Manitou Mezzer

233946 · Jul 25, 2021

Moosedriver said:
Manitou recommends 5w oil, so putting in a 20w is going with a thicker oil than what the fork is designed around. The extra noise is probably from the oil having a harder time being pushed around. I would recommend picking up some Motorex 5w powersynt and replacing the Fox 20w. Your fork will perform better and will be quieter. You can probably find the Motorex at a local auto parts store or a dirt bike parts shop. Amazon is another option.

They do not recommend a 5w oil. They recommend a 40 weight oil that meets the 5w cold pumping test. At 40c, fox gold 20w is 98cst at 40c, Motorex 5w-40, 89cst, approximately the same thickness. Gold 20w will thicken faster at lower temperatures.

Moosedriver · Jul 25, 2021

Cary said:
They do not recommend a 5w oil. They recommend a 40 weight oil that meets the 5w cold pumping test. At 40c, fox gold 20w is 98cst at 40c, Motorex 5w-40, 89cst, approximately the same thickness. Gold 20w will thicken faster at lower temperatures.

Good to know, thanks. How did you find out that they recommend based on the 40 rather than the 5? I would think it would be more based on the lower (winter) rating rather than the higher (summer) rating since MTB forks are going to normally operate closer to the temperature range that determines the winter number (determined at 0 degrees F) rather than the summer number (determined at 212 degrees F). I'm still trying to learn more about suspension, so every tidbit of knowledge helps!

233946 · Jul 25, 2021

Moosedriver said:
Good to know, thanks. How did you find out that they recommend based on the 40 rather than the 5? I would think it would be more based on the lower (winter) rating rather than the higher (summer) rating since MTB forks are going to normally operate closer to the temperature range that determines the winter number (determined at 0 degrees F) rather than the summer number (determined at 212 degrees F). I'm still trying to learn more about suspension, so every tidbit of knowledge helps!

Spend some time on bobistheoilguy.com and you will learn more than you will ever want. In a multigrade oil, the W number tells you cold pumping test the oil has passed, all are below freezing. The second number of an oil tells you the thickness at 100c (operating temperatures). Oils thickness is also tested at 40c, and measured in centistokes (cSt). The difference in thickness between 40c and 100c is the viscosity index (higher number less change, lower number more).

For suspension purposes we generally look at 40c thickness, as that is close to operating temperature for us (ignore the labeled weight, it means nothing). Here is a list of major suspension oils and their thicknesses:

Stan's Biobased Suspension Oil

Stan’s Biobased Suspension Oil is a high-performance, premium quality oil crafted with the input of professional mountain bike athletes and mechanics in Whistler, BC. Designed for both forks and shocks, this advanced oil features triple-ester technology that shields internal parts from wear and...

us.wplbike.com

06HokieMTB · Jul 26, 2021

My Mezzer CSU has started creaking pretty bad. Seems a couple others have had similar issues?

was really hoping the Mezzer would get away from this after having previous CSU creaks with Fox and RockShox.

GiddyHitch · Aug 6, 2021

Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?

233946 · Aug 6, 2021

GiddyHitch said:
Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?

I just happen to have a Mattoc not mounted on a bike right now. The weight difference is about 120 grams, the below photos are of a Mezzer 29", uncut, out of the box with the axle, the Mattoc is a 120-140mm aftermarket 29" Pro with IRT, about 8.5" of steerer, axle, and star fangle nut.

In terms of the performance, the Mattoc at 120mm is plenty stiff under my 200 pounds. I did modify the IRT (you can find the info here in the forum) so it engaged later, as the IRT is designed around the longer travel Mattoc and works better when scaled back to the short travel. Dougal can give a better back to back comparison of the performance, as it has been a while since I have been on Mattoc at full travel (will be shortly, as servicing a Bronson with one) and it hard to fairly compare a fork on a 120mm plus hardtail and 150mm FS trailbike. I will say that my Son's hardtail has a 2020 Fox Rhythm Grip 120mm fork and while it performs far better than the prior fox 34 forks, I still find the Mattoc to track better and be a bit plusher.

GiddyHitch · Aug 6, 2021

Cary said:
I just happen to have a Mattoc not mounted on a bike right now. The weight difference is about 120 grams, the below photos are of a Mezzer 29", uncut, out of the box with the axle, the Mattoc is a 120-140mm aftermarket 29" Pro with IRT, about 8.5" of steerer, axle, and star fangle nut.

In terms of the performance, the Mattoc at 120mm is plenty stiff under my 200 pounds. I did modify the IRT (you can find the info here in the forum) so it engaged later, as the IRT is designed around the longer travel Mattoc and works better when scaled back to the short travel. Dougal can give a better back to back comparison of the performance, as it has been a while since I have been on Mattoc at full travel (will be shortly, as servicing a Bronson with one) and it hard to fairly compare a fork on a 120mm plus hardtail and 150mm FS trailbike. I will say that my Son's hardtail has a 2020 Fox Rhythm Grip 120mm fork and while it performs far better than the prior fox 34 forks, I still find the Mattoc to track better and be a bit plusher.

View attachment 1942179 View attachment 1942181

I'll take it, Cary! ? That weight on the Mattoc is a little disappointing but still under spec. An older Dougal post in another thread seemed to indicate that the Mattoc was around 1880g, putting it a lot closer to the Fox 34 that I'm trying to replace. I may end up sucking it up and grabbing another Mezzer and cranking it down to 120-130mm since they seem to be a lot more available (though still hard to get right now) than the Mattocs.

croakies · Aug 6, 2021

I went from mattoc to mezzer and found a noticable performance improvement. For aggressive riding and was running mattoc at 160mm

Noticed a lot less friction under heavy impacts/braking/etc. And just a bit more controlled.

Having said that, both are great. At similar weight, I feel like mezzer makes more sense

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

233946 · Aug 7, 2021

GiddyHitch said:
I'll take it, Cary! ? That weight on the Mattoc is a little disappointing but still under spec. An older Dougal post in another thread seemed to indicate that the Mattoc was around 1880g, putting it a lot closer to the Fox 34 that I'm trying to replace. I may end up sucking it up and grabbing another Mezzer and cranking it down to 120-130mm since they seem to be a lot more available (though still hard to get right now) than the Mattocs.

I have to think a new Mattoc is in the works. Having run a Fox 34 FIT4, including doing every upgrade I could, the Mattoc is massive upgrade. In comparison to the 34 with the Grip, the Mattoc is a moderate upgrade. I fully expected to rip the Rhythm off my son's hardtail within a week, but 8 months later it is still on there. It is good enough it hasn't warranted replacing yet.

upsha · Aug 7, 2021

Cary said:
I have to think a new Mattoc is in the works. Having run a Fox 34 FIT4, including doing every upgrade I could, the Mattoc is massive upgrade. In comparison to the 34 with the Grip, the Mattoc is a moderate upgrade. I fully expected to rip the Rhythm off my son's hardtail within a week, but 8 months later it is still on there. It is good enough it hasn't warranted replacing yet.

Could you elaborate what upgrades you had in your FIT4 Fox34? I like my Fractive tuned FIT4 with 140mm EVOL air spring (no Luftkappe) 29" more than my first gen Mattoc with IRT 27.5" @160mm.

233946 · Aug 7, 2021

upsha said:
Could you elaborate what upgrades you had in your FIT4 Fox34? I like my Fractive tuned FIT4 with 140mm EVOL air spring (no Luftkappe) 29" more than my first gen Mattoc with IRT 27.5" @160mm.

I did the upgrade to the Evolv air spring (larger negative chamber), and made sure that the thing was properly lubed and greased. I contemplated the Fractive Tuning, but given the price that people were willing to pay for a used 34, I was able to get the Mattoc (actually Magnum) for nearly the same price as I sold the 34. When combined with fact that I don't ever want to service a Fit damper, but can easily service an ABS damper, it was a no brainer for me.

Dougal · Aug 7, 2021

GiddyHitch said:
Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?

I haven't run a Mezzer shorter than 160mm. I have though run Mezzer and Mattoc at the same travel on the same bikes.

Mezzer is stiffer (obviously), it has a different air spring feel with it more supple in the inches off the top and then more progressive at the end.
The Mezzer damper has a much more controlled and tighter feel if you're running the LSC open, if you run the LSC closed on both that's the same. Because the Mattoc had a much bigger LSC flow path.

All up the Mezzer is tighter controlled and takes the big stuff better.

bansaiman · Aug 7, 2021

For better stiffness you better take a mattoc 3 which has a more massive arch similar to the mezzers

TylerVernon · Aug 7, 2021

TylerVernon said:
If I have a Mezzer Pro with "19" on the lower casting and "19" under the CSU, that would indicate it is a MY2019 fork, correct?

I called Manitou. They said that my fork was manufactured in the latter half of 2019 but since the current production forks are not different, the seller was technically correct when he called it a 2021 model.

CCS86 · Aug 7, 2021

TylerVernon said:
I called Manitou. They said that my fork was manufactured in the latter half of 2019 but since the current production forks are not different, the seller was technically correct when he called it a 2021 model.

I think that is technically shady.

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TylerVernon · Aug 7, 2021

nmxtrdr said:
Motorex Supergliss can be purchased directly from Motorex USA. Couple emails and I had a bottle of 100k a week later.

MOTOREX Products – Euroline

eurolineusa.com

Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.

233946 · Aug 7, 2021

TylerVernon said:
Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.

We have your product, but only if you know the secret password and beg.

nmxtrdr · Aug 7, 2021

TylerVernon said:
Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.

Nice.
Which number Vactra are you using?

TylerVernon · Aug 7, 2021

"Vactra No. 2, Way Oil, ISO 68, Slideway Lubricant" Hopefully that's the right one.

GiddyHitch · Aug 8, 2021

Dougal said:
I haven't run a Mezzer shorter than 160mm. I have though run Mezzer and Mattoc at the same travel on the same bikes.

Mezzer is stiffer (obviously), it has a different air spring feel with it more supple in the inches off the top and then more progressive at the end.
The Mezzer damper has a much more controlled and tighter feel if you're running the LSC open, if you run the LSC closed on both that's the same. Because the Mattoc had a much bigger LSC flow path.

All up the Mezzer is tighter controlled and takes the big stuff better.

Well, thanks to the enablers on this thread I've now ordered my third Mezzer. I think I've got a problem ... but at least that problem isn't a Fox 34 FIT4 anymore.

Manitou Mezzer

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