[EthanRevGrips]

Hello
I Would like to put a Vivid Air on the 2023 Spectral On. Do you suggest R55 or R25? C30 or C34? Which is the difference? Thank you very much 🙏

R refers to the rebound tune. The higher the number the faster the rebound. So R55 is alot faster than R25 I’d recommend going for a faster rebound tune if you’re running anything under about 215psi. The C refers to the compression tune the higher the number the stiffer/heavier the compression tune. So C34 is going to be stiffer than C30. I don’t this one is a little harder to decide but if you’re on one end of the compression either fully open or fully closed choose accordingly.

The third number to take into consideration is the X either X2 or X4 refers to the threshold/climb switch. The higher the number the more the switch will do when closed.

For example on my Dreadnought V2 I’m running a R85C26X4 with 2 clicks of rebound -1 HSC -1 LSC with 170psi. I found that in alot of cases the X4 is almost too stiff for anything but a road climb.

 

[WasatchEnduro]

That’s a tough one for me haha. The Vivid works great for a lot of people but mine hasn’t worked correctly since I got it.

I bought a Forbidden Dreadnought V2 frame it came with a Vivid Ultimate and built it up. On the first compression it made a clicking noise when it passed the dimple/equalizer port. I sent it in for service and it had a damaged air which they replaced along with a 200hr service on because the damaged can made the shock not equalize properly creating the clicking noise.

I got it back a week later bolted it up and on the first compression it made the same exact noise.

Been riding it with the clicking noise ever since because when the shock heats up the noise fades away.

One thing to not this happened on 4 other friends Dreadnought V2’s so it’s not just an issue with mine.

My experience has been sub par to say the least for myself.

Mine just started doing this too. Probably only 20 hours of use since June as I've been on coil mostly. I can hear and feel the knock cycling the bike when stationary or coasting slowly but not on the trail. Going to swing by the shop where I bought it tomorrow and get a warranty claim going I guess. Mo' fancy mo' problems?

Oh and threw my Ohlins coil back on today to make sure the sound wasn't linkage related and it's beautifully silent... apart from the pleasant sound of swooshing oil.

 

[EthanRevGrips]

Mine just started doing this too. Probably only 20 hours of use since June as I've been on coil mostly. I can hear and feel the knock cycling the bike when stationary or coasting slowly but not on the trail. Going to swing by the shop where I bought it tomorrow and get a warranty claim going I guess. Mo' fancy mo' problems?

Oh and threw my Ohlins coil back on today to make sure the sound wasn't linkage related and it's beautifully silent... apart from the pleasant sound of swooshing oil.

What bike is it on? I’m trying to figure out why it does it on some bikes and not others.

 

[WasatchEnduro]

Ripmo v2s

 

[130300]

R refers to the rebound tune. The higher the number the faster the rebound. So R55 is alot faster than R25 I’d recommend going for a faster rebound tune if you’re running anything under about 215psi. The C refers to the compression tune the higher the number the stiffer/heavier the compression tune. So C34 is going to be stiffer than C30. I don’t this one is a little harder to decide but if you’re on one end of the compression either fully open or fully closed choose accordingly.

The third number to take into consideration is the X either X2 or X4 refers to the threshold/climb switch. The higher the number the more the switch will do when closed.

For example on my Dreadnought V2 I’m running a R85C26X4 with 2 clicks of rebound -1 HSC -1 LSC with 170psi. I found that in alot of cases the X4 is almost too stiff for anything but a road climb.

thank you very much. I am 90kg. Now i am going with a super deluxe ultimate coil L tuned with linear rebound and with 2 clicks of rebound and 1 click compression. HBO is -1. It is nice for me. But canyon doesn t give warranty with coil on spectral ON.
Which vivid air tuning do you suggest to buy? R55 C30? Or R25 C34?

 

[EthanRevGrips]

Ripmo v2s

Interesting, do you mind sending me a video of it?

 

[EthanRevGrips]

thank you very much. I am 90kg. Now i am going with a super deluxe ultimate coil L tuned with linear rebound and with 2 clicks of rebound and 1 click compression. HBO is -1. It is nice for me. But canyon doesn t give warranty with coil on spectral ON.
Which vivid air tuning do you suggest to buy? R55 C30? Or R25 C34?

I’d recommend going with the R55C30 since you are quite open on compression and rebound. In terms of X2 I’d stick with the X2 it’s plenty stiff enough.

 

[xxslaterxx]

Correct, R55 is linear and R85 digressive.
It is a little weird that for B1 coil ("my23") and Vivid there are only one linear rebound tune listed in the piston tuning guide

What does it do or doesn't do to make it feel not as good?
What kind of change in behaviour are you looking for?
Which comperession and rebound tune does the super deluxe air have?

Been some time - sorry for not responding but now i have the VVID re-shimed by a buddy to C26 R85. The Air shock has a Linear Light rebound tune and LC Compression tune. Now with the R85 tune in place the coil shock seems to rebound really slower when pushing down (350lbs Spring). I did not have a chance to ride the bike yet with the tuned shock.

Why the change? The air shock felt like it could handle repetitive bumps way better (eg. braking bumps in a berm or high speed chatter for example) and have more pop. When setting rebound to fast enough to feel good in this situations on the Coil shock it was a bit too fast for my liking when hitting jumps. I just put the freshly tuned VIVID Coil on the bike and no chance to ride it - however it feels really slow even set to the fastest setting when pushing by hand. Therefore even more curious how it will feel when actually riding. For instance here is a Video to see how "fast" the fastest setting is. Will post after first rides again...

 

[ThrillswithPhil]

Hi
I am planning to get a Vivid coil for my Deviate Claymore.
Recommend tune by Deviate is R55 C34 (at least what I heard).
The aftermarket tune I can get is the R55 C30. As I am only 165/170lbs and currently run the Superdeluxe Coil Ultimate '23 with LNL tune (Linear Rebound is identical to R55, Low Compression should bei C37 according to sram) I think I might get away with the lighter Compression damping. Currently I am running -1 (from middle) in HSC with the Low Compression tune on the Sdlx coil 23 with a 400lbs spring.
But I am not sure how much difference I get between C37, C34 and C30. Does anyone know if the middle Position of C37 is idetical to the closed Position of C34 and the middle position of C34 is identical to the closed position of C30?
An is there any negative impact in running a closed HSC on new RockShox dampers? In terms of shims preload? So bigger shims (stronger tune) with less preload should be better?
Thank you!

 

[T3mppu]

Been some time - sorry for not responding but now i have the VVID re-shimed by a buddy to C26 R85. The Air shock has a Linear Light rebound tune and LC Compression tune. Now with the R85 tune in place the coil shock seems to rebound really slower when pushing down (350lbs Spring). I did not have a chance to ride the bike yet with the tuned shock.

Why the change? The air shock felt like it could handle repetitive bumps way better (eg. braking bumps in a berm or high speed chatter for example) and have more pop. When setting rebound to fast enough to feel good in this situations on the Coil shock it was a bit too fast for my liking when hitting jumps. I just put the freshly tuned VIVID Coil on the bike and no chance to ride it - however it feels really slow even set to the fastest setting when pushing by hand. Therefore even more curious how it will feel when actually riding. For instance here is a Video to see how "fast" the fastest setting is. Will post after first rides again...

So the airshox was super deluxe air?
And you got the Vivid working elsewhere than jumps?

If so, your issue could also be on the compression side:
Jumps usually have quite big compression and a too soft rear (lack of support) will compress the rear, loading the spring that then has to be controlled via rebound.
This can create vague and somewhat unpredicted behaviour on the jump.
I think that the usual idea to slow down rebound when jumping on bikepark, mostly comes from this.

As an example, I had been testing Float X with lighter compression tune (CL, LMB2, RM), it was lacking a litte support, made it up in very good rolling on slower roots and rocks.
Then I was a few weeks ago riding abroad and there were bigger jumps. I was not happy how the shock handled those compressions rising up to the jumps, leading to a little vague feeling on the lips.
Switched back my custom tuned Spr Dlx Air (H comp, LNM rebound, custom basevalve) and immediately got back the confidence on the jumps.


If you changed also rebound check to R85, then you switched to a preloaded check, that will preload the LsR too.
That probably explains the effect on video, as other check tunes are not preloaded.

Was the vivid too supportive or hard? Or why did you switch to lower compression tune too? (C35 -> C26)
Did you switch to a heavier spring too?



So here some thoughts, let us know how the test riding went.

 

[T3mppu]

...
The aftermarket tune I can get is the R55 C30. As I am only 165/170lbs and currently run the Superdeluxe Coil Ultimate '23 with LNL tune (Linear Rebound is identical to R55, Low Compression should bei C37 according to sram) I think I might get away with the lighter Compression damping. Currently I am running -1 (from middle) in HSC with the Low Compression tune on the Sdlx coil 23 with a 400lbs spring.
But I am not sure how much difference I get between C37, C34 and C30. Does anyone know if the middle Position of C37 is idetical to the closed Position of C34 and the middle position of C34 is identical to the closed position of C30?
An is there any negative impact in running a closed HSC on new RockShox dampers? In terms of shims preload? So bigger shims (stronger tune) with less preload should be better?
...

The HsC adjuster in My23+ shocks is just a screw that limits the channel size (oil flow) to basevalve. (damping piston between the shock body and piggyback)
So it does not affect shimms in anyway, but is more of an orifice damper, restricting high speed oil flow.
Orifice damping is usually exponential after certain treshold, but by simulation and some riding, the Rockshox rear shock HsC adjuster is quite useable, but not that big in range.

Basetunes on the midvalve (the shimm stacks in the piston tuning guide, located in the damper shaft inside the main body,) usually affect the whole range of damping, thus adding to LsC and HsC and everything in between. (excluding non linear x-over or two-stage and preloaded stacks as those are not in rockshox shimm maps and can have a bigger effect on one range)

The LsC in those shocks is similar adjuster, but it controls the low speed bypass on basevalve and the basevalve is preloaded.
So cranking in the LsC in a sense, brings preload effects.


You will probably be fine with the C30 (if those numbers are anyway "linear").
Then consider if you have enough support and bottom out resistance, play with the adjusters and see if you get enough damping.
If LsC adjuster makes it harsh when getting support, then upping the basetune would be my recommendation.

 

[xxslaterxx]

So the airshox was super deluxe air?
And you got the Vivid working elsewhere than jumps?

If so, your issue could also be on the compression side:
Jumps usually have quite big compression and a too soft rear (lack of support) will compress the rear, loading the spring that then has to be controlled via rebound.
This can create vague and somewhat unpredicted behaviour on the jump.
I think that the usual idea to slow down rebound when jumping on bikepark, mostly comes from this.

As an example, I had been testing Float X with lighter compression tune (CL, LMB2, RM), it was lacking a litte support, made it up in very good rolling on slower roots and rocks.
Then I was a few weeks ago riding abroad and there were bigger jumps. I was not happy how the shock handled those compressions rising up to the jumps, leading to a little vague feeling on the lips.
Switched back my custom tuned Spr Dlx Air (H comp, LNM rebound, custom basevalve) and immediately got back the confidence on the jumps.


If you changed also rebound check to R85, then you switched to a preloaded check, that will preload the LsR too.
That probably explains the effect on video, as other check tunes are not preloaded.
View attachment 2114397


Was the vivid too supportive or hard? Or why did you switch to lower compression tune too? (C35 -> C26)
Did you switch to a heavier spring too?



So here some thoughts, let us know how the test riding went.

Hey thanks for the insights. Yep I was running a Super Deluxe Air and yes - we switched the Rebound Check tune to R85 in order to align with the actual Rebound tune. Compression was just changed since I wanted to feel how the recommended tune from Forbidden "feels". So for my understanding the Check tune does control the end-stroke when the shock is near it`s full extension?

My problem with the R55 was that when I did setup the rebound to feel good and recover quick in chunky stuff, I felt the getting bucked when jumping off bigger lips (eg. when your front left the jump, you push the rear still but you also get a little kick). Not unridable and probably related to bad technique but I had to slow down the Rebound on the R55 to something when it started to feel a bit too slow recovering when hitting chunky terrain.

The R85 tune feels VERY different . I switched to a 400lbs Spring after a ride from the 350lbs and I am now also running only around 26/27% Sag. The High Speed rebound seems to be really fast now (settled in 3 klicks from fully open setting) and it is recovering really fast in bumpy terrain when the shock is deeper in it`s stroke. The return seems fast but still way more controlled - eg. I do feel way less that I am being "shoot up" from the bike when flat-landing compared to the R55 tune and pushing off a lip now feels way more controlled as well.

Again this was the first time playing around with shock-tunes but it really makes a huge difference in how the bike handles. For reference - not a very scientific comparsion. All based on the feeling. I did never ride the R55 tune with the stronger (400lbs) spring.

So obviously I like to ride with a bit less Sag than I used to (and what is recommended) and to me I can only feel the differences when actually riding and bracketing - not in the parking lot or garage . What now? Maybe back to the air shock and pump a few more PSI to see if this SAG is the actual difference in feeling



BR,
Alex

 

[ThrillswithPhil]

The HsC adjuster in My23+ shocks is just a screw that limits the channel size (oil flow) to basevalve. (damping piston between the shock body and piggyback)
So it does not affect shimms in anyway, but is more of an orifice damper, restricting high speed oil flow.
Orifice damping is usually exponential after certain treshold, but by simulation and some riding, the Rockshox rear shock HsC adjuster is quite useable, but not that big in range.

Basetunes on the midvalve (the shimm stacks in the piston tuning guide, located in the damper shaft inside the main body,) usually affect the whole range of damping, thus adding to LsC and HsC and everything in between. (excluding non linear x-over or two-stage and preloaded stacks as those are not in rockshox shimm maps and can have a bigger effect on one range)

The LsC in those shocks is similar adjuster, but it controls the low speed bypass on basevalve and the basevalve is preloaded.
So cranking in the LsC in a sense, brings preload effects.


You will probably be fine with the C30 (if those numbers are anyway "linear").
Then consider if you have enough support and bottom out resistance, play with the adjusters and see if you get enough damping.
If LsC adjuster makes it harsh when getting support, then upping the basetune would be my recommendation.

Thank you very much for your reply! Really appreciate it!

 

[T3mppu]

Hey thanks for the insights. Yep I was running a Super Deluxe Air and yes - we switched the Rebound Check tune to R85 in order to align with the actual Rebound tune. Compression was just changed since I wanted to feel how the recommended tune from Forbidden "feels". So for my understanding the Check tune does control the end-stroke when the shock is near it`s full extension?

My problem with the R55 was that when I did setup the rebound to feel good and recover quick in chunky stuff, I felt the getting bucked when jumping off bigger lips (eg. when your front left the jump, you push the rear still but you also get a little kick). Not unridable and probably related to bad technique but I had to slow down the Rebound on the R55 to something when it started to feel a bit too slow recovering when hitting chunky terrain.

The R85 tune feels VERY different . I switched to a 400lbs Spring after a ride from the 350lbs and I am now also running only around 26/27% Sag. The High Speed rebound seems to be really fast now (settled in 3 klicks from fully open setting) and it is recovering really fast in bumpy terrain when the shock is deeper in it`s stroke. The return seems fast but still way more controlled - eg. I do feel way less that I am being "shoot up" from the bike when flat-landing compared to the R55 tune and pushing off a lip now feels way more controlled as well.

Again this was the first time playing around with shock-tunes but it really makes a huge difference in how the bike handles. For reference - not a very scientific comparsion. All based on the feeling. I did never ride the R55 tune with the stronger (400lbs) spring.

So obviously I like to ride with a bit less Sag than I used to (and what is recommended) and to me I can only feel the differences when actually riding and bracketing - not in the parking lot or garage . What now? Maybe back to the air shock and pump a few more PSI to see if this SAG is the actual difference in feeling



BR,
Alex

That is correct, the check tune (or check valve) is a oneway valve, that has another function to prevent oil flow in compression event to go through LsR channel. (LsR adjuster position does not have an effect on Compression damping, like in many forks it does)
And as it is inline with LsR --> affects slow rebound events

I have no data yet to compare how the rebound tunes cross in actula values, but the R85 is preloaded --> bigger effect on lower speeds, then tapers down on higher speed events.
Here is an example from pinkbike describing the types of damping curves. (don't mind the units)
So after crossing the linear curve, digressive hass less damping.

This usually means that the digressive rebound is "slow" to respond (low speed return, like in your video), but then on deep hits gets quite fast and even lead to losing control.
BUT the characteristics of a shock is always a sum of spring, compression and rebound damping plus the linkage it is in. (that's one reason for manufacturers having several available tunes)


Now this gets interesting, as your description sounds more like how a linear rebound usually changes the characteristics. (fast but controlled)
It could also be that the R85 is so much higher damping overall, that the crossover with R55 is far or not happening.
Will need to dig into the shimmstacks in more detail once I got time..
And check if I can find linkage curves for dreadnought v1 to explore this further. (that was your bike, right?)


All in all, the most important is that it now fits you and supports your riding style.
Does "slowness" of topout in your video appear to have any efect while riding? (it can also be the reason for almost open LsR)

26-27% does not yet sound very firm sag on non-DH bike, what does forbidden recommend?
I also recommend to keep testing things, that way we can improve or at least understand more!
(I for one am interested in learning what makes the R85 like this in your bike or if Vivid has something that I have missed, for example with the touchdown damper )

 

[TylerVernon]

regressive. digressive makes no sense.

 

[xxslaterxx]

What a awesome discussion @T3mppu - I am now really feeling nerdy and did learn a lot 🤓🤣. The bike is a Dreadnought V1 Medium setup as Mullet. The recommended SAG by Forbidden ist 35(!!!)%. However I looked a bit more on bike-checks and I recognized that for example Alex Storr (Forbidden Enduro Team) has around 10kg less than me with 73kg but did also run a 400lbs Spring on his V1 which should result in even LESS Sag than what I seem to prefer. While riding the slow topout which you see during the Video is not noticeable at all....

Next week somebody will borrow me his TTX Air2 (mtbm 1969) for testing (again) which has a linear tune again which should suit the bike as well - curious in how it will compare (will stick to ride the same local trails and switch the shock back2back on the trailhead).

As said I am not a professional rider and this is all based on feeling but seriously - I would not have imagined how a shock (or tune) is transforming/shaping the whole ride characteristics.

I attached the leverage curve for the bike below:

Cheers,
Alex

 

[MortenBarth]

That is correct, the check tune (or check valve) is a oneway valve, that has another function to prevent oil flow in compression event to go through LsR channel. (LsR adjuster position does not have an effect on Compression damping, like in many forks it does)
And as it is inline with LsR --> affects slow rebound events

I have no data yet to compare how the rebound tunes cross in actula values, but the R85 is preloaded --> bigger effect on lower speeds, then tapers down on higher speed events.
Here is an example from pinkbike describing the types of damping curves. (don't mind the units)
So after crossing the linear curve, digressive hass less damping.
View attachment 2114569

This usually means that the digressive rebound is "slow" to respond (low speed return, like in your video), but then on deep hits gets quite fast and even lead to losing control.
BUT the characteristics of a shock is always a sum of spring, compression and rebound damping plus the linkage it is in. (that's one reason for manufacturers having several available tunes)


Now this gets interesting, as your description sounds more like how a linear rebound usually changes the characteristics. (fast but controlled)
It could also be that the R85 is so much higher damping overall, that the crossover with R55 is far or not happening.
Will need to dig into the shimmstacks in more detail once I got time..
And check if I can find linkage curves for dreadnought v1 to explore this further. (that was your bike, right?)


All in all, the most important is that it now fits you and supports your riding style.
Does "slowness" of topout in your video appear to have any efect while riding? (it can also be the reason for almost open LsR)

26-27% does not yet sound very firm sag on non-DH bike, what does forbidden recommend?
I also recommend to keep testing things, that way we can improve or at least understand more!
(I for one am interested in learning what makes the R85 like this in your bike or if Vivid has something that I have missed, for example with the touchdown damper )

so this is going to be a big one
I have a vivid coil and the tunes are the same as with the vivid air
My question lies in the rebound shims
I have a r25 tune with the lsr adjuster quite open as i want a faster lsr
And i want a slower hsr
What rebound tune should i run to get more hsr damping
Rebound
R23=pro-
R25=pro
R53=linear-
R54=pro+
R55=linear
R85=pro++

My thought is that the digressive tunes aren’t actually digressive or well they dont reach the point where the damping force drops of.
As the oil firstly flows thru the low speed circuit so the lsr adjuster hole and check tune.
and only after that it flows thru the piston and the renound tune.
i would add a sheet that i got from rockshox were the r25 was named pro and the r55 was named linear
But i dont know how to add photos

 

[MortenBarth]

so this is going to be a big one
I have a vivid coil and the tunes are the same as with the vivid air
My question lies in the rebound shims
I have a r25 tune with the lsr adjuster quite open as i want a faster lsr
And i want a slower hsr
What rebound tune should i run to get more hsr damping
Rebound
R23=pro-
R25=pro
R53=linear-
R54=pro+
R55=linear
R85=pro++

My thought is that the digressive tunes aren’t actually digressive or well they dont reach the point where the damping force drops of.
As the oil firstly flows thru the low speed circuit so the lsr adjuster hole and check tune.
and only after that it flows thru the piston and the renound tune.
i would add a sheet that i got from rockshox were the r25 was named pro and the r55 was named linear

so this is the sheet
There is also a dg which could stand for digressive
Which could mean that the pro tune is progressive which would intern confirm my thought.
Another point supporting this these is that the vivid coil ships with the r55 tune because of the linear spring curve.
and the vivid air ships with the r25 from factory which could be because of the slightly progressive spring curve

 

[MortenBarth]

So i just saw that for the super deluxe coil that the r55 is linear and the r25 is progressive

so i now know that it is infact true what i was theorizing.
but still if anybody would like to add something please feel free

 

[SagebrushTruckee]

+1 here for vivid clicking when it passes 40% travel (dreadnought v2). Shock feels fine, guessing it’s grease in the pos/neg dimple?

Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1xQbUZKtQxyNoFH58

My Druid with vivid makes a clicking noise and I sorted that it’s the derailleur clutch