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Suspension HELP ! Horrible shop experience :-(

7.7K views 132 replies 35 participants last post by  Jayem  
#1 ·
Hi guys, first of all I’m noob as I can be. 4 weeks in and already overwhelmed and burned multiple times. I was wondering if you can help me with my bicycle suspension questions.

So first let me give you quick rundown.


Bought a bike 2012 Santa Cruz LT2 from a friend of mine for a bargain price ($150) that was sitting for a very long time in his garage. I didn’t know what I was getting I just wanted cheap bike so I can give my old hardtail to my son (9) who just got tall enough to ride my old so his small went to my other son (5)

The issue I had when I clean the bike was with the front fork that sag
all the way down under my weight. Since I was new to these more advanced bikes and due to my busy work schedule I decided to take the bike to a local bike shop. A big mistake :-( they told me that they can service the fork and BTW my rear suspension is leaking oil which I didn't know as it was firm and still holding the air they quoted me >$200 for the service after 3 weeks they said that my rear shock is still leaking and that its discontinued model and they need to order some other parts. At that point I was already at $260 for the rear not even fixed and $125 for front,

I pulled the plug as I didn't agree on any of that extra work and I pick up the bike and find out that my rear shock was in even worse condition than before completely collapsed and I was not able to even ride the bike as it was too low to the ground. They claimed it was due to that missing part and oil going from one chamber to another bla bla bla they also said that they having another parts on order but they try to quote me additional $180 + to continue the service. I hassle the price down to $300 just to get my bike back.

I started doing some research on my own and took the rear shock apart just to look around. As a former engine builder I still do have all my tools so it was not that hard for me to open the body and look inside, however what I found out inside was horrid. The shaft gauged on several spots and the worst part was when I took the top part out for the oil chamber and find out that all the shims are just piled up inside not even screwed together (see the pictures) As you can see this turned into a nightmare and the sweat deal I got on the bike which was ($150) is not so sweet anymore.

At that point I already know that this shock was beyond repair and now I’m looking to buy another RP23 I found one that is brand new for about $190 its listed as

Fox Float RP23 8,5x2,125" Specialized Enduro 2010-2012 26er

My old shock that was on the bike based on the serial is:

2010 FLOAT RP23 BV XV, [ 8.50, 2.50 2.9 Cr, VTM, RTM, BV175, S16 AM ]

Will the other one work on my bike? The length seems to be the same but looks like different stroke?

The second question is about my Front Fork

The bike I got is as far as I can tell from my research equipped with:

FOX TALAS 32 RLC 140-110 mm Front Fork

The issue I had with the front was a sagging under my weight which could been due to low pressure. The shop that butchered my bike claimed that they fix the issue by adding oil they didn't as far as I know, replace any seals, but when I got the bike back I noticed several things wrong.

- The compression adjustment dial was assembled incorrectly where they did not attach the dial into the groove with the 3x ball bearing. I ran into the same issue when I cleaned the bike prior to taking to the shop and figured it out on my own so I fix that since I already know how to. However, when I was putting the dial back together I noticed that at least in one area that I remember there was a missing detent spring and ball. However, I can't find any complete parts diagrams for that fork to determine what else is missing and mainly what to order. If some one have picture of that 3 part adjustment dial on right side that will be awesome so I can look what’s missing

- The other issue I noticed is if I adjust the pressure to what is recommended based on the model and my weight which should be around 90psi it sags I had to pump up to 150psi. I weigh about 179lb

- Also the top lockout force dial is a bit harder to turn now from what I remember. Its not smooth.

- And yesterday I noticed that adjusting the ride height is not working at all as well and it's stuck on full extension.


I spent probably a week on researching so now I definitely know more than a week ago and knowing all this I would done things differently. If the shop will not give me my money back after I send them the list what was wrong I will be already in $300 deep hole + $145 for that used RP23 that I bought.
I approached FOX but they said that my suspension is old and they no longer support the product. However they were nice enough to share a link to this website and very likely I will be sending my front for to them for rebuilt

Fox TALAS fork rebuild service | Risse Racing Online Store

Also this is the exact model of my fork.

2007 32 TALAS

Serial number: 127890-0144
Part number: 910-00-164
Description: 2007 TALAS 140RLC, Fox Blue, Disc, OE


Apology for this long post but this experience so far is very unpleasant and trying to not dislike this bike, the only thing I regret is that I didn’t do my homework and trusted someone

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#2 ·
I wouldn't put more money into that bike.

if you are a size large, think about getting this bike instead of faffing with outdated components and sinking more money into those suspension parts. you'll probably spend 400 more dollars on labor services to fix what the shop messed up.

 
#3 ·
to start off, the shop most likely did not do anything wrong or shady.

As a raw beginner, you may not be aware, but with used bikes, you NEED TO ASSUME YOU WILL NEED TO DO SUSPENSION SERVICE UNLESS PROVEN OTHERWISE. An external visual check of suspension is not enough. Squishing the suspension is not enough. Rubber seals dry out over time. As what essentially amounts to a garage find of a bike, it's been sitting and drying out for a LONG TIME. It's pretty much guaranteed that it will need suspension work. especially since there's a really good chance that it has never been serviced anyway.

Suspension work is almost entirely labor. Seals, o-rings, and fluids are cheap. But it takes time and care to do the job right without contaminating your stuff with dirt. Hence the cost. And yeah, old parts start to lose mfr support and service parts can be difficult to find (at best).

and tbh, you should also assume that ANY contact point and soft wear part will need to be replaced. I see dry rot cracks on the saddle already. Start sitting on it and riding it, and it's going to fall apart. this should include cables and housings, tires, and grips. hydraulic brakes should be bled.

ANYTHING with grease should be disassembled, cleaned, and fresh grease installed.

if you install a shock on that bike with less than the OEM amount of stroke, you will have less suspension travel. that bike already doesn't have much, so I would strongly recommend against it. plus, it's a good idea to get a shock that's tuned to work on a bike with the same sort of suspension you have on yours. otherwise, the damping is likely to be all wrong for your bike. you can talk to one of the suspension manufacturers or even some suspension focused shops to talk about what would work well on your bike.
 
#4 ·
the used shock you bought has a shorter stroke so you wont get all the travel, but it will bolt up since it's the same length. it will be rideable but not ideal.

but since it's for a different bike, the damping range may be not match what your frame needs.
 
#6 ·
I don't trust most shops to work on suspension. They just don't have the time, patience or tools for the rapidly changing stuff that the manufacturers are pushing. This means you should use specialized suspension shops that have a decent reputation.
 
#9 · (Edited)
The idea of taking such an old technical device to a shop to make it work again :lol: ... don't ever try this with a car or an airplane if you don't have LOTS of money.


If the bike is otherwise still working fine, then keep the (wrong) shock as it is, get another fork that is working (for cheap) and ride it.
It is a very outdated bike, but ok.

TALAS forks I guess are quite complicated. I would look for a simpler RS Reba/Revelation etc. 1 1/8 straight steerer.

Fox forks that old have a problem with the damping bladder degrading, which is not available any more as a replacement part. So RS Revelation with the simpler Motion Control and with no travel adjust might be the best option.
If you don't find a fork for about 100$, I would disassemble the bike and sell the parts as vintage.

Since about 2018 most bikes are much much better when ridden on trails. And parts for 5 year old bikes are much easier to replace.
 
#10 ·
I doubt that is a 2012 MY. The head tube looks like its 1 1/8". Buy a shock pump and add air to the fork. Shock is common used - Ebay or Pink bike but used means may need service. $150 & probably a mid 2000's bike means $$.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I doubt that is a 2012 MY. The head tube looks like its 1 1/8".
That is indeed a Blur LT2, which was built for 6 years between 2008-2013. The FC-M760 crankset, FD-M760 front derailleur, and SL-M760 shifters, however, were MY2003-2006 (but were effectively 2004-2007 for overseas). Together with the 2007 32 TALAS, I’d wager that this Blur LT2 is the first year production (i.e. MY2008, available mid-year 2007). The RD-M770 (produced 2007-2011, 2008-2012 overseas) might be the seed for the misunderstanding (or lie) that this is a circa-2012 bike.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Thanks guys for the comments, I will keep searching for the right shock, I just really want to just ride along with my son nothing crazy parting out is not a option I have absolutely no idea what each parts worth it and 0 time doing all that hassle with shipping and complaints that its not what is should. Been there and done that with 2 of my personal modded cars when they got crushed by idiots not paying attention.

... but as far for the shop kind of surprised that many of you think they didn't do anything wrong. Maybe I was not clear enough in my previous post so what exactly they did for $300 ????

I brought the bike with Front Fork question. They said that its seems to be fine might need very light refreshment they also said that there is slight oil residue on the rear tube and that the rear might leaking. Quoted me >$200


Then 3 weeks later it was $260 for the rear not even fixed they wanted additional $180, and $125 for the front. I never agreed on any of that I was OK with $200 or if I consider 10-15% margin of error on quoted price that will put me at $230 not $385.

When I said no and try to pickup my bike this is what I got:

Rear Shock completely collapsed they blamed it on missing part that was on order and then show me tiny o-ring .... so a o-ring for $180??? and because of that oil entering air chamber and thats why is collapsed. As a former mechanic and performance engine builder I have the knowledge and garage just not the time with my new job and thats why I took it to the "socialists" , anyway I took the rear apart just to see whats inside and only what I found was disaster. Gauged shaft what seems to be from the tools and when I open the oil chamber all the shims on a pile not even attached to the shaft. (see the pictures)

Now for comparison this shop was recommended by FOX after I start doing my research and they quote Full rebuilt $175



Front shock I paid $125 and they said that it only need it oil, based on what I read it's never about just the oil when you open it, it will be like me to replace pistons on the engine and use old piston ring and besides they know the bike sat for a long time. Anyway when I brought the bike back compression adjustment was not put together correctly and flapping as they didn't use correctly the 3x ball bearing that supposed to be riding in the top grove locking the dial in the position and my ride adjustment that worked before is now not working and fully extended.

When I brought the bike back and test it the fork sag right away so I turn around I had to bring the bike back and they were like oops forgot to put air. Based on documentation the fork calls for about 90-95psi for my weight and I have to put 150 at least so its not sagging under my weight just riding along. They said it normal and shocks can take up to 300psi .. well not this one

Again full service at risse racing is $200 with everything replaced


So no I dont think they know what they were doing , I'm not buying that. I worked on performance cars, custom modification and engine built so I know how it goes and I would never start something that was beyond my capability and I never in my life returned a car back to the customer in worst condition and ask him to pay me for my screw up. I was fine paying for rebuilt but when I get my stuff I expecting not to be in worst condition then when I brought it in.


 
#18 ·
risse racing is very slow. find a better local bike shop that are upfront with their capabilities. not many parts for these old forks and shocks except o rings. no one really works on talas air springs anymore. very little service data on talas and even fewer that know how it works.
 
#23 ·
what are you talking about ignorance , denial? Did you ever work in any type of customer delivery or service? Probably not, otherwise you would never say nonsense like that. They didn't have to take that job but they did and I trusted them. They could easily say no its old or no we can't do it not charge me money and return my stuff in even worst condition then it was.
 
#17 ·
I second the get a $800 hardtail. But if you don't want to go that route Amazon and Ebay has off brand 1 1/8 straight steerer air forks in 100, 120 and 140mm. they are less than $200 reviews are mixed but seem to point to they are ok for the price. For example below (I have never used this fork or this brand so there is some buyer beware).

KZEE 140mm MTB Suspension Fork 26/27.5 inch, Aluminum Alloy 1-1/8" Straight Tube Bicycle Downhill Steerer Forks Fork https://a.co/d/8HZRZlj
 
#19 ·
Like they said above…most of the cost for service like this is the labor. When I get my FS bike serviced, I fully expect the parts costs to be minimal, but the labor cost to be $XXX.

If you haven’t wrapped your head around that, it would be a good idea to view this project as a sunk cost and move on to something else. I.e. A new inexpensive hardtail.
 
#24 ·
what are you talking about ignorance , denial? Did you ever work in any type of customer delivery or service? Probably not, otherwise you would never say nonsense like that. They didn't have to take that job but they did and I trusted them. They could easily say no its old or no we can't do it not charge me money and return my stuff in even worst condition then it was.
Even if that shop did screw up, the above applies.
I'm a liar and a lunatic. And you don't answer to me.
 
#25 ·
Yeah, that bike was made right before a revolution in mountain bikes - huge changes in geometry, suspension tech, and an overall beefing up of components. It's been all but obsoleted, which cannot be said for almost any other genre of bikes in the same time period.

What you have is the automotive version of an 80's or 90's muscle car - too old to 'just work', too expensive to maintain, and not old enough to have any massive cachet/cool factor from owning it. Might as well name it 'Sunk Cost Fallacy' if you're gonna keep it.

I just really want to just ride along with my son
The rest of chat has the right idea, get a dirt-cheap 29er hardtail.
 
#26 ·
Dude, if they were socialists, they would have taken care of you without charging or at least charging a lot. Since they charged and they charged a lot, they are capitalists. It's the nature of the system- make people pay more money than a thing or service is worth in order to turn a profit.

Anyway, I had that bike BITD and it was a blast for its time. I'm sure the shop just slapped the shock together to get you out of the shop. And, a fork is SUPPOSED to sag under rider weight. IIRC, I liked that fork at 28% sag.

Take a couple deep breaths and send the shock out to an expert. Get it back and go ride.
 
#29 ·
What if you were outsourcing the sus rebuilds?

Sounds like the fork is fine. If the shock truly is toast I'd probably search for a used one.


Yeah, that bike was made right before a revolution in mountain bikes - huge changes in geometry, suspension tech, and an overall beefing up of components. It's been all but obsoleted, which cannot be said for almost any other genre of bikes in the same time period.

Overall beefing up of components? Which ones? Thru axles and fatter fork stanchions are about all I can think of
 
#38 ·
Overall beefing up of components? Which ones? Thru axles and fatter fork stanchions are about all I can think of
Those two, plus heavier/stronger frames in general, 29ers = longer levers so have to be stronger, 35mm stems, wider handlebars... lots of little things that add up over time.
 
#30 ·
I had that bike, many years ago. It was a beauty and worth 4k plus back in the days.

If I was in your shoes I did be disappointed as well. The shop quoted you on best case scenario fix, so the upfront cost is not outrageous. But as you know in life, best case scenario is usually never the case.

Suspensions on mtb are very complicated. So, you have mechanical experiences. We read you loud and clear on the first message what took place with the shop. We have all been there at some point, hence we fix our bikes ourselves. To be fair, the shop is charging you for parts, not expensive in any regard. But at the rate for the shop top mechanic, multiple that by how long it takes to complete the job, thats the price they gave you. While it doesn’t make sense for the consumer, but you don’t expect the mechanic to go home and feed his family with canned food right? Fair is fair in the labor world. You can’t apply your understanding in cars on to mountain bicycles. You can get an oil change for $29.99 bucks special. Same $29.99 gets you no where at a bike shop. This mtb sport is a high price hobby that doesn’t really justify the cost, but as a hobby, many are willing to pay to play.

I think what should have taken place with your mechanical experience is this, you come here and ask us what parts you need, watch you tube video and fix it yourself. This cut the professional labor out. from what I have been told, parts are cheap, if you can find it for old components like yours. Then we, the internet people, would have told you to ebay or aliexpress something instead based on the value of your older machine, and you walk away with about a few hundred bucks of upgrades and a ridable bike.
 
#34 ·
I'd be here all day if I were to list every time a shop kinda screwed me over. I get it, its not like 30 yrs ago, with the components we have today. But why couldnt that shop have called when the fork and shock were apart and explain the situation? And at that point they could have sold you a Manitou Markhor and/or X-fusion shock for about the same as the repair.
Also, I get that a shop has to charge high hourly repair rates for suspension service, but how do we know the repair guy is competent? Is it some high school kid? I've had some repairs done over the years that made me think that-lol.
Its why I do all my own maintenance. None of it is that hard with a few tools and a Youtube video. And you know it was done right.

Short rant about many shops, unless you are looking at one of their high end bikes, they seem to ignore you and/or talk down to you. And yet, more often than not when they start talking half of what they say is wrong-lol. I always research a bike before I buy, and it never fails that the shop employee knows less than I do. How about this, instead of trying to sound like you know what you are talking about and giving wrong info, maybe look something up first-lol. As a customer, I'd appreciate the honesty.
 
#36 ·
... but as far for the shop kind of surprised that many of you think they didn't do anything wrong. Maybe I was not clear enough in my previous post so what exactly they did for $300 ????
That is what suspension service costs. Look at other shop rates. It's the time spent doing the work. Just because it's a bicycle doesn't mean it costs any less than a car or a motorcycle. In fact, some aspects are more difficult/tedious because the parts are so much smaller.

Basic parts for servicing BOTH the fork and the shock likely cost no more than $50. Bicycle mechanics are professionals, but customers won't treat them as professionals and get pissy when they insist on being paid as professionals. Training comes from what you pay them, and if you won't pay them, then training is going to lag.

Frankly, OP, your expectations were unrealistic. And your outrage is due to ignorance and or denial.
Not to mention OP thinks that because he's knowledgeable in something else similar but not exactly the same that he knows better. Folks like this are kinda the worst kinds of customers. Like some human nurses who think they know better than my veterinarian wife.
 
#37 ·
Not to mention OP thinks that because he's knowledgeable in something else similar but not exactly the same that he knows better. Folks like this are kinda the worst kinds of customers. Like some human nurses who think they know better than my veterinarian wife.
I was wrong. The word "or" obviously was added in error.