La totalmente nueva Specialized Epic 2024 al parecer ya sin Brain. Parece una copia del sistema IsoStrut de la Trek
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SPECIALIZED EPIC 2024
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chopperbobadilla
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Just take the battery out. That’s what SRAM recommends.
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That looks to be attached to the rear shock can and the seat tube? Those two points are attached together so when the suspension moves the sensor wouldn't move with it.
There are two places the mount should attach to record the suspension. The upper mount has to be somewhere between the air can and the upper shock eyelet whilst the lower mount must be attached somewhere on the yoke.
This picture shows how it should be laid out:
For the lower mount a flat face is needed. A plastic block slotted over the two prongs of the yoke looks like it should work to give that flat face. The angled shape of the yoke and some strong zip ties would hold it in place.
You could make the basic block by 3D printing then do the two slots and inner edge with a hacksaw to get the clearances.
This bad drawing shows how I see it:
Edit: Sorted out the direction of slope from the top down view.
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You’re correct! I tried testing it last night and realized it wasn’t going to work there. I have a few that I printed overnight ready to try this morning. Think I have a solution that will get it done but need to fit then to see. This looked like it was working when I was doing stand testing but when I tried riding it was only getting about 30% of the travel I would have expected.
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Just pull the batteries and put the blanks in that they include
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Have some solid rides now on my FA setup and thought I would share a somewhat divergent opinion. For background I am coming from an Enduro background over the last 15 years, but in my 20's I did a lot of XC and 24 hour events. Switched back to XC mainly due to a shoulder injury from a crash about 12 months ago, but I actually love XC and road now. I am competitive in the local Sport class XC races with several wins last year, but not even close to the Experts yet. Bike handling is better than average.
With that out of the way I started with a full Fox on my SWorks Epic because I was waiting for FA to be available since I bought a frame only. I really liked the Fox setup and enjoyed riding it. Swapped over to FA about a month ago and have been messing with it since then. Did a 50 mile ride yesterday and luckily (?) my battery died on the fork and I have it set to Open as the default. This meant I did the last 10 miles which was a mix of singletrack and road with no Magic Middle or lockout available.
So what did I learn? First off I like my bikes to be pretty soft. A lot of the stuff I ride has chatter on the climbs and I like that to be soaked up so I can spin through everything. My opinion of FA was that the bias even in a -2 setting was very race oriented. I found myself wanting the bike to be in Open or Pedal mode way more than it is in Auto. On the opposite side, I thought maybe I was just overly sensitive because I never locked my bikes out previously. All rides were just done in Open mode on my previous Epic Evo, Allied BC40 and the current Epic 8. Fortunately when the battery died I got to feel exactly what Open all the time felt like. This absolutely confirmed my suspicions about wanting a softer ride when pedaling around for fun.
IMO FA is overkill unless you plan on racing the bike. It is very cool tech, but it is way more enjoyable even on long XC rides to just be in Open mode all the time. Is it the most efficient way to cover ground? Probably not. Is it way more fun and comfortable? Absolutely. For me the solution is to pick up the left side pod, which I don't currently run, so I can easily use manual mode and run the bike Open for training rides.
For racing I will absolutely run it in Auto mode because there IS a significant advantage when counting seconds. You can feel the difference in speed simply by getting out of the saddle and pedaling or stomping up a climb in the saddle. There is no doubt it is faster, but there is a cost.
So for all of you out there coveting FA that aren't racing or just do a few races per year for fun, save you money and plan a trip instead. I would not spend the $1400 to swap the fork damper and buy a new shock. Run what you have and enjoy an incredible bike. If you race your Epic in shorter 1-2 hour events at a higher level you are at a significant disadvantage if you aren't running FA and it is worth the investment to upgrade. Spend the money and you will be saving a lot of time/energy vs manual lockouts.
Not sure if that helps anyone, but thought I would share with all the FA setup talk right now.
With that out of the way I started with a full Fox on my SWorks Epic because I was waiting for FA to be available since I bought a frame only. I really liked the Fox setup and enjoyed riding it. Swapped over to FA about a month ago and have been messing with it since then. Did a 50 mile ride yesterday and luckily (?) my battery died on the fork and I have it set to Open as the default. This meant I did the last 10 miles which was a mix of singletrack and road with no Magic Middle or lockout available.
So what did I learn? First off I like my bikes to be pretty soft. A lot of the stuff I ride has chatter on the climbs and I like that to be soaked up so I can spin through everything. My opinion of FA was that the bias even in a -2 setting was very race oriented. I found myself wanting the bike to be in Open or Pedal mode way more than it is in Auto. On the opposite side, I thought maybe I was just overly sensitive because I never locked my bikes out previously. All rides were just done in Open mode on my previous Epic Evo, Allied BC40 and the current Epic 8. Fortunately when the battery died I got to feel exactly what Open all the time felt like. This absolutely confirmed my suspicions about wanting a softer ride when pedaling around for fun.
IMO FA is overkill unless you plan on racing the bike. It is very cool tech, but it is way more enjoyable even on long XC rides to just be in Open mode all the time. Is it the most efficient way to cover ground? Probably not. Is it way more fun and comfortable? Absolutely. For me the solution is to pick up the left side pod, which I don't currently run, so I can easily use manual mode and run the bike Open for training rides.
For racing I will absolutely run it in Auto mode because there IS a significant advantage when counting seconds. You can feel the difference in speed simply by getting out of the saddle and pedaling or stomping up a climb in the saddle. There is no doubt it is faster, but there is a cost.
So for all of you out there coveting FA that aren't racing or just do a few races per year for fun, save you money and plan a trip instead. I would not spend the $1400 to swap the fork damper and buy a new shock. Run what you have and enjoy an incredible bike. If you race your Epic in shorter 1-2 hour events at a higher level you are at a significant disadvantage if you aren't running FA and it is worth the investment to upgrade. Spend the money and you will be saving a lot of time/energy vs manual lockouts.
Not sure if that helps anyone, but thought I would share with all the FA setup talk right now.
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It is somewhat interesting because I don't think it feels nearly as firm on the M4SL but I agree with what you are saying. When I did a 35 mile, non-competitive fun ride the other day, the Epic would have been at least 4th on my like of bikes I would have picked (took the M4SL but if it had been 10* or more cooler I would have taken the Switchblade). It is fun to go fast though
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Agreed on the fast part. I think riding with it shut off will make a huge difference in my enjoyment of the bike.It is somewhat interesting because I don't think it feels nearly as firm on the M4SL but I agree with what you are saying. When I did a 35 mile, non-competitive fun ride the other day, the Epic would have been at least 4th on my like of bikes I would have picked (took the M4SL but if it had been 10* or more cooler I would have taken the Switchblade). It is fun to go fast though
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I had a funny Flight Attendant moment last Saturday. As I passed a couple of other cyclists, the Flight Attendant suspension making its constant loud chirpy squirrel noises and the lights flashing away on the fork leg, one of them called out “that’s cheating” as I went past. I think they mistook the Epic 8 for a real ebike!
The Flight Attendant suspension will always default to Open mode if the batteries go flat, or if there are no batteries fitted.
I’ve been realising with the Epic 8 that I’m partial to that “squishy trail bike” feel for some sections too. Using it with the Scott Twinloc 3 position cable lockout I was spending more time with the bike in Open mode than the auto Flight Attendant electronic suspension spends in Open mode now. It likes to use firmer modes more frequently than I would maybe choose by myself.
That’s one of the things that only becomes apparent after buying it.
The Override button on the handlebars has been a real lifesaver for me fortunately. It’s such a useful thing to still have some user control when needed. Without that I’d be far more negative about the whole Flight Attendant experience.
From your description it sounds like you might prefer to have it in Auto mode with Fork and Rear shock lockout disabled for day to day riding. That seems to give a more mellow and relaxed ride already, whilst still including a firmer pedalling option, and then the Override button set to Open mode as well.
That would let you hold it in Open mode for maximum comfort most of the time. Even on a chilled ride there can still be places where a bit of Pedal mode would be nice to have on tap. Just for little bits.
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Alright, after way too much experimentation, I think I finally have valid shock numbers on my Epic. The first time I setup BYB on my Firebird I think it took maybe 15 minutes to get everything going with no special printing. At this point I’m multiple hours and 13 objects printed into it. Absolutely worth it, just further indicates to me that the original intent of the system was for Enduro and Downhill bikes and you have to get creative to make it work on XC bikes in a lot of cases.
Final shock setup looks like the below and you can find a full video showing my ridiculous camera setup here to get the inset view in the second picture. It definitely makes you look like a weirdo riding this bike the way I have it to record these numbers and it also does some funny things to the balance that it took me a couple of miles to feel comfortable with.
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I’m not sure what to make of the numbers. The balance on the bike looks pretty good to me, maybe the rebound on the shock is a little slow in comparison and perhaps I should speed both up a bit. The dynamic sag just seems wrong to me though. I’m not surprised it is less than last week but it seems too low based on the static sag numbers I recorded. Open to anyone that wants to help me think through that but it seems to me that the numbers suggest that I have the suspension too firm overall.
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Full Run Video here showing an inset with FA actions during the entire ride
BYB Data file here
Will do one more of these as soon as I’m able to make it down to the other trail I mentioned (probably Wednesday) but please do feel free to let me know if you’d rather we carry on this conversation in another thread. Don’t want to remove the overall value of this thread.
Final shock setup looks like the below and you can find a full video showing my ridiculous camera setup here to get the inset view in the second picture. It definitely makes you look like a weirdo riding this bike the way I have it to record these numbers and it also does some funny things to the balance that it took me a couple of miles to feel comfortable with.
I’m not sure what to make of the numbers. The balance on the bike looks pretty good to me, maybe the rebound on the shock is a little slow in comparison and perhaps I should speed both up a bit. The dynamic sag just seems wrong to me though. I’m not surprised it is less than last week but it seems too low based on the static sag numbers I recorded. Open to anyone that wants to help me think through that but it seems to me that the numbers suggest that I have the suspension too firm overall.
Full Run Video here showing an inset with FA actions during the entire ride
BYB Data file here
Will do one more of these as soon as I’m able to make it down to the other trail I mentioned (probably Wednesday) but please do feel free to let me know if you’d rather we carry on this conversation in another thread. Don’t want to remove the overall value of this thread.
Attachments
I’ve found that Bias 0 rarely puts me into lock, the only time I notice it is on my only short road section of less than 1/2 mile up hill. 0 is generally in pedal and open combinations. The bike is definitely racy though but that’s why I love it. I don’t feel like I waste anything with the FA fully auto. It encourages me to go fast, that’s for sure.
My other bike is a Gen 2 SW Levo SL, that I only ride in eco 20% assist so I can still get a great workout. Great bike and like a magic carpet, very plush. I ride the Epic 10-1 as I just love it that much more. The previous SW Epic Evo was a great bike but not as precise or efficient. The ratio of riding that to the Levo SL was much more even.
For me, the FA in full auto is a lot of that.
I don’t race, just always liked fast bikes that encourage me to push hard. I ended up disliking the brained bikes as they were too harsh, don’t find this at all with the FA.
My other bike is a Gen 2 SW Levo SL, that I only ride in eco 20% assist so I can still get a great workout. Great bike and like a magic carpet, very plush. I ride the Epic 10-1 as I just love it that much more. The previous SW Epic Evo was a great bike but not as precise or efficient. The ratio of riding that to the Levo SL was much more even.
For me, the FA in full auto is a lot of that.
I don’t race, just always liked fast bikes that encourage me to push hard. I ended up disliking the brained bikes as they were too harsh, don’t find this at all with the FA.
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For looking at the rear suspension this is a BYB leverage curve file to download and load into BYB telemetry for the 2024 Specialized Epic 8:
2024 Epic 8 BYB Telemetry Leverage Curve File Download
The Leverage ratio is quite straightforwards to convert into rear shock stroke. There's an online calculator here for it to double check my numbers:
calculator.academy
"The following formula is used to calculate the leverage ratio for a given rear wheel travel and shock stroke.
LR=RWT/SS
Variables:
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Although the Epic 8 officially has 120mm of rear suspension the Specialized chart shows it as only having 114.3mm rear suspension travel. A Leverage ratio of 2.525 and rear wheel travel of 120mm would require the rear shock to have a stroke of 47.52mm!
I settled on using 45mm stroke and 114.3mm travel instead for the BYB telemetry leverage curve.
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This shows the BYB telemetry leverage curve. This is the same as the linked file. The numbers can be typed in and then a fresh file saved to get the same thing.
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2024 Epic 8 BYB Telemetry Leverage Curve File Download
The Leverage ratio is quite straightforwards to convert into rear shock stroke. There's an online calculator here for it to double check my numbers:
Bike Leverage Ratio Calculator - Calculator Academy
Source This Page Share This Page Close Enter the rear wheel travel and the shock stroke into the calculator to determine the leverage ratio of a bike.
calculator.academy
"The following formula is used to calculate the leverage ratio for a given rear wheel travel and shock stroke.
LR=RWT/SS
Variables:
- LR is the leverage ratio
- RWT is the rear wheel travel in millimeters
- SS is the shock stroke in millimeters" Calculator Academy
Although the Epic 8 officially has 120mm of rear suspension the Specialized chart shows it as only having 114.3mm rear suspension travel. A Leverage ratio of 2.525 and rear wheel travel of 120mm would require the rear shock to have a stroke of 47.52mm!
I settled on using 45mm stroke and 114.3mm travel instead for the BYB telemetry leverage curve.
This shows the BYB telemetry leverage curve. This is the same as the linked file. The numbers can be typed in and then a fresh file saved to get the same thing.
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That's an awesome video to see the Flight Attendant working! The video inset in the upper right corner showing the automatic modes works really well.
For anyone who hasn't ridden Flight Attendant yet it gives a good indication of how often it changes modes:
The lower two lights on the fork leg are the rider power effort level.
The top Left green light on the fork is Open mode, the middle Green light is Pedal mode and the top right green light is Lock mode. If two upper green lights are illuminated together it means the suspension is in split mode with either Open fork / Pedal rear shock or Pedal fork / Lock rear shock. Green lights mean the suspension is in Auto mode.
For anyone who hasn't ridden Flight Attendant yet it gives a good indication of how often it changes modes:
The lower two lights on the fork leg are the rider power effort level.
The top Left green light on the fork is Open mode, the middle Green light is Pedal mode and the top right green light is Lock mode. If two upper green lights are illuminated together it means the suspension is in split mode with either Open fork / Pedal rear shock or Pedal fork / Lock rear shock. Green lights mean the suspension is in Auto mode.
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From the BYB Telemetry this is the auto tuning suggestion now. This is what the software thinks of the most recent ride and how it suggests to be changed. Part of this will be because Flight Attendant was turned on auto mode so there was frequently Compression damping being applied from that. It thinks the fork has too much air in, which the other readings seem to support as well.
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The Incremental chart is looking much better. The lines for front and rear suspension still don't line up but they're a lot more similar overall now. I think that's a sign the recording on the rear shock is in the right sort of area now.
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The Incremental chart is looking much better. The lines for front and rear suspension still don't line up but they're a lot more similar overall now. I think that's a sign the recording on the rear shock is in the right sort of area now.
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Yeah. Enrico told me that the Auto tuning was not really fully something to use at this time as the goal, only suggestions that could lead to something to look at. I was able to get my Firebird and Switchblade to all green on both but neither were ever this far off. However, as he told me, if you get it perfect on one trail it might be way off on another and that has proven to be case. Therefore I have just been using it as a data point rather than a goal.
I also suspect FA messes with it in multiple ways and Enrico said it likely would.
Anyway, I shifted to the Specialized recommendations today as they were softer and have some results to share on a much more technical trail. Will be up ASAP.
hello
I have a Question concerning about q-factor in an Epic 24
I own an Epic comp and there is a heavy X1 1000 Crank installed nearly 800g
i want to replace this one by a XX1 8 bolt .
But there are 2 Options for that, 168mm q-factor with normal DUB BB or a 174mm q-factor with a Dub Wide BB
I don not drive a TM , but is q-factor 168mm working on Epic 2024 or is the Gap between Chainstys to small?
I have a Question concerning about q-factor in an Epic 24
I own an Epic comp and there is a heavy X1 1000 Crank installed nearly 800g
i want to replace this one by a XX1 8 bolt .
But there are 2 Options for that, 168mm q-factor with normal DUB BB or a 174mm q-factor with a Dub Wide BB
I don not drive a TM , but is q-factor 168mm working on Epic 2024 or is the Gap between Chainstys to small?
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Epic 8 is compatible with 168 and 174 q factor. I have used both on an Epic 8.
Both cranksets can reach a 55mm chainline, using a 0mm and 3mm offset chainring respectively. The 168 q factor is 52mm chainline with a 3mm offset chainring. Dub wide (black axle) crankset needs larger outer spacers than the dub SL (previously dub boost, silver axle) on your bsa bb. See Specialized manual for max chainring sizes per chainline.
Both cranksets can reach a 55mm chainline, using a 0mm and 3mm offset chainring respectively. The 168 q factor is 52mm chainline with a 3mm offset chainring. Dub wide (black axle) crankset needs larger outer spacers than the dub SL (previously dub boost, silver axle) on your bsa bb. See Specialized manual for max chainring sizes per chainline.
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To conclude the suspension testing I have two runs for you today. I found the second one very interesting in some odd ways in that it felt a bit different than the numbers indicate.
Run 1
This run was conducted on the Long Loop at the McDowell Mountain Competitive Track. It isn’t particularly difficult, but it is way more technical than the test runs I had been doing. I generally strongly prefer to ride my Switchblade there unless I am racing on it. It is a bit washed out right now and I didn’t expect the last significant hill to be basically all sand/no traction for the last 3m of climbing. You’ll hear my rear tire slipping in the video around the 15 min mark. Had I known it was going to be that way I wouldn’t have been nearly as far forward on my bike as I was (usually keeping the front wheel down there is more of a priority). Other than that, it was a normal run. Apparently, this was still my PR on it but that’s a bit misleading. I’ve done it faster in races, but you don’t do the whole thing there as the tech loop connects to it about 1 mile in. I wasn’t even trying to go fast and when I returned to my car the temp showed at 110F*/43*C.
Overall, I’m happy with the effort and was wisely to not push myself too hard on it. If you watch the video may wonder if I’m just talking to myself for this video or if I just do that all the time. It is the latter. There’s a lot of my chastising myself on most rides.
Balance on this run looks pretty good. I did end up reducing my PSI to 90 for the next run, however.
Screenshots that I found interesting/useful:
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BYB File here
Video here
Run 2
I felt like I owed it to @WR304 to do at least one run with the fully open setting. First, you can tell a massive difference. To me, it felt a lot different than even when the system is operating in Open Mode. In some places this was good, in others it was clearly not. They are what you’d expect, going downhill I was faster in this mode, going uphill I was slower. The only confusing thing to me is that it often felt like the bike was trying buck me off but the numbers on the shock rebound don’t indicate it was that fast. I have no idea why, perhaps it was just because it felt so different.
My conclusion from all this testing is that, even for an intermediate rider, there’s little doubt in my mind that FA is a significant advantage in a race. The efficiency going uphill and being locked without having to think about it is very real. I also believe that there’s significantly more room for improvement in the system now than I did before.
Oh, and turning all of that off messed with the balance of my bike.
Screenshots that I found interesting/useful:
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
BYB File here
Video here (note that it was only 33% uploaded at the time I hit submit on this post so I would say that you should give it an hour if you want the 4K version and probably 20-25 min to get the SD version)
I learned quite a bit doing this in a crowd sourced manner and I’m glad to answer any questions I can.
Run 1
This run was conducted on the Long Loop at the McDowell Mountain Competitive Track. It isn’t particularly difficult, but it is way more technical than the test runs I had been doing. I generally strongly prefer to ride my Switchblade there unless I am racing on it. It is a bit washed out right now and I didn’t expect the last significant hill to be basically all sand/no traction for the last 3m of climbing. You’ll hear my rear tire slipping in the video around the 15 min mark. Had I known it was going to be that way I wouldn’t have been nearly as far forward on my bike as I was (usually keeping the front wheel down there is more of a priority). Other than that, it was a normal run. Apparently, this was still my PR on it but that’s a bit misleading. I’ve done it faster in races, but you don’t do the whole thing there as the tech loop connects to it about 1 mile in. I wasn’t even trying to go fast and when I returned to my car the temp showed at 110F*/43*C.
Overall, I’m happy with the effort and was wisely to not push myself too hard on it. If you watch the video may wonder if I’m just talking to myself for this video or if I just do that all the time. It is the latter. There’s a lot of my chastising myself on most rides.
Balance on this run looks pretty good. I did end up reducing my PSI to 90 for the next run, however.
Screenshots that I found interesting/useful:
BYB File here
Video here
Run 2
I felt like I owed it to @WR304 to do at least one run with the fully open setting. First, you can tell a massive difference. To me, it felt a lot different than even when the system is operating in Open Mode. In some places this was good, in others it was clearly not. They are what you’d expect, going downhill I was faster in this mode, going uphill I was slower. The only confusing thing to me is that it often felt like the bike was trying buck me off but the numbers on the shock rebound don’t indicate it was that fast. I have no idea why, perhaps it was just because it felt so different.
My conclusion from all this testing is that, even for an intermediate rider, there’s little doubt in my mind that FA is a significant advantage in a race. The efficiency going uphill and being locked without having to think about it is very real. I also believe that there’s significantly more room for improvement in the system now than I did before.
Oh, and turning all of that off messed with the balance of my bike.
Screenshots that I found interesting/useful:
BYB File here
Video here (note that it was only 33% uploaded at the time I hit submit on this post so I would say that you should give it an hour if you want the 4K version and probably 20-25 min to get the SD version)
I learned quite a bit doing this in a crowd sourced manner and I’m glad to answer any questions I can.
Great stuff, and gives some real insight. As WR304 said, having the control module and its lights on video really shows how much FA changes the settings! Thanks for all your work on this, and everyone’s else’s input. Fascinating,and I’ve learned a lot. Good average HR figures too!!!My average rides generally have about 2k feet climbing so keeping a constant heartrate can be tricky as the descents are reasonable length and flow well. On a good ride I average about 155-160bpm and I have high V02 make for my age(nearly 52). It looks like you’d smash me😂🤣
I love the full auto FA, but it’s also each to their own. Such a good system and the adjustability is awesome. I think everyone can find a setting that they’ll like.
The weather there looks amazing. It’s been very wet here, the trails are already like they’d normally be at the end of the winter. Hopefully things dry up a bit.
The Vittoria Barzo/Mezcal 2.35 tyres have arrived, I’ll fit them this weekend. To be fair, the Fast Trak front tyre has been better than expected in the mud, quite impressive. The Renegade has just about coped! They’ll go back on in the spring.
I love the full auto FA, but it’s also each to their own. Such a good system and the adjustability is awesome. I think everyone can find a setting that they’ll like.
The weather there looks amazing. It’s been very wet here, the trails are already like they’d normally be at the end of the winter. Hopefully things dry up a bit.
The Vittoria Barzo/Mezcal 2.35 tyres have arrived, I’ll fit them this weekend. To be fair, the Fast Trak front tyre has been better than expected in the mud, quite impressive. The Renegade has just about coped! They’ll go back on in the spring.
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What were the fork and rear shock air pressures and rebound dampings for these two runs? They're not in the file notes.
Was the auto mode run with the suspension set to full auto? i.e. Open / Pedal / Lock all enabled?
From a very quick look it's crazy how much pedal bob there appears to be on the Epic 8 rear shock with Flight Attendant turned off completely. It's a massive difference between the two runs, particularly when climbing!
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