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Playful/nimble Enduro bike

13K views 232 replies 45 participants last post by  Blkdoutindustries  
#1 ·
Hi, looking for recommendations on frames, sold my Enduro S-works and my Arrival 170 so need another bike for park season mostly in Sunrise, AZ and tamarack, ID if familiar with the area. looking for something that's as little more nimble than my previous bikes since I ride a lot with my girlfriend and her parents during summer so I end up doing a lot of blue trails, while I really enjoyed my Enduro I found it to be on the boring side and a little cumbersome on more mellow trails, bike wasn't happy unless going straight down.
While I still want a bike that can do all that I'm looking for something that can't be a little more engaging on blue/flow trails when riding with them. Reading reviews it seem like Yeti SB150/160, gen 5 Slash, Megatower V1 are in the more balanced side of ride style but open to other ideas, prefer carbon and needs to be a 29 and boost since I have a couple Berd wheelsets for that.

Thanks
 
#45 ·
That was a stupidly fun nimble/playful bike, wish the frame didn't crack on me.
Canfield Toir (Riot)

The previous gen Process 153 looks like it was a nimble/playful bike, too bad they school bussed it.

I really don't understand modern geo.
Not everyone wants or needs these school bus geo bikes, there are so few options these day for geo like older long travel bikes.
Canfield Lithium or Tilt have somewhat playful geo or the Pivot Switchblade.
 
#46 · (Edited)

Hightower (size L) is the most sensible choice, given what you said.

I recall that I was eyeing the Nukeproof Giga in med before it went kaput. Honestly, hard to recommend many of the enduro bikes in size L and above, but they look great in size med. I'm currently eyeing the Ibis HD6 in med.

I figure that it's a little fun to entertain the alternative unknowns, to compare to the one that a bit of brain power chose as the safe optimal route. Like scoping out the hot supermodel dates, to compare to life-long partner material.

Thanks for all the suggestions, a little more background just in case, I'm 5'10 with a +4 ape index (all arms) 148lbs, preferred reach is anywhere from 455 to 475ish. I still want a bike that can rip downhill for when I ride with friends or do blacks on my own but just don't want one that feels dead on mellow trails but I know that's going to be hard so I'm thinking it's going to have to be something in the 455-460 with a HA in the 64s or when 65. Ideally coil compatible.

I've demoed a couple Pivots and was looking at a switchblade but just couldn't get along with the ultra short CS, most are 429-430 but might have to give it a try again.
Doesn't have to be full 29 since I have a rear Berd 27.5 I just don't want full 27.5 since I have thousands on new Berd wheelsets already. Would a mullet/mx inherently be more playful than full 29?

Bikes I've been looking at:
Megatower V1
Gen 5 Slash
SB150/160 but aware of warranty issues
SJ Evo
Rail 29
Switchblade

ST Evo is the one I'm thinking firs the best with the adjustable geo bit will look into SJ15 to see if it can do the same. I have a short travel bike for longer rides so this bike would be mostly used for park/shuttle rides.
 
#48 ·
By Plummets own admission I think he only thinks about DH and playful to him may just mean... It moves around a bit lol

He can correct me if I'm wrong. And show off his 50to01 gear if he's a true jibber. But again, I don't think anyone thinks of playful the way it's most attributed to. For sure any bike can be taken off a side hit on a basic trail. But how easily can it be thrown around in the air, whipped, bunny hopped and 180'd and nose picked over a switchback etc etc

If it takes a literal PRO to do all those things on the bike, a la Macaskill, then maybe the bike isn't actually playful lol
And what modern bike can't be easily whipped, bunny hopped and 180d or nose picked? I am very lame rider is the modern world, so can't do 180 or a proper good whip, but that's not the bike, that's just me, Nose Pick or Bunny hop (unless we are talking a huge trial sizes ones) are just normal bike skills. My friends on big modern bikes can do easily do all of this and more.
 
#49 ·
I ride at Sunrise a few times a year and live in Scottsdale so I thought I’d be able to recommend something with ease but the two bikes I absolutely love for your application are a Firebird (superboost) and Atherton A.170 (MX only). I’ve ridden my Firebird a ton at Sunrise and it is great there. I didn’t get the A.170 in time to take it there this year but it is astonishing how much fun it is to ride this bike. Even at 40lbs, pedaling up Alpe at Hawes is a pleasure and it is great heading down as well. Neither meet your needs though due to wheel set specs.

I also have a Trek Slash+ 9.9. I don’t love it the same way I do the other two I mentioned but it makes me think the Trek Slash (non plus) may work nicely for you. If I had to have an e-MTB for park and Hawes/South Mountain it would be the Slash+ and the regular Slash is basically the same from my understanding.
 
#56 ·
It has to be a numbers thing. If you just continually move the goal posts on who can do what on which bike... You will never get anywhere.

Look at Sam Pilgrims youtube channel. If his RIDING is what makes a bike palyful... Inherently... Then there is NO possible category lol. Nobody will be served.

Again, I'll put it it numbers and Slimat can tell me if he agrees or not. But for me 435mm rear center is when a bike starts to lose its playfulness, and only really achieves it through high speed stuff or a crazy high stack/reach ratio near 1.4 (a la Capra). I do NOT consider the YT Capra, even in MX, playful... But if you are skilled enough to get up to speed and do 'bigger' stuff that is playing around, it can be. So inherently, it's not a playful bike if it's only a niche trail to ride to generate speed and pop/lift.

Shorter than 435mm is great. And bikes that have a shitty ratio like lower than 1.3 messes up its leverage to pull on it as well, and may need a riser bar to 'fix' it.

Again. Zink Vacay. Kona Process 167. Some of the best play bikes ever released in the MTB industry (that can still run a dropper and ride a trail as normal). Basically slopeduro bikes capable of running 12sp drivetrains and a dropper.
Does it have to have numbers to it though? Or is it just not a category but more a feeling/description relative to your abilities?
 
#59 · (Edited)
A bike should get disqualified from any sort of playful/nimble trait if it requires you to adapt to poorly balanced geo, IMO. By adapt, I mean the frequent need to get your body weight forward to compensate for poor front wheel traction, or weight back to compensate for non-gravity-friendly geo. Everything you use to define playful/nimble, like HTA, CSL, etc. gets thrown out the window once you are riding something technical on such a bike.

If your body weight is already in the right place for great front wheel traction, and confidence to plow, you can then be free to initiate whatever techniques you want from a strong ready position, rather than needing to return to that position from a forward/rearward or comfy pedaling one. Preferably, the comfy pedaling position is also the strongest ready position (seated position not too far from standing position, with steep enough STA). The bike becomes playful if you actively engage on popping off whatever feature that comes on the trail, since you don't need any extra time to prepare for it, like getting in the right position to not wreck yourself.

The key to this is essentially centering the rider in the right spot between the axles and/or tire contact points, and this often is dictated by where the BB is located. BB height, rear center (CSL) and front center (or WB minus RC), are the key geo figures to consider. BB drop is also worth considering, as the more BB drop you have, the more influence that weight on the cranks has on the axles, keeping it stuck to the ground (less reluctant to lift, or in other words, less playful). 60/40%, as exactly as possible, weight distro between rear and front is a great starting point (measured by scales under each tire).

In other words, this balance is what separates great bikes from bad* bikes (more like mediocre, because by my definition 99.9999% of bikes are bad). You don't want a bad bike that's playful/nimble, as it compromises its performance in tech. This is what the OP and many other shoppers are worried about. This balance is so delicate, that it's what you feel when you take the same bike in two different sizes out onto technical terrain that tests your traction, and techniques to maintain traction. The one that feels more intuitive (AKA natural, less complicated) to ride is the more balanced one. You don't have to adapt to the bike, you don't feel like you're a passenger holding onto something that you don't have full control of--instead, you feel like you're the rider, and you're the one guiding the tires with as much precision/resolution as you wish. When you're flowing on a good balanced bike, you can pump up the adrenaline and enter your "in-the-zone" mode and things might actually become slow-mo, as you time your moves precisely with twitch-like reaction speed. This doesn't happen on a bad unbalanced bike; you'd feel anxiety instead. Though, I guess relief can be interpreted as stoke, if you manage to overcome the anxiety/fear.

Depending on how in-tune you are with noticing this balance, what can separate a good bike from a bad bike is picking the right size. A Canfield Riot/Toir would feel great, maintaining its playfulness and nimbleness in all-around conditions/situations in small and maybe medium, but it's going to force you to adapt to poor front wheel traction in Lg and XL in the tech. This niggle might be easy to live with when you are still in your new bike stoke phase, but I bet once that fades, you're going to hope for a successor that addresses that niggle to get that perfection you imagine. That or you do some weird overcompensation, getting the most aggressive front tire and most supple fork you are willing to throw money at, and end up with a mutant that still has you looking for some better solution/compromise that you can settle with.

If you consider every individual size as a different bike, like a 2023 SC Hightower S, M, L, XL, XXL being 5 diff bikes, and I only consider the Lg to be great for someone 5' 11" and 145 lbs, you can see why I might consider 99.999% of bikes to be bad (for that one person; a med Hightower might suit someone 5' 10" and 190 lbs). Brands that adjust CSL according to the WB, might have 2 to 4 out of 5 sizes that I'd call great, like some Norco bikes (XS and S tend to not be great, on a vast majority of models). It's no wonder that people with decades of riding, and experience with dozens of bikes, who don't want to settle for something less than the best, still look for input from others to find the singular best choice out of 10s of thousands of choices, since many of us have gone on that journey as well, and have insight to share. We just probably don't have money to throw away to keep reiterating on what we learned.

It's not like you remain static on a great bike, it's more like you let the bike freely rock back-and-forth under you (not deathgripping all stiff-like, like a newb on a mechanical bull, but loose and confident). It's the bike that is pitching back (making you look aggressive), or pitching forward (making you look like you're rolling something steep), reserving your actual body movements for corners, jumps, line changes, etc. All you are doing is keeping your hands on the grips, standing on the pedals with knees bent a little, and scanning the terrain, saving energy for techniques that are either fun or meaningful. If we're overwhelmed with stuff to handle, like needing to be rearward just the rigggght amount to flow correctly, we'd be dragging brakes to give enough time to do so, which also means we need to compensate for the lower traction under braking and potential loose rocks that get dislodged from braking forces.
 
#71 ·
Correct, we are intentionally saying we want bikes that are bad for high speed tech because we will not be riding it in high speed tech.

It should NOT be your daily driver unless you literally never intend to ride trails.

Playful bikes are inherently unbalanced. Short rear center and high stack reach ratio is intentionally unbalanced. THe Zink Vacay is intentionally unbalanced.

But I think this thread kinda... Got hijacked at some point. I don't want to ruin OP's intentions.

Again, the actual play bike basically doesn't exist in the industry anymore. The Trek bike Semenuk and Emil ride is not production. Fully custom, one-off. Zink's Vacay is the only one arguably.

So yeah. Sorry if we kinda bogarded OP's thread. We can kinda end this with play bikes don't exist to be bought anymore. They have to be custom/frame-up. A la Dan Paley's bike a la Tom Isted's bike a la Semenuk and Emil's bike, etc.

In terms of what OP is describing, it sounds like you just want shorter wheelbase, steeper HTA bikes at most. That's as much as you can do in the modern industry. They're low key all making the same bike if we're being honest. (But that's a whole other conversation.)
Yep. What's really applicable to OP here is to considering sizing down on something that isn't too racy to begin with. I would look to 140 rear travel options too considering when you hit 150 and up most bikes are tuned to be more ground hugging. 140 out back with 160 up front can still charge the chop and huck and you'll have more pop from the "sporty" tune sub 150mm bikes tend to have.

I'm not going to recommend anything because I'm out of the loop. I ride full 27 which makes me a dinosaur. I'm basically riding a land line.
 
#69 ·
Makes my point exactly. We are not talkin about the same things lol

And therefore it has to be explained in 'objective' numbers.

Those guys are literally just riding a trail and popping a bit and angling off. (And GREAT riders.)

We can't take a Santa Cruz e-bike and say it's playful because Danny Macaskill is better than you on it.

We can't call an alloy enduro bike an XC bike because Nino Schurter would smoke all of us even if we were on carbon XC bikes. That doesn't get us anywhere.

We know what an XC bike is. The range it exists within. We know what a DH is. We have a vague idea of what enduro is, thanks to legends like Chaz riding a base Stumpy now.

While a play bike could be a wider range of things for sure, I'd leave it to a pro to tell us what it is.

Cam Zink made a bike with 420mm chainstays because he basically couldn't convince a brand to make one.

I'd love to know what the numbers are on the Trek "Sesh" rigs that Brandon and Emil ride. But it's not production so we may never know? Not sure.

A Spire can NOT be described as playful lol. If a Spire is then ALL bikes are playful. So there are NO bikes that are not playful. Don't know how that helps us lol
But describing it by Zink, Emil or Brandon, is so far from anyone riding bikes and even anywhere near what and how people ride. Yes, they are slopestyle / freeride fellas, that's why they need those bikes, because the things they do are so extreme they need a special bikes for it. Does that mean a Joe Bloke on a Brandon's bike will call it a playful bike? I doubt that very much.
A DHer will call most enduro bikes playful probably, XC people might call a trail bike playful, Semenuk might call Sesh playful. I still maintain that playful isn't a category, it is a description relative to skill level and riding style.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Jeff KW can ride ANY bike that way. And has proven so repeatedly. So how does that help us?

Again, it has to be numbers lol. I don't know why... You are trying to describe a feeling that is affected by skill level instead of a bike category?

Are we not trying to describe a bike category?

Again. I'm not here to tell people if George Carlin or Big Bang Theory is funnier. That wouldn't help ANYONE.

I don't want subjective feelings, I want objective numbers.

I DON'T think Brandon and Emil's Treks have similar numbers to a Transition Spire lol

Image


That's a BIG FALSE. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this myth. The real fact is that they still will outride mortals on mediocre bikes, but they still too require great bikes to be their best.

It's very evident from watching a rider like Sam Pilgrim riding various bikes. His bag of tricks dramatically shrinks proportionally to how bad the bikes are. He feels anxiety/fear on bad bikes still, too. But like I said before, relief from overcoming fear/anxiety can be interpreted as stoke. Stoke for people on great bikes tends to come from progression. The commonality is expansion of their comfort zone.

Of course, with most filmed performances, there's consideration of all the "takes" and "setup" it takes to pull some of this stuff off. A great bike will require far less of it. If you're nailing new tricks first time, the moment after you visualize it and have the confidence that you can pull it off, is that not better than being stuck on a bike that adds more complication because you have to adapt to less than ideal geo on top of executing whatever movement needed to pull the trick off? If it's that much harder to hold a manual, or needs to be held at a steeper angle or whatever, since the cranks are that much more forward of the rear axle...
 
#73 ·
Exactly, if they are pros and need that bike design. What hope do I have to ride in a playful way if I don't have the right bike?

I think you're thinking about this backwards.

Do XC racers race heavier, and slacker bikes just because they are good?

Do DH racers ride steeper short wheelbase bikes because they are good?

I'm just pointing out what play bikes are, objectively, by the numbers (as well as the fact that they don't really exist anymore).


TWENTY millimeters longer chainstay. THREE degrees slacker. SEVENTY millimeters longer wheelbase in the same frame size...

Which bike would you buy if you wanted to do playful riding?

We are just talking about different kinds of 'play'.

Me and Slim are talking about 360s and easy manuals and jibbing in skateparks and side hits and berm tracks.

You and Nat are talking about... A bike being able to maneuver on a trail.

Again, if a Transition Spire is playful. ALL bikes are playful.

If all bikes are playful. Playful has NO meaning as a word or category.
And the original poster was asking about a bit more playful bike on a blue track with his wife/partner that can still do park. So probably not a Zink's kind of playful? But Trail kind of playful? That's why Nat and I are describing a skill/style based feeling not a category. Or do playful bike exist only for people who do 360 and skateparks?
 
#88 ·
I already admitted this thread was hijacked and apologized for it.

I was under the impression OP already got their answer as... It's not a difficult thing to answer. Basically any bike that isn't slacker than 64 or longer than 440mm chainstay or whatever. Like. Did OP not get his answer yet?

Again, apologize AGAIN for hijacking the thread. Just hard to sleep at night knowing people are calling Spires playful lol. I feel like I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and people will be driving on the wrong side of the road, stopping on greens and going on reds... If a Spire is playful lol 😂
I hope you can sleep okay, because to me the Spire is playful.
 
#77 ·
It's a good argument so no worries but I'm going to clarify again what I'm looking for, I enjoy park/dh type riding primarily, I have a short travel bike for days I'm going to pedal a lot so this bike would be used 90-95% of the time with a lift or shuttle. My Enduro did that well but as I get older and I find myself riding more with my GF and her parents when we go to the cabin in Tamarack I'm looking for something that while I can still ride what I like if I'm alone or decide to do a couple runs by myself then when I'm back riding with them it doesn't feel like I'm riding a bus, most of the blue/Green trails there have a lot of switchbacks so while the Enduro could go down them it was like trying to maneuver and oil tanker down a river sometimes so I'm thinking I need to try some of the older geo long travel bikes with HA in the 64-65, reach in the 450s and CS around 435.
 
#83 ·
I mean it was flippant and exaggerative sure but...

I just need to know.

In my heart of hearts.

Do people think the Transition Spire is playful/nimble?

And to take it one step forward, that OP should get it since that is what he is looking for?

(Or even more importantly, what bike is not playful? What bike should OP not get?)
Transition seems to cater to people who fit a very specific profile--people who are shaped and ride like the people who developed the bikes. Not very different than how most other brands operate. That's why they market the culture behind the brand. If you fit that, then the bike will feel intuitive/natural and you can treat it as being playful. If not, then no, it isn't.

I'd say, if you fit size L and are a big but lean & athletic build, and ride terrain hard and fast like the people you see in their videos...

Trek seems to have a relatively tall guy doing feedback on their bikes (Travis Brown being one of the main ones?), as I find that either really heavy people or really tall people are the ones that jive most on their bikes (but the heavy ones often break them). Shorter types just seem to "cope", and like how they look. Their newer stuff tends to fit people who are more average, like their Top Fuel (size large, fitting someone the OP's size). Someone short like Casey Brown couldn't let loose with their best on geo made for bigger folks. Tracey Moseley and others are all coping, IMO... the playing field is even, with all bikes not being that great for them. Need to either be taller or weigh more to get good balance on some of those bikes.
 
#89 ·
I would like to know what... Everyone else thinks is a playful bike for the average rider on average trails at the average height (size mediums). I mean I was surprised immediately after the Spire a Yeti was brought up and I was like traditionally they aren't super playful either, low stack and longer chainstays. The linkage is kinda poppy but I'd rather have a linear linkage and lose small bump at 25% but with the right geo, instead of a yeti
I can't talk for average height (190cm / 6'3" ish). But I can definitely vouch for the firebird (semi-downsized, riding L...could be on XL). The way that bike corners just makes any trail fun. Nvm the other things it can do, but cornering was what I noticed straight away and by far my favorite feature of the bike. And I find good cornering playful.
 
#85 · (Edited)
I find myself recommending long travel bikes, enduro travel range, to people who want size medium and small. Considering that chainstay lengths on big wheel bikes rarely get under 430mm, need to push the front wheel out to get balance and proportions right. A slack HTA and long fork does just that, without changing up reach and other fitment figures too much.

The same enduro bikes in large/XL will have tall people questioning why anyone needs so much travel for the trails they ride, when they struggle with front tire grip on enduro bikes, and find their slightly more compact bikes like a Hightower (large) or downcountry bike rides the same stuff just as well, but with faster rolling tires. On top of that, they can brag that they didn't need so much suspension to do work for them. This is why I can understand why someone like Jack Moir opted to ride a size small Canyon Strive, despite being so tall. The balance mattered more to handling and performance/results, than the long term comfort of good fit. The size small had ~435mm CS and ~1230mm WB, IIRC.

With a great bike (optimal balance), you can run same tires front and rear, surprisingly even ones with minimal tread profile, even on long travel enduro bikes, and do surprisingly well. It's often the tires that dictate the riding style, moreso than the amount of travel. The wheelbase dictates the max speed the bike would feel comfortable at; long WB bikes don't really come alive unless you're going fast. That tends to mean something groomed like a green. A lot of techie blues don't allow that much speed. That's why I find 1230mm WB to be the sweet spot for trail bikes, and 435mm to be a good CSL to match it (add a few mm if you're heavy).
 
#92 ·
Read through this thread, fascinated that some people cannot acknowledge that some of the old-school MTB elements may have positives to them. Shorter wheelbases and smaller wheels are automatically less stable but more nimble. I think of it like this -

On my old 1998 hardtails, or my Evil Sovereign, all with 26” wheels and sub-42” wheelbases (I’m 5’-11”), I could pedal at probably 5mph and hit a 2x4 on the ground, or a speed bump, and use it to get air. That translates on the trail as the ability to constantly, and with little physical effort, do little jumps to change line, pop the bike up onto a rock, stick the bike into a strange corner line. And that’s fun. Conversely, the larger wheels and longer wheelbases of modern bike means you need some combo of a longer ramp, more speed, and more effort to launch the bike. You could hit that 2x4 sitting down at 30mph on a modern enduro bike and barely notice it. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s not what you’re looking for.
 
#96 ·
Read through this thread, fascinated that some people cannot acknowledge that some of the old-school MTB elements may have positives to them. Shorter wheelbases and smaller wheels are automatically less stable but more nimble. I think of it like this -

On my old 1998 hardtails, or my Evil Sovereign, all with 26” wheels and sub-42” wheelbases (I’m 5’-11”), I could pedal at probably 5mph and hit a 2x4 on the ground, or a speed bump, and use it to get air. That translates on the trail as the ability to constantly, and with little physical effort, do little jumps to change line, pop the bike up onto a rock, stick the bike into a strange corner line. And that’s fun. Conversely, the larger wheels and longer wheelbases of modern bike means you need some combo of a longer ramp, more speed, and more effort to launch the bike. You could hit that 2x4 sitting down at 30mph on a modern enduro bike and barely notice it. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s not what you’re looking for.
Not feeling 2x4 is more effect of suspension/tires? I can pop my CX bike of those, wouldn't call CX bike playful. I can get air of any speed bump on any bike, wouldn't call that playful. I do agree that for the slow speed tight tech old bikes were pretty good at and I occasionally do find a trail where that would be helpful in a few spots, but for the rest of the trail I would feel limited by an old bike.
 
#97 ·
Ok. So that's effectively not a category. To the extent playful mountain bikes don't exist for ya because mountain bikes that aren't playful don't exist.

Gonna make it tough to recommend bikes to people who don't feel that way. Guess we'd have to take a community poll on who does or does not think a mountain bike can be NOT playful.

To the extent I have no idea why Santa Cruz makes that 5010 lol... Sounds like its just less bike for the same amount of playfulness. May as well scrap it... (WAIT NO! NOT LIKE THA-... "Santa Cruz announces a re-release of the 5010 as a kids bike only from now on.")
Recommending bikes is like recommending food. Which menu item is the most delicious? I can tell you what I like but when it comes down to it, you have to try it for yourself.
 
#99 ·
Meh. I've spent a lot of time helping people buy bikes on reddit. And it's usually not that hard. But I CAN see it as being hard if you're the skill level of rider and mindset of rider who... Recommends the Spire as a playful nimble bike.

Typically just talking about the persons riding enough will get you into a place where you can recommend a bike based on their skill level, local terrain, and any past experiences they have to give ya.

Also if the only thing you can really say is "I like the bike I own and you have to try every bike for yourself." I mean you make it out like there's NOTHING you can do lol. Just hands up, step away from the table, thats all I got... I dunno

Similarly, despite me liking dual 27 bikes and shorter travel and steeper bikes and stuff. You'll notice I recommended the Capra and a few other similar builds to OP.

I didn't do it because I personally like the bike (quite literally, demo'd it and knew it was more bike than I'd prefer to ride).

I did it because it made sense for what OP said in his initial post.

But ya def not going to rock in to a thread. Just type out the bike I currently own/ride and then put up the deuces. "You're welcome." 😂

Man this is a far cry from the awesome spread sheet nerds I saw elsewhere in this forum. That shiit inspired me. Love it.
Well, the OP dismissed my suggestions anyway so you can rest easy.
 
#106 ·
probly just trolling but it is still 440+ rear center and healthy WB above 1200 even for medium. it's def a better shout for OP but he's kinda set a limit around 64 and 435 so... could at least look at the Sentinel. Just not the Spire lol

And that's the new re-released one, that they made steeper. Obviously the older one was at 63.5 so... And still 440 rc so not quite in OPs wheelhouse

Again, it's just Transitions design philosophy. Even their dual 27 model is 64 degrees. They like plow sleds.

In contrast to the common like 65.5 Marin Rift Zone and 64.5 Stumpy and what have ya

But I believe both the Capra and the Spectral can chip into 64.5, despite being longer travel

I think OP has a LOT of options which can def lead to that analysis paralysis. But for long travel that is still 64.5 and short CS, YT Capra kinda stands alone as a unique option still being 170/170. And shorter WB.

Also, and again not sure if OP is anti-d2c, but the new Capra models are SO consumer-friendly now (compared to the older crap model line up with SX/NX). Tons of alloy and carbon options. Deore instead of SX/NX. Cool Bomber packages. And changed the alloy models to threaded BB. Lot of good changes. Hoping it translates to their future models from now on.
I have to ask, have you ridden all of these bikes from which you're forming your opinions or is this geometry chart analysis?