesive mount.
If you want more than one spare you can get 5 or so of them on Amazon for $10.
 
#873 · (Edited)
Velodonata said:
Well then it's a good thing GoPro style mounts are dirt cheap and available in a practically limitless number of styles.

And it's nice of Outbound to sell multiple versions of their base for a quite reasonable $5, and to provide extensive lists of helmet compatibility for each style of base.

But hey I'm sure whatever janky strap-on you are using now is a much slicker system. 🤦
Click to expand...
It actually works pretty good. Solid and doesn't move. Plus I can move it to different helmets for different uses.

cateyeamerica.com

Helmet Mount

The CATEYE Helmet Mount securely attaches to most vented-style bicycle helmets with a secure Velcro closure and durable reinforced plastic construction. Featuring an angular adjustment bolt to adjust the headlight beam angle for road or trail riding, it is also compatible with all CATEYE...
cateyeamerica.com cateyeamerica.com

What I really like about Outbound is their handlebar mount. That's a slick design!!
 
#877 ·
prj71 said:
Eventually helmets have to be replaced. So when that happens you have to buy a new mount. I know they are only $5 but still...
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Well, in the scenario I wrote, one would just take the strap type mount off the helmet to be disposed of and use it with the new helmet. My point being, rather than move one strap type mount among different helmets, I'd just get additional strap type mounts for all the helmets. That avoids the time waste of moving a mount, or the likelihood that I grab the helmet that didn't have the mount on it and arrive at the trail only find out I'm not going to be able to use my helmet light.
 
#878 ·
Before I had my Outbound lights, I had a NiteRider with a strap for my helmet. I found it annoying as I didn't want it on for daytime riding so I had to put it on each time for a nighttime ride. I prefer the gopro stick on mount as it's a non-issue during the day and always ready for a night ride.
 
#879 ·
BarryR said:
Before I had my Outbound lights, I had a NiteRider with a strap for my helmet. I found it annoying as I didn't want it on for daytime riding so I had to put it on each time for a nighttime ride. I prefer the gopro stick on mount as it's a non-issue during the day and always ready for a night ride.
Click to expand...
When daytime riding I don't even notice that the strap/light mount is on my helmet. 🤷‍♂️
 
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