TRANCE - The Official thread, pics and info inside.

syrous44 · Jul 21, 2016

All I am saying is guys shouldn't be telling newer riders to higher end bikes what is unnecessary on there bikes. Companies like Giant and Specilized or Trek don't put components on bikes just for the heck of it. Also most well designed chain guides today have a higher purpose of keeping proper chain alignment so your drive train lasts longer. Also I ride my bikes hard and my narrow wides last way more then 600 miles. Trying to keep your components last longer is not being cheap, it's actually being smart with your money and not throwing it away. I guess some people are better at managing there income.

Plain and simple it's a proven fact that running any chain guide is better on your drive train then not running one when it comes to technical and hard riding where a drive train is key ie enduro. Also giant is known for making excellent bikes for great value and performance. They don't add stuff just for the fun of it. It's not like boutique brands that hose there customers with what they offer.
It's funny how guys on the enduro circute like Rude run a guide where bike weight is key. You don't see them to often on the course putting chains back on there chain rings.

The op was asking how to put it back togther. Now some of you are confusing the guy if it's even necessary.

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Steel Calf · Jul 21, 2016

minimusprime said:
i don't try and make narrow wide chainrings last for 600+ miles as if I lived in abject poverty. NW chain rings die at 200-300ish depending on your chain line and riding profile (climbs etc)

What??
Narrow Wide chainrings die after 300 miles? My kool stop brake pads often last longer than that! (depending on terrain of course)

Are you running a worn chain?

Or maybe you should just switch over to a steel narrow wide chainring the next time, it only costs a third and lasts four times longer than the aluminium ones (= 12x the value!)

minimusprime · Jul 21, 2016

syrous44 said:
All I am saying is guys shouldn't be telling newer riders to higher end bikes what is unnecessary on there bikes. Companies like Giant and Specilized or Trek don't put components on bikes just for the heck of it. Also most well designed chain guides today have a higher purpose of keeping proper chain alignment so your drive train lasts longer. Also I ride my bikes hard and my narrow wides last way more then 600 miles. Trying to keep your components last longer is not being cheap, it's actually being smart with your money and not throwing it away. I guess some people are better at managing there income.

Plain and simple it's a proven fact that running any chain guide is better on your drive train then not running one when it comes to technical and hard riding where a drive train is key ie enduro. Also giant is known for making excellent bikes for great value and performance. They don't add stuff just for the fun of it. It's not like boutique brands that hose there customers with what they offer.
It's funny how guys on the enduro circute like Rude run a guide where bike weight is key. You don't see them to often on the course putting chains back on there chain rings.

The op was asking how to put it back togther. Now some of you are confusing the guy if it's even necessary.

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Partially correct. The endurbro's do not run guides like the one that shipped on the trance. Guides of this fashion are at this point, obsolete. You won't find any lower idler cog guides on any of the leading enduro racing bikes. What you will find is upper guides like the one-up as I suggested. This is because they do not come with the anti-squat chain tension penalty which harsh-ens your suspension towards the end of the stroke. Furthermore, with a clutch rear derailleur you do not have slack in your lower chain, you have it in the upper portion of your chain, (while descending in low gears) which is why you'll find upper guides as the current flavor of the year.

Image taken from this article about Ritche Rude's enduro bike WINNING BIKE: Richie Rude's Yeti SB6c - WINNING BIKE: Richie Rude's Yeti SB6c - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

Steel Calf said:
What??
Narrow Wide chainrings die after 300 miles? My kool stop brake pads often last longer than that! (depending on terrain of course)

Are you running a worn chain?

Or maybe you should just switch over to a steel narrow wide chainring the next time, it only costs a third and lasts four times longer than the aluminium ones (= 12x the value!)

Regarding chainring life. You can, and I have nursed a chainring to about 500 miles or so. However you are risking ruining a ride due to a phantom dropping chain. I literally have never dropped my chain once (on my personal bikes, plenty of times on the bikes I service) and that's due to staying up on the maintenance of my chain rings. I use a digital caliper to measure the narrow/wide tooth profiles when the chain rings are brand new, that way I can know for sure what constitutes a worn out chain ring.

You can tell yourself all you want that your chain rings last 600+ miles, but they don't. What you're really experiencing is how good modern clutched derailleurs are (if your'e running a 1x, 2x don't count cause front derailleur).

Regarding chainring material.... I run aluminum chain rings on my trance and steel x-sync sram chainrings on my 29r. There actually isn't a huge difference in life if I'm honest. It might be due to the fact that I race my 29r and do significantly more climbing out of the saddle at lower RPM. That I cannot answer to.

What I can say, is that an extra 120 dollars a year of bike maintance is a drop in the bucket to what this hobby costs. But then again, I am the guy that does a fork lower leg oil change every month and a full lower leg rebuild every other month. ****, I tear through some where around 250 dollars in tires a year on my trance alone.

I digress, I can tell you for a fact, that the guide that comes on the trance from giant, does not provide signficant drop resistance. Your chain drop is likely going to come form the top and as such, I feel that you are best served with a lighter, more maintenance friendly (no idlers), quieter, better performing (suspension anti-squat wise) and more functional chain guide.

For what it's worth... I'm the bike maintenance guy in my group of riders. I have developed this opinion not only based on the experiences riding and maintaining my own bikes, but also doing the majority of maintenance on about 6 other current top level enduro bikes.

As always, YMMV.

Mongo40 · Jul 21, 2016

I'm not a newer rider, just on a newer ride, my other bike is a 20yr old Cannondale Super V, I tend to hang onto something for awhile when I like it, I just have never used one of these chain guides an there isn't much info on it, I did find the PDF diagram that some one sent me, appeares that there is a small washer between each cog an the one slightly larger one on the back end, that one an the cogs were all I found so need the three smaller ones, then put it back on, I'll continue to use it as I don't think Giant would just be adding fluff to their bikes. Thanks for all the comments an info! Can't no one accuse you guys about not being passionate about your hobby!!!

GnarBrahWyo · Jul 21, 2016

Got new frame all built up and ready to roll. New XT brakes (coming from Deores). BIG improvement from just riding bike around street last night. Old brakes felt super sloppy.
New fit feels good (went from large to medium). Feels closer to my old Solo. Rode it around my local greenway with my GF last night and it felt super nice. Plan on taking it to the trails soon. Will report after first full ride.

syrous44 · Jul 21, 2016

minimusprime said:
Partially correct. The endurbro's do not run guides like the one that shipped on the trance. Guides of this fashion are at this point, obsolete. You won't find any lower idler cog guides on any of the leading enduro racing bikes. What you will find is upper guides like the one-up as I suggested. This is because they do not come with the anti-squat chain tension penalty which harsh-ens your suspension towards the end of the stroke. Furthermore, with a clutch rear derailleur you do not have slack in your lower chain, you have it in the upper portion of your chain, (while descending in low gears) which is why you'll find upper guides as the current flavor of the year.

Image taken from this article about Ritche Rude's enduro bike WINNING BIKE: Richie Rude's Yeti SB6c - WINNING BIKE: Richie Rude's Yeti SB6c - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

Regarding chainring life. You can, and I have nursed a chainring to about 500 miles or so. However you are risking ruining a ride due to a phantom dropping chain. I literally have never dropped my chain once (on my personal bikes, plenty of times on the bikes I service) and that's due to staying up on the maintenance of my chain rings. I use a digital caliper to measure the narrow/wide tooth profiles when the chain rings are brand new, that way I can know for sure what constitutes a worn out chain ring.

You can tell yourself all you want that your chain rings last 600+ miles, but they don't. What you're really experiencing is how good modern clutched derailleurs are (if your'e running a 1x, 2x don't count cause front derailleur).

Regarding chainring material.... I run aluminum chain rings on my trance and steel x-sync sram chainrings on my 29r. There actually isn't a huge difference in life if I'm honest. It might be due to the fact that I race my 29r and do significantly more climbing out of the saddle at lower RPM. That I cannot answer to.

What I can say, is that an extra 120 dollars a year of bike maintance is a drop in the bucket to what this hobby costs. But then again, I am the guy that does a fork lower leg oil change every month and a full lower leg rebuild every other month. ****, I tear through some where around 250 dollars in tires a year on my trance alone.

I digress, I can tell you for a fact, that the guide that comes on the trance from giant, does not provide signficant drop resistance. Your chain drop is likely going to come form the top and as such, I feel that you are best served with a lighter, more maintenance friendly (no idlers), quieter, better performing (suspension anti-squat wise) and more functional chain guide.

For what it's worth... I'm the bike maintenance guy in my group of riders. I have developed this opinion not only based on the experiences riding and maintaining my own bikes, but also doing the majority of maintenance on about 6 other current top level enduro bikes.

As always, YMMV.

I agree there I run a one up guide Nd narrow wide on my trance.

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Mongo40 · Jul 21, 2016

What's the widest tire you've been able to run on the front of your stock Trance? Wondering if one of the 27.5x2.5s will fit.

kikoraa · Jul 21, 2016

What would be a good bottom side chain guide for when you go over larger logs?

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minimusprime · Jul 21, 2016

kikoraa said:
What would be a good bottom side chain guide for when you go over larger logs?

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Depends on your drive train and desires. There are three permutations of this setup:
1) 1x with desire to run upper chain guide and chain rings ranging from 26-32. If so, this is your answer MRP AMG V2 Alloy Single Ring Guide > Components > Drivetrain > Chain Guides & Tensioners | Jenson USA

2) 2x then this is your answer MRP XCg (V2) Alloy Chainguide ISCG-05

3) 1x with desire to run rear lower idler tensioner G4 ? MRP

These are all starting to pretty much go out of style with the age of the ultra light upper guide and 1x drive trains. I personally don't have much use for a taco-bash guard even through all of the sedona, mammoth, moab and socal chunk that I ride.

This bike has a plenty high bottom bracket (actually very high by today's standards) which I actually like. I find that I can roll off of drops around 2-3' without hitting and can clear logs far bigger then my skills will allow me to hit without a bash guard.

ymmv

Steel Calf · Jul 22, 2016

minimusprime said:
Regarding chainring life. You can, and I have nursed a chainring to about 500 miles or so. However you are risking ruining a ride due to a phantom dropping chain. I literally have never dropped my chain once (on my personal bikes, plenty of times on the bikes I service) and that's due to staying up on the maintenance of my chain rings. I use a digital caliper to measure the narrow/wide tooth profiles when the chain rings are brand new, that way I can know for sure what constitutes a worn out chain ring.

You can tell yourself all you want that your chain rings last 600+ miles, but they don't. What you're really experiencing is how good modern clutched derailleurs are (if your'e running a 1x, 2x don't count cause front derailleur).

Regarding chainring material.... I run aluminum chain rings on my trance and steel x-sync sram chainrings on my 29r. There actually isn't a huge difference in life if I'm honest. It might be due to the fact that I race my 29r and do significantly more climbing out of the saddle at lower RPM. That I cannot answer to.

I am the guy that does a fork lower leg oil change every month and a full lower leg rebuild every other month. ****, I tear through some where around 250 dollars in tires a year on my trance alone.

For what it's worth... I'm the bike maintenance guy in my group of riders. I have developed this opinion not only based on the experiences riding and maintaining my own bikes, but also doing the majority of maintenance on about 6 other current top level enduro bikes.

Sounds like your bike either needs more maintenance than an airplane OR (no offense meant) you're just nuts in a weird maintenance addicted kind of way.

I can tell you for sure that my chainrings do last longer than 600 miles, I don't experience "phantom dropping chains" (whatever that is?) and I've never ever heard about a chainring that is wearing faster than the chain itself either. It's normally a worn chain that is wearing down the chainring - not the other way round as you make it sound.

And steel chainrings do last significantly longer (2-4x) than aluminium ones - although with some weight penalty.

I only change my Narrow Wide chainrings when they start making grinding noises or dragging the chain up the other side.

If I had a bike that needs fork service every month, chainrings wearing faster than light in <500 miles and 2-weekly (?) tire renewals needed I'd rather stop using that bike or give up the sport altogether before indulging in such a service overkill. Again no offense meant but can you even complete a multi day trip without giving the brakes a fresh bleed in between or swapping out the "badly worn" chain after 200miles?

Benno · Jul 22, 2016

I'll maybe change my chain every 600 miles (1000 ish km) and my chainrings /cassette every 3000 km and I thought that was ocd lol. Then again I run 2x so I guess that distributes the wear by approximately twice.

fsrxc · Jul 22, 2016

kikoraa said:
What would be a good bottom side chain guide for when you go over larger logs?

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do you mean a bash guard?
Many nowadays have the upper chain guide with a taco bash guard underneath, like this:
Blackspire - TrailX Guide | Blackspire
AMg (V2) ? MRP

or no guide and just the bash guard:
Blackspire - BRUISER | Blackspire

kyle242gt · Jul 22, 2016

Steel Calf said:
Sounds like your bike either needs more maintenance than an airplane OR (no offense meant) you're just nuts in a weird maintenance addicted kind of way.

Benno said:
I'll maybe change my chain every 600 miles ...

FWIW, I'm at ~1500 mi on the stock chain, negligble wear, maybe five drops in that time on a guardless NW 1x.

GnarBrahWyo · Jul 25, 2016

So took my Medium Trance out on a couple of a rides. I can definitely say I am able to shred the downhills a little better. At first it felt weird but after I got used to it I was rolling steep lines and plowing through rock gardens with ease.
The long wheelbase of the large was nice on climbs but after a ride on the new frame I was getting better at out of the saddle punchy sections.
I also appreciated that it was a bit more nimble going around corners.
Still dialing in my stem/bar combo to maximize fit. I got in my posession a 40, 50, 55, 60 and 75 mm stem to try out. Will probably settle on one of the 50-60 mm options.

minimusprime · Jul 25, 2016

Steel Calf said:
Sounds like your bike either needs more maintenance than an airplane OR (no offense meant) you're just nuts in a weird maintenance addicted kind of way.

I can tell you for sure that my chainrings do last longer than 600 miles, I don't experience "phantom dropping chains" (whatever that is?) and I've never ever heard about a chainring that is wearing faster than the chain itself either. It's normally a worn chain that is wearing down the chainring - not the other way round as you make it sound.

And steel chainrings do last significantly longer (2-4x) than aluminium ones - although with some weight penalty.

I only change my Narrow Wide chainrings when they start making grinding noises or dragging the chain up the other side.

If I had a bike that needs fork service every month, chainrings wearing faster than light in <500 miles and 2-weekly (?) tire renewals needed I'd rather stop using that bike or give up the sport altogether before indulging in such a service overkill. Again no offense meant but can you even complete a multi day trip without giving the brakes a fresh bleed in between or swapping out the "badly worn" chain after 200miles?

The conditions under which I ride are likely some of the least forgiving you could possibly chose to ride a bike in. We ride in completely dusty/desert conditions and then throw salt air in the mix when we are avoiding the inland heat and riding near the ocean.

In addition my bike sees 1-2 days of bike park usage each month, 8 months a year and then 2-3 destination vacations. (sedona, moab, pacific northwest, etc). All 3 of the bike parks that are local to me; big bear, mammoth and northstar are absolutely brutal on bikes.

I beat the ever-loving s@#$ out of my trance and I definitely do over maintain it as a result. I expect it to be mechanically perfect on every park day or destination trip that I participate in. It costs so much money on these mtb vacations or park days (50 bucks a day in lift passes) that a small bit of preventative maintenance goes a long way.

Call me crazy... but with at much as I've spent on the trance... a little elbow grease goes a long way to make sure it's perfect. The maintenance is cheap insurance. In addition, I always like having a few beers after a park/shuttle day while cleaning and inspecting the bike.

My experience is that NW chainrings don't last anywhere even remotely close to as long as what you guys are listing. Then again, my daily ride always includes 2-3' drops and rock gardens that everyone but people on 140mm+ travel bikes walk down.

YMMV

socalrider77 · Jul 26, 2016

minimusprime said:
The conditions under which I ride are likely some of the least forgiving you could possibly chose to ride a bike in. We ride in completely dusty/desert conditions and then throw salt air in the mix when we are avoiding the inland heat and riding near the ocean.

In addition my bike sees 1-2 days of bike park usage each month, 8 months a year and then 2-3 destination vacations. (sedona, moab, pacific northwest, etc). All 3 of the bike parks that are local to me; big bear, mammoth and northstar are absolutely brutal on bikes.

I beat the ever-loving s@#$ out of my trance and I definitely do over maintain it as a result. I expect it to be mechanically perfect on every park day or destination trip that I participate in. It costs so much money on these mtb vacations or park days (50 bucks a day in lift passes) that a small bit of preventative maintenance goes a long way.

Call me crazy... but with at much as I've spent on the trance... a little elbow grease goes a long way to make sure it's perfect. The maintenance is cheap insurance. In addition, I always like having a few beers after a park/shuttle day while cleaning and inspecting the bike.

My experience is that NW chainrings don't last anywhere even remotely close to as long as what you guys are listing. Then again, my daily ride always includes 2-3' drops and rock gardens that everyone but people on 140mm+ travel bikes walk down.

YMMV

How does the trance do at snow summit (big bear)? Want to make a trip up there and not sure whether to bring my trance or just rent a DH bike up there.

shiopz · Jul 26, 2016

Mongo40 said:
View attachment 1083367
What's the widest tire you've been able to run on the front of your stock Trance? Wondering if one of the 27.5x2.5s will fit.

If you are asking what is the widest you can run with the stock rims, then i dont know, probably 2.3's?

I have mine running on ztr flow rims with 2.4 Onza ibex and Onza citius tires...gives a high volume look and the grip is great, and the tire clearance with this set up -- i think 2.5 is still going to fit fine.

HkNeef · Jul 26, 2016

shiopz said:
If you are asking what is the widest you can run with the stock rims, then i dont know, probably 2.3's?

I have mine running on ztr flow rims with 2.4 Onza ibex and Onza citius tires...gives a high volume look and the grip is great, and the tire clearance with this set up -- i think 2.5 is still going to fit fine.

I have fit 2.35" Michelin Wild Grip'R's in both front en rear, mounted on DT Swiss EX 1501 rims they do fall wide. 2.4" would fit and perhaps a 2.5" also, but this is depending on rim/tire combination. And please take in mind that the wheel will have lateral movement during your rides, so you need some space between the tire and the frame ;-)

lakarz16 · Jul 28, 2016

I just want to share my upgraded

trance 4
Raceface Atlas Cashmoney color. 780mm, 15 mm rise.
Schwalbe nobby nic 650 b 2.35
Rockshox monarch debonair rt3

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Steel Calf · Jul 28, 2016

^ what so many upgrades but no dropper post?

TRANCE - The Official thread, pics and info inside.

syrous44

Steel Calf

minimusprime

Mongo40

GnarBrahWyo

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kikoraa

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Benno

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