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Going from a 27.5 wheel with 170mm fork on rune V3 (as per geo chart) to a 29" wheel with 160mm fork you are increasing axle to crown height by abound 10mm roughly (varies between manufacturers), and wheel radius by 15-20mm depending on tire. So you'd be looking at around 1.5 degrees slacker depending on frame size.
 
I wouldn't say one was always better than the other, that comes down to personal preference and what suits their ability, speed, riding style and terrain. But rough rule of thumb is that longer slacker bikes work slightly better with short offset forks for most people.

Lots of good articles out there about it.

What not many of them mention is that it also has a small effect on balance of bike, shorter offset = easier to weight front wheel, and also shorter offset forks work better with shorter stems I find.
 
@builttoride: Hey Keith, so have you moved from the Spitfire to the Titan for your do-everything rig? Curious to hear your thoughts on this and how the switch to 29er has been for you as many of us seem to be stuck in choosing which V3 option to go with.

I’m on a V2 spitfire built burly and have been since 2015. Before that it was the Chaparral. The Spitty is so solid I don’t have much reason the get a new bike! But then again, an entirely new line of Banshee bikes tempts even the firmest resolve to avoid blatant consumerism. I ride in the PNW and BC mostly with a once-a-year extended bikepacking/backcountry trip in there (ie Colorado Trail, Chilcotins, Oregon Timber Trail). The Spitfire has been perfect and so damn versatile!

Thanks in advance,

Brian
 
@builttoride: Hey Keith, so have you moved from the Spitfire to the Titan for your do-everything rig? Curious to hear your thoughts on this and how the switch to 29er has been for you as many of us seem to be stuck in choosing which V3 option to go with.

I'm on a V2 spitfire built burly and have been since 2015. Before that it was the Chaparral. The Spitty is so solid I don't have much reason the get a new bike! But then again, an entirely new line of Banshee bikes tempts even the firmest resolve to avoid blatant consumerism. I ride in the PNW and BC mostly with a once-a-year extended bikepacking/backcountry trip in there (ie Colorado Trail, Chilcotins, Oregon Timber Trail). The Spitfire has been perfect and so damn versatile!

Thanks in advance,

Brian
I am lucky enough to have both a spitfire V3 and Titan (both final stage protos). I ride them both, just depends on where I'm riding and what mood I'm in. Love them both for different reasons.

I did mainly ride the spitfire for years, was my do everything bike for riding here in Scotland. Switching to the titan was interesting, it's honestly a bit too much bike for most the stuff I ride...but it's fun to charge through stuff and it's stupidly fast on open trails... plus climbs really well over tech . All things that 29ers are known for, and the titan really maximises.

The spitfire will always be more playful on slower tight stuff tho, and so more fun when not chasing the clock. I still climbs amazingly (significantly better than V2) and feels more bottomless and stable at speed, while still having great ability to pop around the trail picking fun lines.

for me the thing that took lomgest switching from 27.5 to 29 was the body positioning to lean into corners, just needs to be a bit exaggerated compared to 27.5 and has a slightly different feel. took a few rides to work it out, and weirdly I think it's made me better at cornering on the spitfire too!
 
How well does the V3 Rune climb compared to the V2 Spitfire?
I'm looking to upgrade to a little more travel from my Spitfire, which feels great with a coil sprung shock, but I might be a bit hard on it.
 
How well does the V3 Rune climb compared to the V2 Spitfire?
I'm looking to upgrade to a little more travel from my Spitfire, which feels great with a coil sprung shock, but I might be a bit hard on it.
I'd say it climbs at least as well (although of course this depends on setup)
 
Welp just pulled the trigger on a Rune V3 frameset. Ethan with Dirt Merchant was helpful and easy to work with. Keith and others here, thank you for your input. In the end my decision was made after some back and forths with Michael B with Banshee sales who helped clarify some of the differences between the new Rune and Spitfire. We'll see if my local trails end up feeling boring on the bigger bike. I kinda doubt it ;)
 
Welp just pulled the trigger on a Rune V3 frameset. Ethan with Dirt Merchant was helpful and easy to work with. Keith and others here, thank you for your input. In the end my decision was made after some back and forths with Michael B with Banshee sales who helped clarify some of the differences between the new Rune and Spitfire. We'll see if my local trails end up feeling boring on the bigger bike. I kinda doubt it ;)
Nice one.
Can you share these differences as I'm also stuck on deciding between the 2.
Will have been on a V2 Spitfire for 6 years come May.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk
 
Nice one.
Can you share these differences as I'm also stuck on deciding between the 2.
Will have been on a V2 Spitfire for 6 years come May.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk
So you and I are in the same boat then, I've been on a Spitfire (early V2) for the last 6 years as well. Here's a sampling of the random ideas that went through my head with this decision.

I love my Spitfire as it has been capable of such a wide variety of riding. I have it built up with an X2 on the rear and 36 on the front with old Stans Flow EX wheelset, so built fairly strong. My local trails (southern Oregon) involve long fire road climbs of 2000-5000 feet followed by fast, generally smooth singletrack all the way back down. I like to go as fast as I can on the downs and generally sit and spin on the way up. I do longer bike-packing style trips once a year (some trips this bike has done include 7 days in the Chilcotins, the Durango to Moab hut trip, planning on Timber trail this summer) and I have started what I hope will be an annual trip to BC because what I really love is steep, technical or fall-line type trails like you find in Nelson, Pemberton, Squamish and Whistler (to name a few, I know there is so much more up there). And I love Whistler bike park but go rarely and have always rented a DH bike when there. So pretty varied riding I guess.

Michael B with Banshee sales explained to me that Banshee wanted to create more of a differential between the V3 Spitfire and Rune. So the new Spitfire is 135mm (vs our V2 140mm rear travel) and has a more refined/lighter tubeset than the beefier Rune frame. And the geometry differences reflect this intention as well.

This is still going to be my do-everything bike for the most part though I might need to break out the hardtail for bike-packing. I could make the argument for either bike based on my preferred riding. Spitfire probably still makes more practical sense but I'm banking on the Rune being a really fun, aggressive bike that will allow me to push some limits. Specifically one of the areas I'd like to improve is clearing the many medium-sized gaps to brake-chattered berms on our local trail system. This is kind of scary to try on the Spitfire for me. I also like to go fast and sometimes feel the Spitfire getting a little twitchy at higher speeds.

I trust Keith when he compares the climbing capability of the V3 Rune to that of our V2 Spitfire, so not super worried about climbing. I think the only concern I have at this point is whether the geometry will be so slack that my local trails will feel too easy or not as fun as when I'm railing the Spitfire at the edge of comfort.

Also, this might be silly but I really wanted the tune-ability and stuck-to-the-ground sensation of the X2 shock and Fox doesn't make one to fit the V3 Spitfire. I think that minor detail kind of cemented in my brain that the bike I'm looking for has a little burlier intentions than the Spitfire. I feel like I will be able to have as much fun on the Rune as I do on my Spitfire for 90% of my riding and I'll have a bike that will probably feel pretty damn good at places like Whistler bike park as well. Kind of the BC/XC idea that the Rune was founded on. Every time I go to BC I see super fit people spinning big bikes up huge climbs then shredding so hard on the way down.

That said, I think the countless people on these forums telling you you can't go wrong with either choice are probably right.

Hope that helps some.
 
I trust Keith when he compares the climbing capability of the V3 Rune to that of our V2 Spitfire

Hope that helps some.
That's pretty much what I needed to hear.

Our Spitties are quite similar.
I run the CCDBAirCC, Lyrik RCT3 and the same rims with inserts.
Quite solid for its weight/price.
Ever since I got the fork with the Debonair spring a year ago I've picked up a bit more trail speed.
I've noticed the rear end is getting a little outclassed as I hit things harder.

I want my next bike to let me push my limit further and I think the Spitfire would hold me back again on descents when things get really rowdy.
Knowing that climbing won't be too compromised is good to hear.
We have a small chairlift accessed bike park here in NZ but it's still recovering from a fire that took out most of its trails a few years ago so I haven't bought a pass.
Rune will be better in the new trails they have there than the Spitty and my Glory.

Thanks for your help morox.
Still be a few months before I get enough coin though.
Do I transfer everything over to a new frame or buy a complete?
:???:
 
Do I transfer everything over to a new frame or buy a complete?

That’s the question eh? I’m using the fact that I haven’t purchased a new bike in 6 years to justify a custom build. It has been surprisingly easy to get over my general anti-consumerist ideals as I dream about the new bike.
 
Do I transfer everything over to a new frame or buy a complete?

That's the question eh? I'm using the fact that I haven't purchased a new bike in 6 years to justify a custom build. It has been surprisingly easy to get over my general anti-consumerist ideals as I dream about the new bike.
Yeah that's my thinking too.
My Lyrik is the standard offset so best to get the reduced offset fork in a complete build.
Need a new drivetrain anyways and can hand my current wheels to the hardtail too.
 
Anyone have any time on the Phantom yet? I'm curious about this bike. Looks like it would fit my riding well. Geo looks pretty close to the new Ripley, which I've tested and liked a lot.
I have managed to get enough time on mine to form a few initial opinions. The thing I think I noticed intially was how quiet and composed the bike feels even in steep rough stuff. Also the revised suspension feels excellent and having the weight carried centered down low on the frame definitely gives it a confident planted feel. It climbs well and seems to be able to comfortably tackle even rough choppy climbs without a problem (the limitation is the motor..not the bike). The bottom bracket is relatively low so pedal strikes are a consideration but not a huge concern. Fit and finish are very nice and definitely a step forward from the V2 series.

For the record I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam and I'm very comfortable on the large frame. It is definitely not a light frame mine came in at 8.3lbs for a large BLK anno frame with headset cups, shock (Fox Float DPX2), 148x12 short dropouts and axle installed.
 
Thanks EvilBkr for the response. At over 200 lbs, I'm not super concerned with a couple of extra pounds on the frame (though a light bike is always nice!) Does the Phantom feel pretty maneuverable in tight stuff? Chain stays look a bit on the longer side, and it's longer/slacker than what I'm used to.
 
Easy to clean in my experience and doesn't gather dirt. The machining around the shock cradle was done to allow for plenty of space for water and dirt to clear out - it's hard to tell in side profile pictures.
Thanks for the reply, after relooking at some picture the V3 does seem easier to clean than V2 frames.

Another question, does the V3 frames have guided tubes for the internal cable routing? What keep the cables from rattling?

As you can tell, I like clean quiet bikes. Just want to know before I pull the trigger on Spitfire V3.
 
Not sure any aluminum frames have internal guides. Banshee does not. There’s a big zip tie loop to capture and secure all three cables just forward of the BB. It’s a little bit fiddly, but definitely quiet once cinched down.
 
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