Definitely grab an Apple TV to go with your smart trainer. It’s the easiest way to use some of the 3rd party training apps with your trainer.

The incline numbers can be confusing. For example, most people keep zwift at the default setting of 50% difficulty. That means when zwift says 20% incline you are actually feeling 10%. You still have to put out the power to move your weight up the 20%. People do that because when you turn it to 100% the downhill part losses all resistance and pedaling inside sucks. And most people find 8% to be enough anyways.

The snap is the best wheel on option. I would just take one of those and see if it’s for you. Indoor training isn’t for everyone. You can probably find a deal on one from someone who didn’t actually use theirs.


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I would echo Mcfarton on the Apple TV (despite my strong aversion to Apple) and that it seems like few Zwifters will increase the difficulty level to 100% from the 50% default. It actually seems like most Zwifters will decrease the difficulty level of their trainer down to 20-30% for the races. The other item I would add is that it appears Saris is currently in receivership, so I would be concerned about future support and warranties from them. Here a few links which may help.

Saris Begins Process To Sell The Company: The Backstory On How It Ended Here

Over the last 3-4 months, Saris has worked tirelessly behind the scenes trying to avoid the fate that no business ever wants to face. However, in the last few weeks, it became clear there was no other option, as Saris

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

Yeah, the Apple TV is really easy to use with trainers.

I actually do increase the difficulty to 100% in Zwift.

I figure that if I'm using it to train for fitness when I'm actually outdoors, I better make it as lifelike as possible.

As for the actual trainers, I tend to fall on the spectrum of spend to get a really good one and actually have a shot of making indoor training tolerable. Basically, buy once, cry once.

I HATE wheel on trainers. I find that they are noisy, inaccurate and wheel slip sucks. I tried several of them at different points and it just resulted in me resisting even using the trainer.

The Wahoo Kickr direct trainers are a big step up from wheel on, but I hated the flywheels. They simply are not anywhere near realistic to me.

My current Tacx Neo 2T is awesome. As close to actually riding outdoors as you can get in my opinion.

 

I was trainer curious and started with a Kurt road machine with the inride pod. Gave me power readings for about $200. And made me really appreciate the refurbished kickr I bought 2 years later.

WRT Apple TV… I don’t see why. I got a cyber Tuesday return lg 50” tv at Best Buy two years ago for $150, smart tv supports all the streaming.

Mostly I do simulated climbs with synchronized video.

My advice is:
- Dip toe into trainer cheaply. Do you think you’re the sort of madman that will do hard rides at night?

-Forget swapping bikes. Pick a bike for the trainer and stick to it, why would you switch bikes? Trainer position is quite static and requires great precise fit. My trainer bike is a 90s mtb with an 8 speed cassette.

-Before you spend serious money, strongly recommend you spend time with a wheel on trainer. The tire wear and low torque really suck. Assuming you’re going to use it a wheel off trainer makes a horrible thing significantly less horrible. Think how you feel ‘failing’ 400 watt intervals because of tire slipping…

-explore the options with subscription trials. I can’t stand zwift. I love trainerroad. Lot of fitness to be gained when you can so precisely manage your fatigue. These days I do all the winter training on an original kickr with golden cheetah on an old windows tablet - because it’s free.

last thing, simulated gradients… what matters is your watts and the feel at the pedals. Folks get caught up in simulated reality but it doesn’t empirically matter what gear you’re in. Trainer’s resistance max depends on having a high enough wheel rpm, so to use a wheel on trainer you can’t be in your granny gear. My kickr can’t actually resist like a 20% climb if I’m in a granny gear, but it has enough to correctly model my singlespeed. Pretty much any trainer can create good simulated resistance and feel if you stay in a high enough gear. My point is that the % max that are advertised aren’t true, actual physical trainer limits are torque at rpm and that isn’t advertised because folks don’t know physics.

the zwift ‘simulated grade’ isn’t cheating, it lets you use a high gear on your bike so trainer can provide resistance, while virtually shifting you into a low gear so you can still climb the hills. Without that feature folks with crappy trainers would get tire slip on steep hills and not be able to make progress in the virtual world.

 

why would you switch bikes

There's three of us going to use it, and we're all different sizes. I'm already overflowing with bikes, another three bikes to devote to trainer duty would break me.

 

I have an old Saris Magneto trainer. It’s probably 15 years old and still works great. It’s not a “SMART” trainer of course, but that’s fine with me. Would be nice to have, but not needed for my purpose. I’ve used it for so long, I Have a number of workouts to do on it that help build or maintain fitness over the winter when I have to ride it, which is usually 1-2 a week (I purchased lights last year to help keep me out on the bike a bit). I don’t have any tire slip or issues of that, and it works well for the sprints and tabata efforts I do as well.

For what they cost, it’s nice to have. I leave my old road bike on it year round, but I realize that won’t work for you. But easy connection on and off, that it does provide.

 

After the wheel on trainer for several years I bit the bullet(well my wife did) and picked up a Stages SB20. It is definitely an upgrade....lol. I did find that my power numbers matched up with my old wheel on dumb trainer with a cadence and wheel speed sensors. Like has been mentioned, wheel slippage is a big deal on wheel on trainers. Lots of good advice given already so won't rehash. That said, the "whole hog" trainer is hyper adjustable and really easy to set up for individual riders. I love the dual power meters, just because I am a stats geek.

I do not use it much in the summer but once thelight starts going away it gets used a lot. I just run an ipad in the mount, but I have a buddy with the same bike(and his dad too) He runs through apple TV with a 40" tv. I don't mind the smaller Ipad screen. I exclusively use Zwift. Have not tried the other stuff, but am kind of vested in the one I have at this point.

I do run my zwift at 100%...lol.

After and before.....

Regardless of whatever you do, better than sitting on the couch eating potato chips. I am not a serious competitive rider. I ride for fun, and even though riding the trainer still sucks, at least it keeps me in shape. I ride virtually with my buddy and his dad and we push each other pretty hard.

Oh, and if a person wanted too, you can set this one up to mimic a mountain bike.

 

Just get a set of rollers and be done with it. Mine can be setup with a fork attachment to turn it into a stationary bike. Truth be told I'm only good for short 3-5 min spurts on the rollers. You have to spin pretty fast and not let up to keep your balance.

Yes that is a stepping stool. Being disabled and unable to walk without aid sucks. My favorite exercises are in the supine position!

 

I have the Wahoo KICKR bike, Wahoo fan and desk, Wahoo TICKR Fit HR monitor, Apple TV and Zwift setup that my daughter and I use. I have had it now for over 1.5 years. While we both use it regularly, it gets a lot more use in the shoulder seasons. The biggest advantage of the dedicated bike is that I can change its set up in about 30 seconds, to accommodate either her or me. Setting the bike up for back training is simple and quick.

It still sucks compared to riding outside, but I am blown away by the set up. I feel like I have cutting edge tech once available only to elite Russian athletes. The scientific precision made available is super exciting. All you need is time and motivation to be able to optimize your training. The boredom is outweighed by the knowledge that I am able to precisely, easily and automatically control power (and heart rate) to stay within Zone 2, for example, for as long as I want - something not easily possible for me to do outside.

I could go down one of many rabbit holes talking about this set up, but it suffices to say that for me, the only downside was cost.

It’s tough getting motivated to train indoors, doing 2+ hours of ERG controlled Zone 2 or SST training. But with this set up, I am at least able to tolerate it. Sometimes I even look forward to it. The gains on the trail have been very noticeable for both myself and my daughter.

 

Before I moved 625 miles south, I'd ride rollers in the winter. I could get 30-45 minutes in on the rollers while watching some ice hockey before I got really bored. I don't miss riding indoors, so I wish you luck!

Thankfully I ride outdoors around the calendar, whether commuting or mtb or dirt/gravel/woods. We only have a few days a year of snow and/or ice. On those days I'm happy just to walk or hike and do some pushups.

 

Thankfully I ride outdoors around the calendar, whether commuting or mtb or dirt/gravel/woods.

I used to ride year round. We get enough cold and snow that I bought a fatty and I'd get out once or twice a month at least. That's been less and less the past couple years and I didn't ride snow at all last year, and only ventured out on the trail bike on a few unseasonably warm 40+ days. And working from home now, I don't commute at all. My fitness is always garbage, but this spring it was really really bad. I gotta do somethin'...

 

I'm glad this thread came up, but please be gentle on me! With 2 kids and a demanding job, I am busy as hell so the limited time I get to ride, it is always outside. On the many days I can't ride, I figured why not buy a smart trainer and ride when everyone is in bed so I bought a wahoo kickr 2 years ago. Unfortunately its been in my basement as a heavy ass boat anchor since I bought it and has never been used (it's out of the box at least ). I figured I would give it a shot once it gets cold and dark here in a few months. I have an old road bike that I will connect it to that I wont be taking on and off the trainer that often. So my question is what is the easiest way to set it up and get going? I have the trainer and that is it. I dont care about racing or power numbers, etc. I just want to get on it and ride for a good workout without mindlessly staring at a wall. Can I just buy a smart TV and the Apple TV box and just run the zwift app off that? I am not tech savy when it comes to electronics/computers so I just want something that is as close to plug and play as possible and something like a small TV to use. No way I am going to try to use an Iphone or laptop to run zwift off of because that's just too small of a screen. Thanks for any input

 

The answer is yes. Apple TV + any old TV (with an HDMI jack) + Zwift has been great. Dead simple to use. I gave up on my Apple Watch for HR though and bought the KICKR TICKR Fit, which has also been great. That was the only glitch for me.

 

So whatever I end up with, I was planning on running Zwift (or whatever) on an Android tablet outputted to a TV screen. I know nothing about iThingies and the Appleverse, in what ways would an Apple TV be better?

 

When I first started I used an iPhone for trainerroad. Everything just worked, super easy, automagical. Later I wanted to try golden cheetah so setup an old surface tablet I got for $100, then also a special ble dongle, drivers, a cable… it’s a bit of a chore to get it working. Now I can use hdmi cable to display whatever I like on the tv too, it’s pretty great. But wires and interface isn’t very convenient. I sometimes miss the old days where it was me and my phone on a desk next to me.

The lg tv I bought lets an iPhone project to it wirelessly, I think it might support android too.

In theory android can just work but I hear a lot of complaints.

 

My ipad isn't that new and it runs zwift. You can run most apps on your phone if you can stand the small screen. Zwift has a companion app that you can run on the phone as well in addition to your main display. I don't train seriously. I just try and push as many watts as I can for an hour or so. Ive done most of the big "climbs" which can be kinda fun. I was going to go the wahoo kickr route but the wife picked it up for me and who am I to say no. At least now I have my road bike back for the rare time I get on the road.

It is nice to be able to just go up and jump on the bike and not drive 15 to 45 minutes to the trails when you are just looking for a workout.

 

If you want the budget-but-still-smart option -

I use a Tacx Flow - I use it 3-4 days a week for 30-1 hr typically. I've had it since 2020. I wouldn't worry about the simulated gradient and all that, even my Flow (cheapest name brand smart trainer) has more than enough resistance, just not at the absolute extreme end if you're trying to do 10sec sprint workouts.

Some issues & ovservations:
-I don't mind the wheel on trainer that much. Makes it easy to pop it on and off. Maybe every few months the adjuster needs a turn.
-I don't use a trainer tire since I still use my bike outside. I use Diamondback 700c tires I bought in bulk off ebay for $11/each. Swap and toss. They last a decent amount of time and tire wear is a non-issue.
-Flow will overheat on very long inclines on Zwift. A fan pointed at the unit stops this issue. 95% I don't bother with the fan and it's only happened maybe 3 times total.
-I smoked a resistance unit. Garmin replaced it for free. I've read lots of reports of the high end units going bad so I'd avoid anything without a warranty.
-I race on my Flow but there's definitely a lag that requires a bit of extra planning
-Once the novelty wears off, Zwift is still super boring if you just ride aimlessly. Workouts and group rides make time go a lot faster.
-I honestly don't know how anyone can do rides longer than 1.5 hours. That's my absolute limit of comfort and boredom. I prefer short high intensity rides a few times a week.
-My old speedplay pedal & cleats were horrible. Metallic cleats in a small room are loud. Shimano SPD-SL are much quieter with the plastic cleat.

Not a perfect experience, but still OK.

 

DCrainmaker has very detailed reviews. I advise spending the money for a direct drive trainer if you can afford it. On the climbing incline part of your question, the quoted % grade might not be the actual number for you. That's an idealized figure for a light rider at a particular cadence. Most people will see less than the quoted figure.

 

Never understood the "downhill" part of riding on a trainer. If you can simulate and incline that's cool... but downhill? Flat or incline but recording elevation should always be zero. And so should "miles." It really is minutes and watts.

Rant over. haha

 

Even if you can only do 80$ for a used Apple TV it’s the way to go. It just works. It works every time. No one has ever said that about anything android/pc. You don’t need extra dongles or other stuff. Simple is something people do.


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I think training indoors will wear off quickly on your family once they get started. The gamification is a great added touch compared to old days, but it's still riding your bike and looking at a screen with a pile of sweat and a roaring fan going. I would focus on your needs and try to find a way to get their bikes adapted to a direct drive trainer. Instead of buying everyone a new bike maybe you could get everyone to an 11 speed drivetrain. HG cassettes are still available and just need a shifter and derailleur.

 

iPad's work very well as well.

But, I do prefer the Apple TV attached to a 55" screen in the workshop. Because it looks more badass, and we all know looking badass instantly makes you faster.

Yes, even when you're riding online.

On my way to my trainer, I walk through house announcing the important information that my family needs to know:

 

I much prefer Sufferfest vids to zwift. The gamification stuff is overrated. Nothing provides a more effective workout than the sufferfest imo.

 

The gamification from Zwift works really well for me.

I get competitive against myself, looking to improve. I also get that natural competitiveness from riding in real time with other riders.

If I see H.R. Shovenstuff coming up behind me, or ahead of me I naturally get competitive and push where I might otherwise spin through a section.

It also helps to deliver my needed doses of humble pie when H.R. Shovenstuff hands me my keister on a silver platter...

 

Apple TV supports zwift, Rouvy and FulGaz. Zwift is the number one app outside of peloton. Everything else is way behind. Find what works for you.

The reality is your bike isn’t going anywhere. It’s just exercise. It’s not for everyone.


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I’ll have to try a modern trainer one of these days, I normally train indoors on rollers while watching Netflix.

 

Sufferfest workouts are really fun. They were free when i first got my inride. I think still free all over the internet.

i remember not trusting the results of my ftp tests until id done ‘revolver’ at the new number.BUT you cant do five a week or youll get cooked. Theyre remarkably fine workouts but ive never seen a sufferfest video.

zwift… i dont get it. You guys literally ride around and ‘race’ strangers that appear to pass you? I cant get past the nintendo graphics. The cartoon graphics and the pain are enraging to me, and no way to stop cheats.

for people recommending apple tv: why use it instead of a phone projecting to smart tv? Already have a phone, tv is needed too… apple tv seems like a redundant middleman.

 

zwift… i dont get it. You guys literally ride around and ‘race’ strangers that appear to pass you? I cant get past the nintendo graphics. The cartoon graphics and the pain are enraging to me, and no way to stop cheats.

for people recommending apple tv: why use it instead of a phone projecting to smart tv? Already have a phone, tv is needed too… apple tv seems like a redundant middleman.

Zwift isn't just aimlessly riding around. There's organized races, pacing bots that ride around, group rides with podcasts that play in the background, segments where you can unlock stuff. The developer is far, far, far from the best (seriously the menu was SO bad forever and ending a ride on PC exited out completely every time). I could care less about cheats. I guess I can't stop you from being mad at...graphics? That's a you thing I think.

Zwift should probably overhaul their Workouts at some point. Most of them are needlessly complex for no reason and there's a billion of them. I'll find one I like that's just the right length/intensity like the Nino Shurter workout but it'll throw in a high power/super low cadence section which my trainer can barely simulate and requires standing which sucks on a trainer.

I personally wouldn't run a graphics heavy program on my phone for hours at a time. I rely on my phone for a lot of things and don't want to smoke the battery. AppleTV is ideal. Relatively cheap and runs Zwift stable.

 

I have the wahoo Kickr and use Zwift with a gaming PC. The most important thing is to have a fan.

 

I find Airdyne-like bikes are best for MTB types of training. I do intervals for an hour where every 10 minutes of seated pedaling I do max standup efforts of to almost failure then go back to seated position. The load of Airdyne simulates constant moderate inclines and standups efforts simulate steep inclines pretty well. The only problem for me is the funky seated position and feet being too far apart. Otherwise it is great.

 

What about simulating real roads/trails, is that a thing beyond the most popular routes? Do those have to be custom programmed, or is there an app that will just reach out to a Trailforks link or .gpx file and recreate an elevation profile?

 

There's one called RGT Cycling that had that feature. I had it installed for a bit. Basically you pedal a virtual avatar around captured roads and there was a way to link it to . It was kind of cool but I only used it a few times. Wahoo bought it and not sure what happened after that.