Strava again pissing off thousands of users and 3rd party App makers
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Worst case I'll just use Garmin Connect to keep track of how much I've ridden.
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That's what I do. Strava is more social media in which I share my rides with those interested.
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779 Posts
I've been doing that for years
This is what i do. I continued to use the free version of Strava for a while after they went to the subscription based model. But after enough app updates they finally stripped out enough features that I decided it was no more useful to me than Garmin Connect.
One thing GC doesn't do is when you make a segment, it only matches activities from that point on.
If you want a ride from last week, or last year to be counted, you have to open that activity and specifically tell it to match new segments.
Therefore if you're moving from Strava Segments to GC Segments, you may have thousands of activities to do this on...
If you want a ride from last week, or last year to be counted, you have to open that activity and specifically tell it to match new segments.
Therefore if you're moving from Strava Segments to GC Segments, you may have thousands of activities to do this on...
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255 Posts
This may be irrelevant but I like the latest Strava update that came out a few weeks ago with regards to the mapping interface and real time data on rides. The app is expensive and it hurts to pay for each year, but I have it linked to GC for kayaking and running and iFit for a treadmill and rowing machine. It consolidates all of them in one place and I have found it to be worth the excessive cost. I begrudgingly paid my yearly fee last month but the new update made it a little easier to swallow.
One problem with the new update is, I keep seeing my previous rides where I made a left off the trail and found myself sitting at a cantina with a cold beer in my hand instead of continuing on the trail. Every time I see that red line go left off the trail, I have to mentally force myself not to follow it to frosty goodness. About once a week, I loose that battle.
One problem with the new update is, I keep seeing my previous rides where I made a left off the trail and found myself sitting at a cantina with a cold beer in my hand instead of continuing on the trail. Every time I see that red line go left off the trail, I have to mentally force myself not to follow it to frosty goodness. About once a week, I loose that battle.
Understood. That's kind of the point. IME, if you're recording your ride using a Garmin or Wahoo, Strava has stripped so much functionality/access to data out of the free version, there's really no reason to link GC or the Wahoo app to Strava anymore. Just use GC or the Wahoo app to track your data. I can the rationale for using the free version of Strava if you're recording your ride directly on your phone rather than a Garmin or Wahoo unit.
I'm not a power user, so if Strava stripped anything I'm not aware of what it was. GC uploads my rides to Strava and I occasionally peek in and give some kudos and check on my total mileage for the year and total mileage on each bike. Can't imagine paying for it.
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255 Posts
Exactly. I ran it for a while on the free version and after a couple of months decided to belly up to the bar and pay for the full version. I use it almost every day, connect all my other fitness apps to it, and track all kinds of metrics, so it is worth it and now am on my 3rd paid year.
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2,142 Posts
I would still use it for ProBikeGarage so I didn’t have to manually add ride data or write my own connection API/middlewear.
As to why I pay for software or web applications it is pretty simple. My rule of thumb is that, for the most part, free applications will degrade over time or turn you into their revenue stream via using your data. Paid applications will do the same but you usually have more control. If I don’t want to pay for an application then I don’t use it OR I just accept that the value prop still exists with the rampant use of my data. 95%+ of the time that means I won’t use it. Good software and applications actually cost money to develop and if I like something then I want to support that. Strava has the potential to keep me from using it if they make the wrong moves but I’ll either pay and support it or not use it at all.
Free software almost universally sucks and it is never really free. There are plenty of cases where the paid version is no better however or not useful to most so I begrudgingly get why some people think it is the way to go. However, let me be very clear, there are very few exceptions to the the basic rule of nothing is actually free and when think something is you are likely paying far more than you know. Some don’t care, cool. No problem with that. Just answering why I would pay.
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Thats not universally true, I use free open source software and most of it is as good as or better then paid.
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2,142 Posts
That's why I said almost. I just spent the last hour designing a brake rotor rack in OpenSCAD for example. I could adjust my statement to exclude certain non-commercial applications but even that is not really free to everyone. People spend time developing it. That's why they often ask for donations to keep it going. I've contributed to quite a few open source projects over the years and never asked for a penny but I had the luxury of doing so because I got paid to do my real job. If developers don't make money then those open source applications won't last. Same principle applies for me though, if I don't contribute code and actually use the software or application then I donate. Kinda like trail building, if I can't help maintain trails that I ride regularly (and aren't funded by taxes) then I contribute to the trail association. I am not telling anyone to do the same, that's up to you and I have no opinion on whether you do or don't. I detest it when people tell other people how to spend their money. I only state it to clarify why I do it in hopes that people will understand that free is a myth.
The thing is apps used to be a one time charge for premium features and no ads. Now 99% of them have went to a subscription based service which I refuse to be part of, so I don't subscribe to any apps. Greed mother*****s.
Recently downloaded an app for some guitar stuff I do. I was surprised when it was a one time fee of $7 instead of subscription.
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Again, I have no problem with that perspective. Until a few years ago I would have said the same thing, charge me enough to cover it forever and let me decide. I no longer feel that way however. If you want to know why I have shifted my thoughts on this, it is fairly straightforward. An app without a subscription instead of one time costs can only exist if it charges an exorbitant amount*. If you have any success you have to setup support for users which involves cost, you have continue innovation and changing/added new features, you have to build to constant new/updated operating system changes. You have to do marketing because there are a billion apps out there. All of this involves people doing work and those people would like to make a living as well.
Note: I want to make it very clear that I have no problem with not wanting to pay any subscription to anyone. Your choice and I don't know anyone at Strava. They could be greedy and rolling in cash. Seems unlikely outside of a few key individuals where it is no different than any other company but, again, I don't know them so I could be wrong. I do have insights into several other organizations and also a few individual developers and they are definitely not rolling in cash. Some of them make a decent living, some scrape by and work like crazy hoping to have at least one app that will sustain them. Pretty normal overall.
As I prepare something I've been working on for a potential market release this has been weighing heavily on me. I've spent a lot of time working out financial models with people who have apps and understand their user base and numbers. I have a handy, dandy 14 sheet excel financial model that adjusts all of the possibilities based on assumptions. I've read study after study about the views people have on subscriptions and the best case scenario for a user base. Your reaction is both rational and common and it is clear that many applications don't make their subscriptions worthwhile. All of that is true and it is my main worry, i.e., being painted in that same light. I never want users that just forget that they are subscribed and earn revenue that way so I've been working on putting in place different models that will allow me to continue to improve my application and support it in a way that users think that it is worth paying for.
I still haven't decided if I will release my application and the associated hardware. We're in the process of building the hardware prototypes now and when I finish it, all in, I'll will have spent a very large chunk of money to see if I can make it happen. I absolutely won't release it unless I am sure and can prove it. So if that doesn't happen then that money and about 1500 hours of my time is just gone. Poof. At the same time, I am choosing to attempt this so, if it fails then it fails and I don't need or expect anyone to feel sorry for me. If I want to make that money back though you wouldn't believe the one time cost that it would end up at. Even if I skip it and just eat out of the kindness of my heart, just the support costs and my AWS bill are astronomical. Oh and I'm storing personal data (as little as possible) so insurance, compliance and everything else has to be nailed. It would cost a ton for one time license fee and I would just have to basically never give them updates or support the product. Which means not a single soul would buy it, so my only hope to make this a viable business with continued to innovation and a supported user base is a subscription. That's it. There is no other option. I'm just trying make sure that when someone does subscribe that they see clear value.
This is merely an explanation from the developer side of the aisle. I'm not trying to win hearts and minds, just stating the facts of my situation and some others. If we want to all agree to rail on the software groups that basically create casino games for kids and then get them to pester their parents to buy gems, virtual currency, etc... OK, I'm with you on that. Nearly 100% of those things are using every trick in the world to get users to spend on zero cost goods. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I did that.
Sorry to put you to sleep with this boring explanation...
*-An app where the developer doesn't care if it works 3 os releases from now or relates to a very stagnant technology can get away with this.
Lol. Stupid Strava. Garmin has deeper pockets. If they are losing revenue it's their own fault for alienating users with fees and stupid features.
www.dcrainmaker.com
Strava Just Sued Garmin: Demands Garmin Stop Selling Devices
Strava has sued Garmin, an act that I very much did not have on my bingo card for 2025. …
www.dcrainmaker.com
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1,261 Posts
All I want is a way to get my data into TrainerRoad. Can I do this without Strava? Kinda tired of their shenanigans.
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For Strava to invest alot of money and time into a lawsuit - it screams they are absolutely struggling and continue to lose subscribers.
Theres no way Strava wins this. Or Garmin just removes the features and the bleeding continues.
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