[knottshore]

I know this is something that a lot of riders have been doing for quite a while, long before XX or the current rash of double cranksets came available but it is not always as strait forward as one might think. Here are some pictures of my conversion, which is still in progress. Feel free to post your expieriences and pics as well.

I am not the strongest rider out there but have found I like riding a SS more than I thought I would- this started translating into my geared bikes and because my terrain does not require a super low granny I figured I would play with some gearing to see what works- especially before I commit to a 2X crankset.

I started out with a 22/32/44 as most of the tripple set ups out there are and while I use the granny ring I am in the 32T 99% of the time. I figured it might keep me from being lazy and clicking to find that lower gear if I took my crutch away....

I converted the rear to a 10 speed 11-36T cog, shifters, rear der, and chain (not a must but wanted the 36T) and stuck with my 9 speed front der and cranks. I removed the rings and replaced them with an XT 26T 64bcd little ring and added an LX 36T middle ring, and replaced the big ring with a bash/chainguide. The offset of the XT 26T was too close to let the chain sit properly so I added some spacers (see pics) to try to sort it out (still trying to figure this out since everything is shimano 9 speed...). I have it set up where I get 100% of the middle 36T and all but the smallest two cogs on the cassette in the 26T with no FD rub, and set the stop so that the front shifter can't push the chain too far- I will see how the 36T works but may try a 38T or 39T in the future. No trail time yet but I will give an update on how it works out...

 

[boomn]

Lookin' good knottshore. I should have my 26x36t double together by the end of the week on the new bike I'm building!

I already installed the rings I got on my LX M582 arms and found that the NOS 26t ring I picked up had not been designed for external BB's and had really long tabs inside the granny bolt holes, but I easily fixed that with a dremel. The 36t I got was a cheap steel Truvativ Trushift, and while it should last for a long time it is also quite the boat anchor. Oh well, I can excuse that for steel I'll update here if I run into any rubbing or clearance problems and what works to fix it.

I sure wish there were more options though. I really wanted to try 28x38 but I couldn't find good options. Depending on how much I like this setup and how much of the time I run this new bike with cross tires, I might ditch the whole thing and start over with a used 74/110BCD crank and 28x38 or even 30x40 rings

 

[knottshore]

Yea the ring selection is questionable for sure- I tried to stick with Shimano to avoid any additional variables, and they may not be ultra bling but they should do-

I hope you don't run into spacing issues, not a huge issue but not ideal either, I saw in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=615985

Here is a summary...

"Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ-X
You could try the TA Specialites rings 42t middle and 28t inner for under $100 for a 64/104 BCD crank. I've spoken to the Blackspire people directly and they say that the SuperPro 970 rings in 28t are spaced specifically for Shimano M970 cranks. They won't play nice with others because the spacing and offset is different on that crankset than other 64/104 cranks including all of the others in Shimano's range. Sucks, but the guy I talked to really recommended against it.

He also said that they will be making 2x9 rings later this year to match SRAMs new offerings."

"QUOTE by Fishlips"

That may explain my problem. I think my shifting/chain-suck woes are all caused by too big of a space between the chainrings.

Any good source for TA Specialties rings in the U.S.?"

This is a more specific explanation of my issue... (crosspost from another 2X9 thread)

I ran into an issue where the 26T granny ends up too close to the middle ring and will not let the chain sit on it properly- the carbon reinforcement and ramp overlapped the teeth on the smaller ring. At first I though it was because of the odd matching to the 32T middle (while I was waiting on the 36T) but it does the same thing with the 36T. I had some spacers for chainring bolts laying around and put them between the crank and ring... I just did it last night and have yet to give it a proper test but it seemed to offer a decent range up on the stand... some chain rub on the FD in the extremes.

Oddly Fishlips spacing was "too big" on the 970's VS mine was too close... at closer inspection the XT 26T ring has a slightly different offset than any of the 22T or 24T shimano 9spd rings I have... odd.

Good luck with the set-up- I took mine for a quick spin around the block and the gearing felt pretty good- I hope to try the trail this week-

 

[boomn]

Interesting. Yep, these are oddly uncharted waters. :madman:. I'm keeping my fingers cross for no problems, but steeling myself for the worst

 

[CTMTNBIKER]

Gotta love Shimano...! I'm running Truvativ 26T and 36T chainrings on a Stylo crank with no spacing/shifting issues at all.
SRAM has/will soon have 24/38T 10spd chainrings to fit onto 64/104 BCD cranks for those looking for wider range with 10speed cassette.

 

[knottshore]

Gotta love Shimano...! I'm running Truvativ 26T and 36T chainrings on a Stylo crank with no spacing/shifting issues at all.
SRAM has/will soon have 24/38T 10spd chainrings to fit onto 64/104 BCD cranks for those looking for wider range with 10speed cassette.

Not so sure it is a Shimano thing as much as me possibly choosing the wrong chainring for this application- but they do make so many different cranks/rings things can get crossed up for sure? Glad to hear your not having any issues, how are the 26T/36T rings working for you gearing wise? What bike and type of terrain are you running them on?

 

[CTMTNBIKER]

Most of the riding I do is fireroad climbs with loose, fairly rough downhills. At the moment I'm riding a Morewood Zula - supposed to be a 4" travel XC/marathon bike, but I've set mine up a bit more "playful" - 120 Reba with maxle, 70mm stem, Reverb post, etc

When riding 3x9 I was in 32t chainring 90% of the time. Most climbing was in 32/32 combo, granny only there to help out of the steep stuff/bad days, and I found I was always about halfway up the cassette when in the 44t ring.

So when I fitted 11-36 cassette I wanted the same ratio for the climbing (36/36), and the 36T chainring is enough on the dh singletrack. Still got a granny to help out. Fitted a bashring and MRP (LRP) dual ring roller to keep the chain in place and quieter when things get a bit rough. Works great!

Now I'd guess about 95% of my riding is in the 36T chainring. One day when I'm fit again I'll be very tempted to run a single ring up front.

 

[dwt]

Now I'd guess about 95% of my riding is in the 36T chainring. One day when I'm fit again I'll be very tempted to run a single ring up front.

At the beginning of the 2010 season, I had 2 bikes: 26'er rigid singlespeed, 32-17 gearing; and 26'er dual suspension 9 speed, 44/32/22 front, 11-34 cassette.

By the end of the season my quiver changed, and so did my habits. I built up a 1 x 9 hardtail with a 32T front, 11-34 rear, converted the dualie to bash-32-22, and converted the SS to 32-18.

The SS crowd will hate me, but the 1 x 9 hardtail saw more use than any of the other bikes, followed by the dualie, and last the poor old SS. The 1 x 9 with a carbon frame was only about 2 lbs heavier than the steel frame SS, even with the suspension fork, @ 23+/- lbs. That is one flickable x-c bike, not quite as simple a SS, but close.

The whole question on 1X is deciding which gear up front - obviously. 10 speed give you the option of another low on your cassette with a 36T cog.

Personally, if I ever convert the 1 x 9 to 1 x 10, I'm sticking with the 32. But it's all about your personal strength and comfort.

I recommend you give 1x a shot, whatever you decide up front.

 

[uzurpator]

I ran into an issue where the 26T granny ends up too close to the middle ring and will not let the chain sit on it properly- the carbon reinforcement and ramp overlapped the teeth on the smaller ring. At first I though it was because of the odd matching to the 32T middle (while I was waiting on the 36T) but it does the same thing with the 36T. I had some spacers for chainring bolts laying around and put them between the crank and ring... I just did it last night and have yet to give it a proper test but it seemed to offer a decent range up on the stand... some chain rub on the FD in the extremes.

XTR cranksets have the granny with an integrated spacer, which makes them easily convertible to 2x9, but also makes the XTR cranksets incompatible with all the other 64mm bcd cranksets.

Your solution is, actually, correct. If you want to add non XTR granny to XTR crank you need to add, afair 2.5mm of spacers.

 

[knottshore]

At the beginning of the 2010 season, I had 2 bikes: 26'er rigid singlespeed, 32-17 gearing; and 26'er dual suspension 9 speed, 44/32/22 front, 11-34 cassette.

By the end of the season my quiver changed, and so did my habits. I built up a 1 x 9 hardtail with a 32T front, 11-34 rear, converted the dualie to bash-32-22, and converted the SS to 32-18.

The SS crowd will hate me, but the 1 x 9 hardtail saw more use than any of the other bikes, followed by the dualie, and last the poor old SS. The 1 x 9 with a carbon frame was only about 2 lbs heavier than the steel frame SS, even with the suspension fork, @ 23+/- lbs. That is one flickable x-c bike, not quite as simple a SS, but close.

The whole question on 1X is deciding which gear up front - obviously. 10 speed give you the option of another low on your cassette with a 36T cog.

Personally, if I ever convert the 1 x 9 to 1 x 10, I'm sticking with the 32. But it's all about your personal strength and comfort.

I recommend you give 1x a shot, whatever you decide up front.

I agree a 1X10 with an 11-36T cassette would cover quite a bit - I had my current SS set up as a 1X9 as my only bike for quite a while and with an 11-34 and 32T up front and it was simple, reliable and worked in 99.9% of my riding conditions- a 1X set up really shines on a nice light hard tail or rigid for xc use.

So while I do have the option of setting up my HT either way I would like to keep the full susp. bike as my jack of all trades ride, which I sometimes take to trails that need a bit more gear- so a bit more than a 1X can offer even with the 10 speed 11-36T out back. To add to it my current full susp. frame has a direct mount FD and integrated BB so a 1X set up gets a bit more complicated in terms of a chain guide.

 

[boomn]

My only other bike is a 1x9 with a 32t x 11-34t setup and that setup gave me the confidence to know I can climb and spin decently well with a low gear that is only ~27 gear inches. My idea with my new 26/36t double is actually to keep the lowest gear at about the same difficulty or a little lower using a smaller cassette (30t max) and to extend my gear range and gear options on the top end with the 36t ring.

My cassette will likely end up being 5 or 6 speeds pieced together from other cassettes (11-13-17-23-30?, but only experimenting and testing will really tell) and friction shifted, but I don't want to weird you guys out too much

 

[knottshore]

XTR cranksets have the granny with an integrated spacer, which makes them easily convertible to 2x9, but also makes the XTR cranksets incompatible with all the other 64mm bcd cranksets.

Your solution is, actually, correct. If you want to add non XTR granny to XTR crank you need to add, afair 2.5mm of spacers.

Thanks for the input, I did a bit of searching and found some info stating that the xtr 970 granny has about ~2mm more material on the mounting side I will have to measure the spacers I used to see how thick they actually are, as I get a hint of derailleur rub when in the small ring up front and in the 2-3 smallest/outer rings out back no matter how I set the stops or tension up on it. Since I get full range on the middle ring I was not too concerned but being neurotic I was planning on trying a bit narrower spacers since those were from another project and just used in a pinch... at least I am on the right trail I guess.

I ran across this and figured I would add it for reference: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=495096

posted by RJJ on mtbr

"Middleburn have solved my problem!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I now have an answer, as I spoke to Middleburn (an excellent and very helpful UK company who make chainrings amongst other bits) and they put me straight. Thanks very much Middleburn.

1) The Shimano M970 middle ring has a 0.6mm recess on the mounting points, so effectively moving the middle chainring chain line 0.6mm towards the big ring (and away from the granny).
2) If running two rings + bash ring in place of the outer ring, it will make no difference in real terms to use a standard non recessed 36T middle ring as the granny and middle ring will have their distance apart decreased by only 0.6mm.
3) The problem will only occur if using an outer ring (3 ring set-up), as there is now a difference of 1.2mm between the gap between the granny and middle, and middle and big ring, and apparently this is enough to slightly affect shifting. "

 

[dwt]

My only other bike is a 1x9 with a 32t x 11-34t setup and that setup gave me the confidence to know I can climb and spin decently well with a low gear that is only ~27 gear inches. My idea with my new 26/36t double is actually to keep the lowest gear at about the same difficulty or a little lower using a smaller cassette (30t max) and to extend my gear range and gear options on the top end with the 36t ring.

My cassette will likely end up being 5 or 6 speeds pieced together from other cassettes (11-13-17-23-30?, but only experimenting and testing will really tell) and friction shifted, but I don't want to weird you guys out too much

My $0.02:

I mentioned above I have a hardtail 1x9, 32T x 11-34T, and a dualie triple 44-32-22T x 11-34T.

The 1x9 proved to me I didn't really "need" a 44T for my style of riding, plus it kept hitting or scraping obstacles, so I decided to convert the triple to a double. Removed the 44T and added bolt spacers, and replaced the 32T with 36t and the 22T with 24T.

BUT, I found after only 2 rides I hated the 36-24 set up. I was used to riding the 32T most of the time on the triple and all of the time on the 1x9. With a 36T, I had to shift the front der. too much. Shifting the front der. on a mtb is a PIA.

So I changed the triple to bash-32-22, and that is perfect for that bike and my fitness level. I only need to shift the front on the steepest and longest of hills. Otherwise, I'm comfy in the 32T. Plus, clearance is so much better with 32T than a 44T.

36T will give you decent clearance, but think about whether you will need to downshift too much.

 

[knottshore]

My $0.02:

I mentioned above I have a hardtail 1x9, 32T x 11-34T, and a dualie triple 44-32-22T x 11-34T.

The 1x9 proved to me I didn't really "need" a 44T for my style of riding, plus it kept hitting or scraping obstacles, so I decided to convert the triple to a double. Removed the 44T and added bolt spacers, and replaced the 32T with 36t and the 22T with 24T.

BUT, I found after only 2 rides I hated the 36-24 set up. I was used to riding the 32T most of the time on the triple and all of the time on the 1x9. With a 36T, I had to shift the front der. too much. Shifting the front der. on a mtb is a PIA.

So I changed the triple to bash-32-22, and that is perfect for that bike and my fitness level. I only need to shift the front on the steepest and longest of hills. Otherwise, I'm comfy in the 32T. Plus, clearance is so much better with 32T than a 44T.

36T will give you decent clearance, but think about whether you will need to downshift too much.

So true-:thumbsup: the 32 is still a sweetspot for most of us, I have been talking to quite a few riders that changed over to the 2X Sram XX stuff or done a conversion like I have to find out how they like it on the trail. Some of them felt there was quite a lot of FD shifts going on (smooth as they say XX can be it still "felt" odd). On the other hand many of them felt that they were simply able to push a slightly bigger ring up front... 36, 38, 39 etc... once they had a few rides in, especially matched with the 36T rear cassette.

Part of the reason I am fiddling around with this (other than I just like to tinker with my bikes) is to find out what (if any) would be the best 2X10 crankset gearing if I decide to plunk down the cash on some later down the road or if simply leaving the 44T off and going 24T/32T and a bash like you ended up with. I think it has a whole lot to do with the rider's style, bike and terrain as far as what the "right" gearing ends up being- like anything it is best tested on your own stomping grounds- I guess time will tell for me-

I have considered this as well since my frame is not too easy to put many if any other chain devices on - plus it comes in 28, 30, 32, 34... T

http://www.widgit.com.au/

 

[boomn]

My $0.02:

I mentioned above I have a hardtail 1x9, 32T x 11-34T, and a dualie triple 44-32-22T x 11-34T.

The 1x9 proved to me I didn't really "need" a 44T for my style of riding, plus it kept hitting or scraping obstacles, so I decided to convert the triple to a double. Removed the 44T and added bolt spacers, and replaced the 32T with 36t and the 22T with 24T.

BUT, I found after only 2 rides I hated the 36-24 set up. I was used to riding the 32T most of the time on the triple and all of the time on the 1x9. With a 36T, I had to shift the front der. too much. Shifting the front der. on a mtb is a PIA.

So I changed the triple to bash-32-22, and that is perfect for that bike and my fitness level. I only need to shift the front on the steepest and longest of hills. Otherwise, I'm comfy in the 32T. Plus, clearance is so much better with 32T than a 44T.

36T will give you decent clearance, but think about whether you will need to downshift too much.

Thanks for the first-hand advice:thumbsup: I appreciate real-world experience more than anything else.

To explain my last post further, I'm trying to recreate the gear ratios of my current 1x9 using the 26t inner, so this is where I should be spending most of my time for not just climbing but normal, varied trail riding. This is also why I chose a larger inner ring, and why I think I would prefer something even larger like a 28-30t inner ring.

A big ring isn't normally part of my riding style either, and so I haven't had one on my bike or any of my previous bikes going back a couple years. However this bike is a little different purpose for me, and will see some xc racing and hopefully a lot of road and fireroad use with Nano's and even cross tires, so I wanted a higher gear option as well.

A single ring setup with a wide range cassette and a larger front ring might achieve a lot of that same range, but I want to use a more durable, care-free cassette setup using less cogs spaced out wider and relying on never-out-of-index friction shifting. So instead of having a few cogs with huge, awkward jumps between shifts, I thought it might be better to use a smaller gear range in the cassette and combine that with a ring appropriate for trail use and a ring appropriate for road use

Or so my theories, daydreams, and endless calculations have told me My goal is definitely different than knottshore's, so I hope I'm not confusing this whole thread

 

[frdfandc]

I just ordered a 26T, 36T and a bash for my 2x9 setup. Gonna suffer a little bit with this change from the normal 22/32/44 11-34 cassette setup that I'm currently running.

But I think it will be better for me in the long run.

 

[the mayor]

I have been running the Xt 771 26/36 rings for almost 2 years now works great. I put on a Blackspire 38t for flatter/faster races once in a while...it works fine too...but really don't need it on my 29er.
Using a Dura Ace front der and XTR levers to shift them

 

[knottshore]

I just ordered a 26T, 36T and a bash for my 2x9 setup. Gonna suffer a little bit with this change from the normal 22/32/44 11-34 cassette setup that I'm currently running.

But I think it will be better for me in the long run.

D- if your looking for suffering skip the 2X and just build yourself a SS... You know you would like it...

 

[frdfandc]

D- if your looking for suffering skip the 2X and just build yourself a SS... You know you would like it...

Gonna do that too, but have to wait a tad longer. Still no bites on the Kona and Easton XC One's.

 

[knottshore]

On the trail:
Sad to say it has not been a plentiful year for mtb time so only a few miles on the 2X set-up. With the trails a bit slow with snow/ice I was worried I would be forced to make multiple front shifts, more so than with a trusty 32T, but it did not prove to be the case. I was able to push the 36T a bit more than I thought and if I did hit a climb that I used the 26t ring- I did not feel like I needed to quickly shift into the middle ring -

So far so good, the better shape I am in the better I will like it I think, it just keeps you out of the snails pace granny and forces you to carry a bit more momentum, which for me and the xc trails I ride is a nice mix (me being lazy at times and wanting a little less pain, relying on the granny to relive me, not a "need"). I will keep running it for a while and see how I adapt and if there is any real or imagined benefit on the trail-

Here are some on the trail pics-