[Bigjunk1]

Changed my brakes to Shimano XT 8000 to have a matching full XT bike. I'm OCD like that.
I had Shimano BR-M445 to start with and they were great brakes. The XT's are very slightly stronger but I have to pull the levers farther to fully stop. I assume most people like the added modulation but I am not sure I consider it better. I'm sure I will get use to the small difference but I liked the short pull of the 445's.
This has nothing to do with needing bled, the XT's just have a longer pull to fully lock up.

 

[incubus]

Is there a question in here somewhere or are you just giving feedback between the two brake models?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harold]

Sounds like a setup issue to me.

From what I'm seeing, your brake levers are too far towards the ends of your bars. For one-finger braking (which the XT levers are designed for), you want the 3rd joint on your index finger to touch the lever blade at the outermost bend. Like this, even though these brakes are Maguras:

To get it there, you move the clamp position, as well as the lever reach knob. Where you put the shifter after that depends on where you can comfortably reach it.

After that, you can adjust the amount of lever travel (free stroke). Like this:

You CAN also adjust lever travel by slightly over-filling the fluid in the system if the above are not adequate adjustment for you.

Modulation is something entirely different. It's the amount of "feathering" capability you have in the brakes. Generally, more modulation means that more lever travel equates to less piston movement at the caliper, so that modulating the power of the brake is easier. Shimano XT brakes are NOT commonly described as having a lot of modulation. They're commonly described as somewhat touchy or grabby. With the free stroke adjusted fully open, a lot of that lever travel doesn't actually modulate the brakes. The free stroke adjustment simply allows you to set how much lever travel is required to hit that bite point, as you can see from the vid. Where you like it best will depend on the length of your fingers and your grip strength.

 

[Bigjunk1]

Is there a question in here somewhere or are you just giving feedback between the two brake models?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was just giving my thoughts on the XT brakes. I expected less lever travel. I liked the short pull of the 445's and had no problem controlling the lock up.
I guess the longer travel gives control easier over a longer distance [what most people seem to want]. The XT's work great, just not what I expected / am use to. As I use them more maybe they will grow on me?

 

[Bigjunk1]

Sounds like a setup issue to me.

From what I'm seeing, your brake levers are too far towards the ends of your bars. For one-finger braking (which the XT levers are designed for), you want the 3rd joint on your index finger to touch the lever blade at the outermost bend. Like this, even though these brakes are Maguras:

View attachment 1108937

To get it there, you move the clamp position, as well as the lever reach knob. Where you put the shifter after that depends on where you can comfortably reach it.

After that, you can adjust the amount of lever travel (free stroke). Like this:

You CAN also adjust lever travel by slightly over-filling the fluid in the system if the above are not adequate adjustment for you.

Modulation is something entirely different. It's the amount of "feathering" capability you have in the brakes. Generally, more modulation means that more lever travel equates to less piston movement at the caliper, so that modulating the power of the brake is easier. Shimano XT brakes are NOT commonly described as having a lot of modulation. They're commonly described as somewhat touchy or grabby. With the free stroke adjusted fully open, a lot of that lever travel doesn't actually modulate the brakes. The free stroke adjustment simply allows you to set how much lever travel is required to hit that bite point, as you can see from the vid. Where you like it best will depend on the length of your fingers and your grip strength.

I am to accustomed and stuck in my ways to go one finger and prefer two finger braking. The added pull length I consider modulation as the instant the lever moves the brakes start to engage. The distance from beginning to end of the lever pull is just slightly more than my 445's. The pull is not spongy like they need bled but kind of reminds me of the 445's when they needed bled. I'm sure I will grow to like them as I use them more.
The free stroke is adjusted to the tightest setting but evidently does not work anyway.

 

[Harold]

The two brake systems you switched between have different designs. If you expected them to feel the same, you were deluding yourself.

The vast majority of people adapt just fine to slightly different systems. Whether you do is entirely up to you, but with as stubborn as you are, I have my doubts.

 

[Miker J]

The newer XTs seem to have a bit more lever throw than prior versions, but that might just me my imagination. XTs have less modulation than most brakes. They have a very on/off feel. They get real powerful, real fast. That's why I like'm.

Fix them with your credit card.... Remove the wheel. Insert a credit card between the brake pads. Squeeze the lever several times. Reinstall wheel. Voila !

And, before placing your credit card back in your wallet, credit my paypal a few bucks for fixing your brakes.

 

[Lone Rager]

It's not range of travel, but rather range of force applied to the lever. Ideally, the lever would travel very little and braking would be proportional to the force applied to the lever. Of course the lever will have to move with increasing force because the pads move and there's elasticity in the system. But, a good system with no air in it will have firm levers.

 

[Cleared2land]

My XT's have a very tight, short throw to full lock up. Not sure I agree with your general assessment that yours are the XT standard.

 

[D Bone]

Yep, my XT's have very little throw and bite immediately..... They are however mounted correctly and as designed, for 1 finger braking.

OP, slide those levers closer to the stem, to where your index finger naturally rests right at the end of the lever in the crook (in Harold's 1st pic), and your issues will be gone.

 

[jeffj]

The ergonomics and performance characteristics of all of the XT's I have ridden and owned (several) have all naturally led me to 1 finger braking. I used to be a 2 finger 'braker' with most other braking systems, but love the 1 finger performance (with regards to modulation) and believe that they work best this way because they were designed to. Those that brake with 2 fingers on XT brakes need to monitor their input more closely.

 

[Bigjunk1]

Yep, my XT's have very little throw and bite immediately..... They are however mounted correctly and as designed, for 1 finger braking.

OP, slide those levers closer to the stem, to where your index finger naturally rests right at the end of the lever in the crook (in Harold's 1st pic), and your issues will be gone.

The longer pull is not any big issue, just different and I am already getting use to it. Also, I do sometimes use one finger depending on what riding I am doing so I am not against it. I like the levers lined up for two fingers because generally that is more natural for me and what I tend to use the most. I can still go one finger easily the way they are but can also use two. Thanks

 

[incubus]

The longer pull is not any big issue, just different and I am already getting use to it. Also, I do sometimes use one finger depending on what riding I am doing so I am not against it. I like the levers lined up for two fingers because generally that is more natural for me and what I tend to use the most. I can still go one finger easily the way they are but can also use two. Thanks

It seems to me that lever placement that works for two finger braking is far from optimal for one finger braking. With 2 fingers, your middle finger will be nestled in the hook of the lever. If you then brake with one finger, one of two things will happen... either your index finger will be straight and pull the lever using less leverage than was intended. Or your index finger will be nestled in the hook but be bent at an awkward angle that will negatively impact your pulling force with that finger.

But as you'd said already, you'll likely get used to any setup that you have.

I love my m8000s

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Biohazard74]

Here is a question a bit off topic but still about the m8000's. I just ordered mine and they should be here in a few days... I currently have the stock crappy Formula C1's that came with my bike. I have a 180mm front and a 160mm rear. My question is in the front can i use the 180 adapter for the Formula caliper with the XT caliper? I think i read somewhere you could but thought i'd ask here to make sure. I am a noob when it comes to brake set ups and would hate to have to wait even longer after they get here because i dont have the right adapter. Thanks in advance

 

[D Bone]

Yes, you should be able to reuse your adapter. I actually prefer the 'look' of SRAM adapters and use those both front and rear for my X8000s, and while I don't have any firsthand experience with your Formula adapters, I can't see why they won't work.

 

[Biohazard74]

Yes, you should be able to reuse your adapter. I actually prefer the 'look' of SRAM adapters and use those both front and rear for my X8000s, and while I don't have any firsthand experience with your Formula adapters, I can't see why they won't work.

Thanks man. And now since you brought up looks I'm still going to check out the SRAM adapters. Looks can't hurt B)

 

[tehllama]

To be completely honest, I've found that the best upgrade for modulation on the XT (and SLX/Deore) brakes is larger rotors.

Might sound odd, but I feel that the modulation is primarily early in the travel, as the Servo-Wave seems to have a very spline-shaped power curve, so there's a LOT of modulation early on for low traction in most cases, then it hits a ramp-up area where they start making a lot more power. I think a lot of folks feel this and just write them off as having no modulation - it isn't the case, they're just not super linear.

The larger rotors just increase how much braking action is achievable in that more linear and sensitive first part of the travel, then that power ramps up a ton. [For reference, I'm 240lb geared up]. Running 203/180mm brake rotors with the semi-metallic pads means I have tons of excess power, and the net feel overall is a ramping progressive feel, with decent modulation for low grip, then power just starts coming on more and more until I hit the point where I lock up even on pavement and slickrock.

I still like Guide's a touch more, because they're linear everywhere and I feel that I have more useful modulation when there is grip and still have the low-traction modulation that I love about my XC bike's Avid Elixirs... but I have plenty of spares and a great reliability track record with my Shimano brakes, so it's not really worth a massive changeover.

My dream brake setups are still XTR-Race levers with Zee/Saint calipers, or taking Guide RE's and swapping the levers from Guide RSC's (get a set of Guide R's, and a set of RSC Guides with the Code calipers)

 

[alexbn921]

I have to agree with some of the other posters. Almost all new brakes are designed to be used with 1 finger. If you want a shorter pull make sure the contact adjust is all the way in as that will give you the shorts pul possible.
If that still isn't enough you can back out the contact adjustment all the way and bleed the leavers with the shimano funnel. just light pull the brakes and watch the bubbles come out. This will overfill the system and the contact adjustor will be able to push the pads even closer to the rotors. Not the best solution but fluid volume can be monkeyed with to change the feel of the leavers.