The best winter jacket i had was a hand-me-down from a friend. The fact that it was blue and matched my bike was even better.

The 2nd best is an Ortovox with a very VERY thin layer of wool, but the ability to open up with big chest vents and unzip. It can get a little clammy...but far less than most I've used.

The best solution I've come upon is watch the sales and clearance stuff and get a variety of jackets. Some days a wind-breaker over base layer is the ticket, some rainy days it's a rain-shell, some days it's a real light softshell, some days it's heavier one, etc. One jacket to do it all is chasing your tail IME. My Endura MT500 is pretty crap, it doesn't breathe. Even though it has all the vents in the world...the material is just too thick. IME, vents aren't all that, the fabric has to be pretty breathable in the first place. Zipper is the ultimate vent and if that doesn't largely do the job, it's more of a fabric problem.

Whatever you use IME, you are trying to use a base layer and outer layer. More than that=sweat/wet unless it's way in the -F temps.

And to add to the best solution, the other part of it is always bringing the "next heavier" layer in your frame bag. Some days THAT is a windbreaker, or rain shell (extremely wind-proof), or down puffy. That way you can put something on if you get cold, but you can start colder and warm up, rather than sweating.

And yes, a rear pocket should be mandatory...but there are so few decent "riding" jackets in the first place. This is where you can put your battery for your headlamp.

Agree on the waterproof thing.

 

My Endura MT500 is pretty crap, it doesn't breathe. Even though it has all the vents in the world...the material is just too thick.

Jayem, that MT500 jacket is on-sale for $110 right now. Not worth it?

 

You can thank me later.

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You can thank me later.

But it's not requisite, correct?

 

I usually only put on down for the -20F rides and such. At exertion levels it's way too warm IME. It's a good backup cuz it packs small.

 

This is light and very breathable. Everything this company makes is amazing.

 

Fishman, when you say winter, what are the actual conditions and temps you typically ride in - PNW rain and wet snow, or mid-west very cold and windy but dry?

Because I'd go with very different gear for each of those climates. And generally I'd agree with Jayem that there isn't one perfect jacket for all conditions. If it's dry but cold and breezy I usually just add a base wicking layer and wool layer, with a light wind breaker and arm warmers and warmer gloves. If it's windier I'll probably just use a heavier wind proof layer. It is usually my hands and feet that get cold first. I start with fewer layers than I think I'll need until I warm up. You can always ride harder to generate more heat : )

Rain is a different beast that I don't deal with often anymore. If it's wet I have a couple rain jackets though they aren't designed for biking and lack venting zips. If it's raining hard enough to put them on, I'll do so but probably remove some other layers. If I lived somewhere it rains a lot there are some good biking specific rain jackets out there. You might need to travel to a city like Vancouver or Portland to try them on though.

 

Fishman, when you say winter, what are the actual conditions and temps you typically ride in - PNW rain and wet snow, or mid-west very cold and windy but dry?

I'm in the Midwest. This being the fat bike forum, I figured we'd be on the same page about riding in snow or at least in below-freezing weather. I don't know about "dry" though, relative humidity over the next week is forecast to range from 45% to 85% (with only one day getting above freezing), which does reduce how much moisture a jacket and move away from your body. In my experience, there's a noticeable difference between a Midwest cold and humid, and cold but dry and sunny conditions like you get in the Intermountain West.

As I have been shopping I was surprised that many 'winter' jackets are indeed marketed towards PNW conditions, even though relatively few people ride in those cool (but above freezing) and wet conditions. But I guess all the hip and influential people do 🤷‍♂️. And probably a lot of winter clothing designers live in that intermountain west winter climate, or southern California, so they're dealing with pretty mild conditions. And i suspect few of them ever ride in challenging snow conditions. At least that's my head cannon as to why so many of these jackets seem so poorly designed.

I agree that there isn't One-Jacket-To-Rule-Them-All. I feel like my post didn't dictate a single type of coat. Some need to be more breathable, others more windproof. Some more insulated than others, and combinations there-of. There are probably several good ways to configure zippered ventilation.... but the thing is, there are almost no winter riding jackets that offer pit zips at all.

As an example, just picked-up an Endura Windchill Jacket 2 because that one actually does have pit zips, and it was 50% off (right there with ya Jayem!). Turns out the zipper is only 8" long and when you zip it open there is more fabric underneath. It's thin, breathable fabric, but.... why? And somehow, it's even LESS breathable than the PI Amfib jacket I bought last year, which is an absolute steam bath. I think I'm going to have to return it.

I also just bought a 45Nrth Naughtvind jacket (60% off), which on their website says is rated 0°F to 25°F.... f*@%ing thing isn't insulated at all! Breathability is OK, would work great if it was coupled with some ventilating zippers. It says on the web page "VENTILATION: Zip-closure back ventilation. Grid-knit fleece side panels." OK Cool.... except the zippered ventilation is only like 4" of zipper, and it's right in the middle of the breathable "grid-knit fleece" in a pretty useless spot for a vent. It is an OK jacket, and I think I'm going to keep it as it's the only one I have around that breaths even a bit. But what kills me is that 45Nrth sells it for $300 MRSP. You could do nearly as well with a $60 warm-up jacket. I think it's just barely worth the $118 I paid for it. It has really brought my opinion of 45NRTH down quite a few notches.

Sorry to vent on you all. But if my jackets can't vent, at least I can.

 

Check out Nordic ski jackets, e.g. Swix. They won't have the neon bright colors though.

 

This is light and very breathable. Everything this company makes is amazing.

I don't doubt it. And I'm sure that jacket is worth the $300 it goes for. A bit too rich for my blood at the moment, but something to keep-in-mind for the future.

Check out Nordic ski jackets, e.g. Swix. They won't have the neon bright colors though.

I'm going to take a look at some XC ski jackets when I next get the chance. Obviously they are busting-ass in the same kind of conditions we are, so ski jackets are probably better suited to winter fat/MTB riding than most cycling jackets are going to be. I just don't want to dive in site-unseen. REI has a couple, I'll have to research where-else I can find some locally.

 

This one gets good reviews.

 

Had the zipper replaced last year on my old Bellwether jacket. I have no idea how long I have had it. 10+ years??? Has wicking material on the arms as well as the back. I can wear it in a wide range of temperatures. Only place i have found them is on Ebay. Currently 3 smalls on Ebay. Here is one: Bellwether Cycling Jacket S Men Black Full Zip Back Pockets Poly YGI B2-227 | eBay

 

Check out jackets that use Primaloft or Polartec Alpha insulation. Those are both thin, moderatly warm and breathable.

I have Endura Pro SL Primaloft Jacket which ticks many boxes. It doesn't have ventilation zippers but the main construction matches your description. Has rear pockets, two way zipper, is made in orange color. Works well for me.

Endura UK

Men's Pro SL PrimaLoft® Jacket II - Deep Teal

www.endurasport.com

Mavic has similar jacket:

KSYRIUM THERMO JACKET M - Mavic

Innovative thermoregulation (Polartec® Alpha®), wind-block and water-repellent properties, compressibility, this is the recipe that makes our ksyrium Thermo jkt a versatile jacket for autumn and spring. A must-have for many other outdoor activities.

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@FishMan473 - I would absolutely recommend you check out the Rab Borealis jacket. It's a stretch woven windshirt which is incredibly breathable but still gives good protection from wind and light moisture. Anything with a WP membrane isn't going to breathe well enough to allow moisture to escape in cold conditions.
I also prefer uninsulated shells so I can adjust my base and midlayers to suit, and also easily remove it when necessary to avoid overheating. Underneath I'll wear a mesh base layer with either a thin power stretch or thicker fleece, depending on the temperature and type of ride I'm doing. Then have some synthetic puffy layer (vest, jacket or both) to layer on top during stops.
Another jacket which I've found perfect for dry winter conditions is my Montane Protium XT, it's like a fleece and softshell had a kid - crazy breathable and wicks moisture well, but you'll need something to put on top in case of snow as it's not water resistant in any way. Patagonia R2 Techface and 7mesh Chilco use the same fabric if they're easier to get in the US.
Hope that helps!

 

After a bunch of trial and error and a pile of jackets in my closet, I’ve pretty much determined that the shell and layer route works best for me. For the shell-Anything insulated is too warm above 0F, anything waterproof becomes a sweat bag after about 30 min, and shells can be too breathable it turns out.

I’ve been using the Naughtvind so far this winter and it’s done well in the 0-30F range with various layers. I too wish the vents were bigger and brighter colors would be nice, but for the $82 I paid for it, I feel I’m getting my monies worth.

 

I love my Castelli Gore-Tex Infinium long sleeve jersey/soft shell for winter riding. Windproof/water resistant and depending on temperature I use either a heatgear or coldgear mock, underarmour baselayer.

 

I'm not going to give you a brand and model, because there isn't any jacket on the planet that will do everything, all the time. But looking at alternatives to plastic might be helpful to you like waxed cotton or wool. Or, technical plastics like soft shells if you don't need to outright rain protection. Waxed cotton breathes, but is also stiffer, which allows it to stand away from your inner layers better and "stovepipe" out, excess moist air more quickly as you move. Not for everyone, but a great option depending on how and where you ride. Centuries of humans survived with nothing better than that technology.

What it sounds like (or at least you don't mention it) is that you don't actively participate in your comfort. I learned this winter camping with scouts as a kid, and it got hammered into us, on increasingly longer, and colder trips.

That starts before the ride. Where are you going, what are the prevailing conditions there? Expected temps? Expected exertion levels?

All that gets acknowledged before you gear up.

All my winter "active outdoor" clothing is full zip, and all shells will have pit zips. I don't care how many layers, or what type, you unzip all till cold air is ripping across your bare chest, you WILL cool off.

Getting warm? First thing, dump the hat and perhaps peel back the pogies if youre using them. Cooling off the extremities, sends colder blood back to your core. Still too warm? Then start unzipping/zipping, to manage.

If you're sweating, you waited too long.

Choose layers based on your preride observations. A thin layer and shell? Thicker layer and shell? Thin, plus vest, plus shell, (then dump vest into bag if it gets too warm), next level colder, swap out the vest for a fleece or puffy that does the same job, on or off as heat dictates.

Many cycling pants will have vents well positioned on the legs to allow heat dumping, and opening the fly on your pants will channel cold air over your groin which is also, surprisingly effective in heat management.

"A winter cycling jacket" isn't a singular, cold killing tool. It's part of a much broader, and variable eco system of garments, that get blended to work with your needs.

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Brands like Filson offer waxed canvas too, $$$, but well made, and worth it, as well as usable across a wide array of activities and burly/repairable enough to hand down to your grand kids.

 

I'm not going to give you a brand and model, because there isn't any jacket on the planet that will do everything, all the time. But looking at alternatives to plastic might be helpful to you like waxed cotton or wool. Or, technical plastics like soft shells if you don't need to outright rain protection. Waxed cotton breathes, but is also stiffer, which allows it to stand away from your inner layers better and "stovepipe" out, excess moist air more quickly as you move. Not for everyone, but a great option depending on how and where you ride. Centuries of humans survived with nothing better than that technology.

What it sounds like (or at least you don't mention it) is that you don't actively participate in your comfort. I learned this winter camping with scouts as a kid, and it got hammered into us, on increasingly longer, and colder trips.

That starts before the ride. Where are you going, what are the prevailing conditions there? Expected temps? Expected exertion levels?

First off, I have to admit I'm a bit insulted that you would suggest I don't "actively participate in [my] comfort".

Dude, I've been riding year round for over 30 years. I know how to dress for the cold, I know how to layer, I know how to adjust, adjust my pace to adjust my temperature, pack alternative layers with me, etc. The point of this thread is that every winter cycling jacket I have tried in the past year is quite a lot worse as an outer layer for winter riding than the Columbia OmniTech jacket I bought in 1993... which wasn't even a cycling jacket.

Now to your point about natural fabrics, I do think there's something to that. I will say for casual around-town riding, a denim or heavy canvas cotton pants are a great outer layer, an appropriate amount of wind blocking and breathability. I used just plain bluejeans as my outer layer back in the day. But cotton holds water too well, I remember coming back with my pants frozen solid below my knee several times. I feel like a jean jacket would wet-out too fast.

I don't have much experience with waxed cotton, but my impression from the few times I have used it (mostly very old backpacking gear in Boy Scouts) is that it wouldn't breath well enough. Its also heavy.

Now heavy wool is a good idea. I have long thought that a heavy-weave wool with a thin nylon layer on the front-facing areas would make a great winter jacket. I'm thinking like a wool sweater with a dense weave and a zipper front. The nylon would need to be lighter than say, Cordura, but probably heavier than Supplex or similar nylon you'd find on a fly-fishing shirt. If I knew how to use a sewing machine I'd totally make something like this. And I think it would be smart for a manufacturer to develop something like this, as I'm sure it could have a casual Jason appeal in addition to working well on the bike.

 

Genuine wool (used) from ebay along with base layers and maybe a light over-jacket and I'm good. The button fronts allow for ventilation, the material is tough and mostly breathable, and they can be had cheap.

 

Assos. They're perfect for winter riding if you can swallow the prices. Past models usually on sale.

 

There’s no one jacket that suits all conditions.

Once you accept this ^ , then you’re ready to dress for success.

1) insulated jackets are never suitable for aerobic activities. They get hot, they hold moisture, and they are less breathsble

Pick a shell that suits the conditions, then layer as needed.

This ^ is all you need to for success.

I have a variety of shells, from highly breathable to highly waterproof. You can’t have both, one jacket will always be a compromise.

 

There’s no one jacket that suits all conditions.

Once you accept this ^ , then you’re ready to dress for success.

1) insulated jackets are never suitable for aerobic activities. They get hot, they hold moisture, and they are less breathsble

Pick a shell that suits the conditions, then layer as needed.

This ^ is all you need to for success.

I have a variety of shells, from highly breathable to highly waterproof. You can’t have both, one jacket will always be a compromise.

Insulated has a very wide range of meanings and situations IMO, so I won't say that insulated jackets are never suitable, but whatever it is it needs to actually breathe and insulation does directly affect this. I have thinner and thicker soft-shells. I have one nylon windbreaker that has a strange "mesh" thing inside the torso, it's crazy lightweight and packable though...but technically that's insulation, and it breathes excellent. But bottom line, it must breathe well and a large portion of "winter gear" is directed at protecting from rain, which basically works like crap in cold conditions for breathability. XC skiing "gets it" far better than mtb, so that's usually a good place to look.

Layers affect this too, if you are putting on more than 2 layers, you are significantly affecting the ability to breathe IME. That may be good, because in -30 you need the insulation, but much of the time, people layer on because they've always been told to and then they can't get at their base layer to ventilate, such as unzipping, pushing sleeves up, etc. People tend to think one-way as far as layers, that more is better, but how do you take off a layer and where do you put it?

The extra layer comes with you, so you can put it on when necessary.

I try to study what other people do that complain about getting wet and sweating and they are often dressed up like you'd see someone at the North Pole, or putting on wool layers that trap moisture, with 3 layers on, with waterproof layers, and so on. It's possible to be totally comfortable, but I highly agree that one jacket isn't going to do it. You need insulation when it's really cold...but you need to be able to remove it and breathe when your exertion goes up.

My rule is still, bring the jacket you think you'll need for most of the time during the ride. And start out cold. Bring the emergency-jacket in the frame bag, pouch, feed-bag, etc. You can easily fit a waterproof shell in the smaller stuff if you don't have a hardtail with a frame-bag.

When it gets real cold (real cold is -20 and colder ) or I'm going out in a real remote location that is the same temp, I do the same thing with the bottom layer, either a full-zip set of rain pants (because they trap heat well) or a full-zip set of puffy mountaineering pants. Both can be put on/taken off over everything without removing any clothes.

 

What I found works for me is Swix XC pants, Pearl Izumi hooded rain jacket (with pit zips) over fleece layers. Pit zips are the key to keep from overheating

 

I've found anything road based is not going to breath well enough at most fatbike speeds. Windbreaking on front of chest and sleeves with breathable on back works best. Sides can get chilly when it's really cold but most of the time breathable side material works well. Mechanical venting helps. Maybe even take your jacket to a tailor and add vents. I had mine add forearm, tricep, and side vents. It helps but I still can get too sweaty. For insulation, I've found polartec alpha direct does well. Wind will blow right through it so when used with a well vented jacket you can dump heat and moisture really quickly.

 

The roadie cycling jackets are spectacularly good nowadays. I have a Castelli one that has a really large effective temperature range.

But for proper cold -10C or colder Nordic ski clothing is the way to go. Hard to beat a jacket that was specifically designed for a high thermal output in cold weather.

 

I bought a Castelli Perfetto ROS Convertible jacket 2 years ago and it still doesn't breath well enough. My arms are the worst. I get frost built up inside the jacket. Not sure I could dress any lighter either or I'd be frozen. I've tried it from 0F to 40F.

Prior to that was a Giordana AV Extreme Light. I had the vents added to that. Also noticed the membrane inside is cracking after a couple years and following their washing instructions. It probably just didn't like negative F temperatures.

 

On the road the wind is a huge cooling effect, like skiing downhill. When that wind doesnt exist…things get harder for clothing.

 

-20c today. Ran a poly base, fleece mid, and a 7mesh chilco, was absolutely perfect.

7 mesh breathes, protects from wind and i warm,

 

I think you're right, winter cycling jackets just aren't up to par. I much prefer clothes made for alpinism and other cold weather gear made for variable conditions and high energy output. My two favorite tops are from Icebreaker and Rab (with the Rab being the heavier of the two), both with wind shedding arms and torso, but open back. No zips for venting, no pockets in back, just simple tops. I layer under them as needed.

I have only one bike specific piece of winter clothing, a pair of Club Ride Fat Jack pants. I like those a lot, but I also ride with a pair of OR Cirque pants and Haglofs Rugged Mountain pants.

 

That original ‘vent’ seems completely mad to me. All you guys complaining you’re expecting magic. There’s no shell in the world that can keep you warm and dry in every condition and at every level of exertion.

in mountaineering we are switching and adjusting layers all the time, it’s what you do. Too hot is worse than being too cold. Zippers and vents and a bunch of space ready to hold the layers..

I’ve experimented with simple coated nylon with giant vents and pit zips and it showed me how wonderful the breathable fabrics are - like even gore Tex. Not good enough but wow are they better than not breathable. But there’s no shell that can keep up with my sweat when it’s above freezing, add rain into the mix which blocks the venting and it’s a swamp inside.

I’d never combine insulation with a shell because I always want a choice.

For this conversation to have any progress you need to start with your temps and moisture ‘winter’ isn’t specific, and then your exertion level.

I think dressing is easy when it’s dry and or below freezing. When it’s raining and I’m riding hard I wear wool and get soaked.

maybe what you’re looking for is a vest with the dial and the power tool battery inside.

 

I live in the midwest as well and own three coats. All for fat biking on single track trails. I don't do any winter commuting or any sort of road riding in the winter.

Above 30° to about 40° I use this one. The black panels are the breathable panels. The rest is wind blocking.

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20°-30° I use this one. Front is windproof. Back and under arms are breathable material.

Men's Attack AmFIB® Lite Jacket

Men's Attack AmFIB® Lite Jacket delivers windproof, water-resistant performance, keeping you warm and dry during winter training rides.

www.pearlizumi.com

10°-20° I use this one and will zipper down if I get a little to warm.

Men's Quest AmFIB® Jacket

The Men's Quest AmFIB® Jacket delivers unbeatable warmth, windproofing, and water resistance for winter rides.

www.pearlizumi.com

Below 10°...Eff that...I'm staying indoors or going to the gym.

 

20°-30° I use this one. Front is windproof. Back and under arms are breathable material.

Men's Attack AmFIB® Lite Jacket

Men's Attack AmFIB® Lite Jacket delivers windproof, water-resistant performance, keeping you warm and dry during winter training rides.

www.pearlizumi.com

Are you sure yours is the Attack Amfib Lite? I have this jacket in pavement grey, I bought it last year. It definitely does not have the breathable fabric on the underside of the arms. The back is breathable, but the whole rest of it is a sweat bucket. I had an older Amfib jacket, I think it was called an Amfib Elite, that did have breathable fabric on the underside of the arm that made a huge difference. My wife put a pit zip into that jacket for me and it was a 'good enough' winter jacket for many years.

I did a 25F road ride Monday night in the grey Attack Amfib jacket, man it was steamy. Same old situation: I was wet and sweaty, but it was too cold/windy to tolerate the wind chill if I zip down the front. I had to ask my riding buddy to slow down so I could cool-off. Its a very thin line with that jacket, if you don't go hard-enough you won't be warm, but if you go too hard, any sweat at all just sticks around and I get soaked. And sadly, this was the exact intended purpose of the jacket. If the Amfib fabric just breathed a bit better, even at the expense of blocking the wind a little less, it would be a better jacket.

I am considering having pit zips put in (though my wife said "never again" to installing pit zips, so I guess I'll have to pay for it), and it should be good-enough for road riding, but not suitable for fat biking or errand running.

 

I'm a little worried I'll jynx myself by posting this. I've been using a Gore Winter Cycling Jacket since ~2016.

• Fabrics should provide a balance of windproofing and breathability. Check. The front of the jacket is little more windproof than the backside.
• Insulation. The jacket is good below 35F if its not too sunny. If its sunny its good below 20F. Most times, I wear just a (Smartwool) short sleeve base layer beneath the jacket. If its going to be a slower ride, I'll wear a long sleeve (instead of SS) Smartwool base layer. I have not been cold/chilled in this jacket until the post-ride BS sessions start and we're cooing down. In fact, I cannot wear this jacket casually because I'll overheat. I usually don't put the jacket on until we're wheels down.
• Substantial venting options. My jacket's a little deficient here. Full zip with micro perforated arm pits. Still works but optional zippers on the sides would be an improvement.
• Visible. Lots of reflective piping and logos. But I don't ride the road. And especially don't ride the road during the winter.
• Good Fit. Try before you buy or buy the 2 closest sizes and return one.
• Useful pockets. Five useful pockets. All zippered, the two on the backside are at a 45 degree angle to make zipping easier.

If you haven't tried Gore Cycling apparel, give them a shout. The jacket is fully washable and water proof. A 20min session on tumble dry low in the dryer is all that's required to reactive the water proof once the jacket is line dried.

 

I'm a little worried I'll jynx myself by posting this. I've been using a Gore Winter Cycling Jacket since ~2016.
....
If you haven't tried Gore Cycling apparel, give them a shout. The jacket is fully washable and water proof. A 20min session on tumble dry low in the dryer is all that's required to reactive the water proof once the jacket is line dried.

I'm curious, do you know exactly what your jacket is? I looked extensively at Gorewear. Anything Gor-Tex is automatically out for not breathing. My experience with Windstopper is that it is great at stopping the wind, but breaths just OK. I have an old Cabela's Windstopper fleece jacket that is nice for errends/commuting and very cold (around 0F) conditions on the trail, but doesn't breath well-enough for more typical conditions. But maybe there are different grades of Windstopper, some being more breathable than others? Their website doesn't mention anything like that, so I have to assume it's all the same.... And then there is the PFAS issue, which both Gore-Tex and Windstopper contain.

The other thing about Gorewear, is that they are a good example of a poorly done website with a lot of photos, but few that are useful and very unclear descriptions. For example, the Everyday Windstopper Jacket is described as:

• Highly breathable, quick-drying materials
• Partially windproof and water-resistant

Are they trying to BS us into thinking windstopper is breathable? Or does the "partially" mean that it's partially windstopper and is breathable material elsewhere? Photos make it look like the same material everywhere, but I shouldn't have to guess at this. It has zipper front pockets, they look pretty big from the photo, are they venting pockets, or do they have another layer of windstopper behind them? There's no way to know. No photos to show what the insulating inner material is like, you can kind-of see it in one photo, but it's too small to see any detail. Details matter, if you're trying to sell products online, you need to do a better job of sharing the details of those products.