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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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HANGOVER

Note! A lot of the content here is almost 3+ years old now (as of January 2022). Please check the website and some of these pages for the most recent information on Hangover!

Hangover Product Listing Here:

https://www.outboundlighting.com/products/hangover

How to mount your light to different helmets:
How to mount a bike helmet light on different helmets?


Original post:

We heard you.

We know you wanted a self-contained helmet light for a long time.

We know we can improve on what's out there. We can be lighter, charge faster, and maintain the output more consistently.

So we set out to develop a light, and like the Trail and Road Edition, we thought about a helmet light from the ground up rather than adapting an existing light to fit the role.
Product Electronic device Input device Peripheral Computer accessory

[HR][/HR]
This is how we did it:
For starters, we developed the optic in-house, from the ground up. You can't have a great light without a great optic, so we put hundreds of hours into simulation and prototypes to develop a beam pattern that fills your entire field of view with the light you need, not just a spot down the trail.

The silicone TIR optic uses microfacets to finely tune the beam shape, eliminating the typical "round hotspot" edges by redirecting portions of the beam to where you need it most, creating a dramatically smoother beam. Creating a Light Carpet around your periphery allows you to see and react to the whole trail and not get "tunnel vision" with harsh edges. The smoother the beam, the less strain on your eyes, the better you can see and the more comfortable your night ride is.


Then we focused on packaging. We absolutely wanted this to be the slimmest and lightest light on the market. So light you don't even notice it on your head. So we put the battery sideways, used lightweight magnesium for the heat sink, lightweight optical silicone for the lens, and an over-molded poly-carbonate shell to form the top half.

The result is an incredible 100 grams total weight. Absolutely unheard of for a high powered light.

Combine that featherweight with the fact that we can run this light at 2 hours of runtime and you start to wonder what else you could possibly need.

[HR][/HR]
No excuses anymore: Full charge in 1 hour

Think for a second, how many times have you or a friend said "I can't ride tonight, I forgot to charge my lights." Typical bike lights take 3 hours to charge IF you paid for the "fast charge" feature, 6 hours if you didn't.

With the Hangover, you can get an hour of runtime in just 30 minutes, and a full charge in an hour thanks to standard USB-C charging. That means you can plug it in while you're getting ready, or driving to the trail, and be ready to go.

[HR][/HR]
American Made Quality.

Like the Trail and Road Edition, these lights are built in our Chicago workshop. We put a massive amount of engineering work into making sure we can assemble our lights quickly, accurately, and with the highest quality to ensure that we keep production stateside for years to come. Backed with a no-questions-asked warranty and amazing customer service. We want you to be a customer, a friend, and an Outbound rider for life.

[HR][/HR]
What is included?

  • Hangover Light
  • USB-C charging cable
  • GoPro Helmet Mount

Electronic device Text Technology Font Electronics

Prototype shown:

[HR][/HR]

Much like the Kickstarter we ran a year and a half ago to start Outbound Lighting, we are running a limited pre-order with the greatest savings to be had if you pre-order before June 25th.

We are running our pre-order for $99 with free shipping. MSRP will be $140 when we are shipping in the fall. Like Kickstarter we will be sending out updates as they arise for production and launching.

https://www.outboundlighting.com/hangover/

This light definitely represents an evolution in our product design. We've learned a lot since the first launch of the Focal Series last year. This is designed to be the perfect compliment to the Trail Edition.

The beam pattern is not as wide as the trail, but provides the extra punch that many have wanted. We are not resorting to crazy output charts to try and have peak numbers that look great for marketing, instead relying on what made the Trail and Road Edition great, the beam pattern, simple UI, and great runtimes.

The USB-C charging is the another massively great feature. Can get 1 hour of runtime with 30 minutes of charging, a full charge in 60 minutes. The battery is a high quality LG Chem 18650 that is paired well with our driver to provide not only a quick charge, but also a good, steady and predictable discharge.

The part assembly was reduced a lot compared to the Focal Edition, which helps us bring the cost down (also going from 4 batteries to 1), we can make these much quicker as we intend for this to be a better product than the Lumina, Urban, and other self-contained battery options out there.

The feel of the light is amazing. The TPU overmold that not only helps waterproof the light entirely, also feels extremely high quality, won't slip in your hands, and is easy to work with. Super proud of how nice this light feels.

The mounting allows for this to tuck closely to the helmet, keeping weight close to your head as well as out of harms way from branches and foliage. The total weight is 100g, for reference a GoPro Hero5 with the frame to mount things is 140g.

Want to get in on the pre-order? Here's a direct link:

Hangover Bike Helmet Light

Let me know any questions you may have!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sounds great! Is the battery user replaceable/swappable? Inaccessible & sealed inside? Proprietary? Beamshots available?

-Garry
Battery will be replaceable. Not field replaceable or hot swappable but easy enough to do on a kitchen table with the right tools (M2 Hex bit). The connector is an actual connector, not soldered joints.

That reminds me of another point. You'll be able to use the light while charging. Aka run a battery pack on your helmet and have it feed this light to really have some crazy runtimes.
 

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Battery will be replaceable. Not field replaceable or hot swappable but easy enough to do on a kitchen table with the right tools (M2 Hex bit). The connector is an actual connector, not soldered joints.

That reminds me of another point. You'll be able to use the light while charging. Aka run a battery pack on your helmet and have it feed this light to really have some crazy runtimes.
Use while charging..... now that is super cool.

Awesome. Ok, now redesign the trial and the road to be self contained with the same option to be used while charging. :). That would be icing on the cake to have all the lights self contented and the user can Make the decision if they need super long times then they can connect a charging battery pack like Anker etc.
 

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Use while charging..... now that is super cool.

Awesome. Ok, now redesign the trial and the road to be self contained with the same option to be used while charging. :). That would be icing on the cake to have all the lights self contented and the user can Make the decision if they need super long times then they can connect a charging battery pack like Anker etc.
Thumbs up for this, that would be realy awesome! Even though i already have road light! What i realy expect from Matt in the future is a road light with a high and low beam and a remote. And with something like mentioned above ofc.
Great job being in the 100g weight
Light looks great, i have no doubts in the quality.
I dont do mtb right now but this light looks so nice and i am a big fan of your work so i just might get it anyway

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
 

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I see the mode button is top mounted which is perfect :thumbsup:. I may have missed it but am interested in what the IU program is, 3 or 4 mode levels @ what output levels? Light must be very efficient to get 2 hrs. @ 850 lumens from a single 3350 18650 battery which should also squeeze bonus time out of whatever power source was being used for the USB charging while in operation feature making for some super long runtimes! Curious if you think the beam pattern will also work well if the light is bar mounted? I'm impressed! Transferring money to my paypal account. Just need to decide if one of these will be enough.
Mole
 

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Standard USB charging meaning USB-PD?

I think you nailed the price, looks great! Charging while running and using USB is a great feature
 

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It looks great and I will be ordering one at least. But will you offer any package deals? With your other lights or maybe buy two get better pricing? Before I order just wanna get the best deal I can. not that the pre-order deal isn't great just like to know options. Thanks.
 

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I see the mode button is top mounted which is perfect :thumbsup:. I may have missed it but am interested in what the IU program is, 3 or 4 mode levels @ what output levels? Light must be very efficient to get 2 hrs. @ 850 lumens from a single 3350 18650 battery . . .
Mole
Hmm . . . I missed the 850 lumens spec. I know lumens aren't everything (and Matt has proven this), BUT I am wondering if the 850 max is going to be enough, coupled with the fact that this 850 lumens is being spread out to create that "light carpet" and not all focused down the trail? I'm 'wondering how this will compare to a dual XM-L2 light with spot optics pushing 1200 to 1500 lumens.

Field replaceable/swappable battery would have been great, but I'll accept the ability to run from a USB power bank.

-Garry
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'll try to get all the answers here in a bit. But please keep in mind that the design target for this light was to compete with the typical self contained lights on the market. A light head with 1500 lumens and an external battery will be better than this, no doubt. That's why the Road Edition is still a great light to have on the head for maximum performance.

We had dozens, if not hundreds of people saying they wanted a light without an external battery pack. So this is our first answer, as well as hitting a lower price point. We didn't comprise on the driver setup or LEDs. The savings comes from less batteries, no wall charger, no case, cheaper shipping, better part consolidation and insanely fast assembly time.

We also aren't resulting to the typical "start blindingly high and pull power fast" tactics that many manufacturers do to get high lumen numbers. All our numbers are calculated with steady state burn or very close to it. So when you turn on the light you aren't going to lose 50% of that claimed lumens in 10 minutes. That's why I hate the FL1 standard.
 

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I'll try to get all the answers here in a bit. But please keep in mind that the design target for this light was to compete with the typical self contained lights on the market. A light head with 1500 lumens and an external battery will be better than this, no doubt.
Nice work, Matt. I ordered mine already, based on my experience with being a backer and user of the Trail Edition light. I like the less is more philosophy of maximizing performance with better engineering. That said, I am happy with the performance of my current Gloworm X2 helmet light and I have never been a fan of self contained lights for off-road use. But for only 10g more than the X2 lighthead, I am looking forward to seeing how the Hangover compares and what it's limitations are. Even if it doesn't supplant the X2 as my primary helmet light I will definitely have a use for it. It may become my usual first choice, or an option for certain trails and conditions, or for urban rides. Choices are good, and the correct number of lights to choose from is always n+1.
 

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Seems like a nice work Matt! Looking forward to see some beam shots! What is the color temperature of the CREE's, cool white or more towards neutral white? How does the color temperature compare to the focal series? Do you plan to offer a warm or neutral white and cold white version? Furthermore, is your new light airtight or similar to the focal series equipped with a membrane? I am tempted to order the light although i do not have the need for it..
 

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How does the mount affix to the helmet?

I may have missed it in the description.

The photos on the website make it appear as if the mount attaches with sticky tape.
 

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........We also aren't resulting to the typical "start blindingly high and pull power fast" tactics that many manufacturers do to get high lumen numbers. All our numbers are calculated with steady state burn or very close to it. So when you turn on the light you aren't going to lose 50% of that claimed lumens in 10 minutes. That's why I hate the FL1 standard.
Thank you for that!!!!

One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Standard USB charging meaning USB-PD?

I think you nailed the price, looks great! Charging while running and using USB is a great feature
Here's a response from the EE on the USB charging side:

"We're not using USB PD (Power Delivery), we're using USB QC (Quick Charge) protocol. QC enables 5V/3A charging from a large range of chargers without any weirdness in the communication, so if you have a USB charger than can put out 15W, you'll get full power no matter what. PD would be great to reduce charge times even further, but the protocol is much more inconsistent depending on brand, which would reduce the number of chargers that would be truly compatible with our fast charging rate. Meanwhile, any PD-capable charger should also work at 5V/3A with the Hangover. We wanted to make it easy for anyone to find a charger and have it work as advertised, so QC is a better path for the majority of users."
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alright, Q&A time since now have a few minutes to spare:

Any beam shots? I want throw with a helmet light, can you compare this to say an X2 w/spot optics?
Once we have the final optic nailed down we'll be doing beam shots. On version 3 right now. An X2 with spot optics will still be more powerful given that it's an external battery, and narrow punch, not really in the same class. Our optic is more like a Lumina 1200 in terms of peak power, but it's a gradient falloff with the light carpet so much like the Trail, your eye can pick up a lot more without that tunnel effect that narrow high power spot lights give you

We are targeting the Lumina, Urban, Buster, and those single cell internal battery lights on the market with this price point and functionality. This is what the majority of the feedback has been, "love your lights, but hate external batteries".

What is the estimated date these will be available/shipping?
Targeting early fall. I am extremely hesitant to give our an exact date or week since **** happens. However definitely learned from last year and we'll have plenty on hand for the fall rush! But think around September.

Curious if you think the beam pattern will also work well if the light is bar mounted?
If people are already happy with a Lumina or Urban on the bars (which I've seen a ton of at night races) then this will be a great step up. One of these on the bars and one on the helmet will be a great setup for sure.

t looks great and I will be ordering one at least. But will you offer any package deals? With your other lights or maybe buy two get better pricing? Before I order just wanna get the best deal I can. not that the pre-order deal isn't great just like to know options. Thanks.
When we get closer we will probably offer some package deals. Right now just trying to keep things simple. In all honesty the package deal will probably still be similar to buying a Trail/Road at normal price now, and the pre-ordered light, so around $300 total vs when we launch the two together would be around $340 if bought individually.

I know lumens aren't everything (and Matt has proven this), BUT I am wondering if the 850 max is going to be enough, coupled with the fact that this 850 lumens is being spread out to create that "light carpet" and not all focused down the trail? I'm 'wondering how this will compare to a dual XM-L2 light with spot optics pushing 1200 to 1500 lumens.
The major difference is all about the lighting quality. As many have experienced with our current lights, having the smooth falloff makes a massive difference vs the sharp dropoff that a typical bowl reflector light from NR, L&M, MS, etc. provide. The Trail is a very broad and wide even illumination, while this optic is designed with a peaky punch, but very smooth gradient falloff. Here is a picture of it in simulation. For reference... the peak intensity is similar to the NR Boost 1200, except won't see any rings, and a wider falloff.

Colorfulness Blue Yellow Green Text


Can also notice the trapezodial shape that forms the light carpet down below. When the light is mounted on the helmet generally can't see more than 15* above the horizion line, so can see how shifted the light energy around to give some width, but shift the less intense parts of the light from stuff that'd just go into the trees, and putting it more on the ground in front of you.

The whole image was designed around the light following your head in a fixed position, while the Trail was designed so as your handlebars moved you wouldn't lose sight of what you were looking at, so the peak intensity of the Trail is much lower for the tradeoff of very wide illumination.

Another challenge when looking at false image renderings of beam patterns like above is that you might think that you'd still see a really peaky circular spot since the red is so dominant, but that's why we also look at the cross-sectional curves of log intensity because that's how our eyes perceive lighting. So when I design the optic I tweak things so that we have a smooth cross-sectional profile in all ranges. This is the stuff that takes hours of tweaking and simulating, if not days. Combined I'd say I spent about 100-150 hours of design, simulation, and tweaking to get this optic where I felt comfortable.

What is the color temperature of the CREE's, cool white or more towards neutral white? How does the color temperature compare to the focal series? Do you plan to offer a warm or neutral white and cold white version? Furthermore, is your new light airtight or similar to the focal series equipped with a membrane?
The temperature will be looking to match the Focal, so more on the neutral to warm side of the lights. No plans to offer different colors as that is such a minor part of the market (you guys, who want different temperature options) that it'd be a big ask for us to stock various PCB inventory and SKU's, as well as different assembly tracking to try and meet that desire. This is the light that I hope to scale and eventually find in every bike shop in the country, so assembly speed, costs, packaging, etc are extremely crucial if we are going to keep production in house.

The housing is airtight, have learned from Focal and figured out how to improve it even better. Paying a lot upfront for better tooling and processes. The entire upper housing is going to be overmolded TPU on a PC frame, this lets us integrate the button, status light, seal, frame, and give a great GoPro-like soft-touch feel into one part that is completely waterproof.

One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.
Indeed. It's literally one of the most frustrating things to explain to customers. Some people notice it right away, and others don't because their eyes adjust to the light quickly. The other "runtime" standard of FL1 is also stupid IMO since it's the whole "within 10% of original output". When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. So more than likely we'll have 2 hours and then do the typical drop-down-to-get-home sort of like the current Focal.
 

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One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.
Indeed. It's literally one of the most frustrating things to explain to customers. Some people notice it right away, and others don't because their eyes adjust to the light quickly. The other "runtime" standard of FL1 is also stupid IMO since it's the whole "within 10% of original output". When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. So more than likely we'll have 2 hours and then do the typical drop-down-to-get-home sort of like the current Focal.
I appreciate that your standards are higher than those of the FL1. I understand that a lot of the larger manufacturers feel they have to "play the game" for maximum marketing advantage but loose FL1 standards allow for output/runtime claims that are extremely inflated from actual usable performance at the expense of the unsuspecting customer. Surprisingly some people don't seem to care at all but I think they're probably more interested in lighting from a utility point of view (price/reliability/adequate illumination) rather than its performance capabilities. I fall into the later category so again, appreciate your honest output and runtime claims. Ordered 2 "Hangovers" this morning!
Mole
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I appreciate that your standards are higher than those of the FL1. I understand that a lot of the larger manufacturers feel they have to "play the game" for maximum marketing advantage but loose FL1 standards allow for output/runtime claims that are extremely inflated from actual usable performance at the expense of the unsuspecting customer. Surprisingly some people don't seem to care at all but I think they're probably more interested in lighting from a utility point of view (price/reliability/adequate illumination) rather than its performance capabilities. I fall into the later category so again, appreciate your honest output and runtime claims. Ordered 2 "Hangovers" this morning!
Mole
Yep, I agree with you. I think more customers are going off of word-of-mouth and recommendations rather than just straight stat comparisons these days. In the automotive side of things it used to be lumen dominated, then more education came out about why Lumens didn't really matter and examples of how bad some claims were exaggerated, and now more people focus on light quality and such. I feel like the biking side of things is starting to get around to that, though we aren't totally there yet.

Plus, honestly, from the customer service side of things I've always been one to underpromise and overdeliver when I can. Creates a happy customer, and makes my job easier. Same thing for reliablity. Thankfully I hardly spend anytime on customer returns or dealing with frustrated customers because we set a standard fairly high for our lights to be reliable and trouble-free. Sure it costs us about 10-15% more in component costs, but if it means my time dedicated for customer service is only about 1-2 hours a week then I'll take that cost increase any day of the week. Shipping returns, new product, troubleshooting, etc all costs a lot of money. Not to mention the time suck.

Was another one of those lessons learned from working with a company that valued part cost over reliability and stuff. Saw how much waste there was when the owner only valued how much he was paying for parts at the beginning of the life-cycle. Was maddening!

Appreciate the order!
 
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