Coming May 31st, according to Pivot website. Any ideas what it is?
My old Titus Switchblade was one of my favorite bikes ever.
My old Titus Switchblade was one of my favorite bikes ever.
Pivot Switchblade
BmanInTheD
901 - 920 of 3,171 Posts
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
They both did as the demo folks wanted to be able to install either set of wheels. I would run a SB with the spacer installed to get a slacker STA and higher BB so it was a good test.
My Mach 6 has a 160mm fork so the HTA is quite slack and it still carves up the same trails without a second thought.
Joined
·
6,054 Posts
i'm going to have to disagree with literally all of your negatives![Image]()
Large demo SB ^^^
I drove up to Cumberland BC this weekend to demo a couple Switch Blades. I got to try a medium and large. Both in 29er format.
I want to say thanks to Trail Bikes and On The Edge the Canadian distributor for putting on the event. They did a great job and I know running demos is not free nor easy. So thank you very much. :thumbsup:
I posted a full report at my blog: https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/pivot-switchblade-demo/
I'll summarize for folks that don't want to go there.
I rode solid BC blue trails. Mostly rolling with a few steep punchy climbs. Rocks and roots in places, but nothing crazy. These are forest trails so while they are not super tight twisty for what we ride they are narrow. A few wooden features for some fun and a fireroad climb to start and end the loop. Compared to our local trails the Cumberland trails are less techy and faster. which I assumed would favour a 29er.
In addition to the med and large SB I got to ride an XL Mach 6 as my friend Chris is looking for a new bike and wanted to try both the SB and M6.
Pros:
- really well made.....nicest carbon bike I have seen
- impressive suspension linkages/rear triangle stiffness
- I like the subdued graphics
- excellent tire clearance for wide 29er rubber
- no BB height pedal strike issues
- efficient suspension as you would expect from DW link
- nice ramp up so you didn't bottom out on jumps
- handled slow speed tech reasonably well
- I rode elevated skinnies with confidence
- accelerate really well on straighter rolling sections
- large frame didn't seem to be any harder to get round corners than medium
![Image]()
Medium demo SB ^^^
Cons:
- lacklustre climbing both on fireroads and on singletrack
- steeper climbing traction wasn't amazing due to forward body position on bike
- slow steering of 29er wheels was limiting factor for how fast we could go
- not super playful
- wide BB/q-factor felt awkward
- fox suspension was "meh"....not awful, but I expected it to be a lot better
I was surprised how poorly I was climbing with the steep STA. I couldn't generate the power I'm used to and with my weight more forward on the bike the rear wheel didn't have the traction I normally have on my Mach 6.
I was also surprised how big a difference there was between 27.5 and 29er wheels in terms of steering speed and precision. The XL Mach 6 felt like a scalpel compared to either SB.
I did have some moments of 29er magic when the trail was straighter and the big wheels could accelerate freely. I can see on open trails how I'd really dig a bike like this [if I can adapt to the steep STA].
When we got back from the second demo loop I was curious what my buddy Chris thought since he was really keen on getting a 29er and had no bias towards a Mach 6. His sentiments were pretty similar to mine and he said he was pretty keen on the XL Mach 6 now since it was a lot faster and more fun on the trails.
All in all the SB is a pretty amazing bike. I can see why people are enthusiastic for it. The steep STA issue is a personal preference/body geometry thing so I don't hold that against the bike. I could remedy that with a setback seatpost. The maneuverability/playfulness on our forest trails was the bigger issue for me. If a bike doesn't have the potential to be faster and/or more fun, particularly the later, there isn't much point spending the $$.
I got a parking lot test on a large Transition Smuggler while in Cumby. It felt like a limo compared to the large SB and it has terrible tire clearance so it's off my list.
I'm going to try and get trail demos on:
- Evil The Following [had a parking lot demo that was promising]
- Canfield Riot [interested to see how super short CS work on forest trails]
- Lenz Behemoth
- Knolly 29er [when it gets released]
Although I am starting to wonder if I'm not going to dig any 29er for the type of riding that I do. Once I get all these ^^^ demos done I'll know. If none of them turn my crank there won't be any doubt left.
On the plus side I got back on my Mach 6 at the end of the demo sessions and it was better than the SB almost everywhere, which is good since it's paid for! Except now I wish I had an XL frame.
Joined
·
6,350 Posts
One note regarding the 17mm cups: We've been installing them on all of the bikes (demo and sale bikes) so people can have the option of riding with it in (for 27.5 or 29) and not end up with a steer tube that's cut too short. It will slacken the HA but on demo bikes it lets us swap between wheels as needed. For me, I'd personally run it in 29" mode with the zero stack cup for faster handling but it wasn't really an issue riding with the 17mm cup installed (and the extra pedal clearance was kinda cool in some fussy sections)
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
Great review Vik.
@invol2ver - do you also ride a M6? Vik's review was more a compare and contrast and I am sure many have been wondering how the two bikes compare.
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
For sure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not for one second trying to say the SB is a bad bike. Reviews like this have to remain in the context of the terrain the bike is being ridden in and how that particular rider likes to ride.
Having had this SB demo I recall chatting with a guy in the parking lot of my home trail network a few weeks ago. He was riding an Evil Insurgent and I was asking him how he liked it. We got to talking more generally and he mentioned he started on an Evil The Following, but got the Insurgent because it was more manoeuvrable/playful on our tight trails.
I may just be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with my quest for a 29er for where I live.
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
I regret not trying the SB in 27+ mode now just for some contrast with the 29er wheels. After getting to try two SB's I felt like I'd be hogging the SB demo fleet going out for a 3rd ride.
I am going to take my Mach 6 to Trail Bikes later this fall to get the rear suspension hardware serviced and I'll see if they'll let me demo a 27+ SB while they work on my bike.
Joined
·
3,173 Posts
I totally fit this statement. But I'm constantly searching for a 29er that is as playful and quick as my B-6er. I want all the benefits with no downsides.
I always felt it was the longer CS that turned me off 29ers
Joined
·
302 Posts
Vik, first let me say that your review was very well written and thorough. I appreciate the effort that went into it.
Second, wow... your opinion is almost the total opposite of mine! I rode this and had almost the exact opposite reaction to each of your 'cons.
I'm always surprised how differently people can view the same bike... I totally respect your review (as it was very well written), I am just surprised.
Can I ask a few questions?..
"- lacklustre climbing both on fireroads and on singletrack"
When you say lackluster, what do you mean? Do you think the larger effective gearing (from the taller tires) is playing a role? Or is this related to how the suspension behaves?
"- steeper climbing traction wasn't amazing due to forward body position on bike"
Are you referring to seated climbing or standing?
"- slow steering of 29er wheels was limiting factor for how fast we could go"
Do you think the slow steering was a function of the head angle or fork trail? Or did it have to do with wheel weight?
"- not super playful"
I just cannot fathom this... this bike was so super-fun (though I admit I was riding the 27.5+ version of it).
"- wide BB/q-factor felt awkward"
But the BB isn't any wider... both the Switchblade and the Mach6 use a PF92 BB.?
"- fox suspension was "meh"....not awful, but I expected it to be a lot better"
Better meaning more plush? Or more progressive? I think the shock rate is quite different on this bike due to the shorter travel. Do you think the 'meh' feeling is in the area where you could tune it out?
Joined
·
6,054 Posts
I'm riding more techy stuff with my SB but I can see Vikb's point. Most if not all of the super aggressive riders here are rockin smaller wheels. If there was a 27.5 with longer CS, it might help with my long inseam. I might enjoy that. However, no matter how good the bike is, it can only help so much with my level of handling skills.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
As I travel around riding different spots and meet people it becomes apparent that the terrain and style people ride varies a ton so it's not totally shocking that we can come to quite different conclusions about a bike.
I was fairly surprised at how I felt after my two demo loops. That wasn't what I was expecting either to be honest. I figured I'd dig everything, but the steep STA.
So I didn't feel like the suspension was inefficient. No bob that I could detect. I left shocks and forks in open the whole time.
It felt like the big wheels didn't want to accelerate for me. And when I put more effort into the pedals and don't get the bike moving it doesn't encourage me to try harder...so I settled into a sit and grind mode. The bike went up fine, but nothing special. I was on Ardents the first loop and Highroller II's the 2nd loop.
Same climb on my personal bike and I'm dropping all the people that I was riding with before that didn't have a problem staying with me when I was on a demo SB.
As I posted in my review I don't think my body likes steep STAs. That's just a personal thing and other folks seem to really dig them.
I did stand up for some steeper punchy climbs and didn't find the result particularly inspiring. Not awful just nothing to write home about.
I do have lower gearing on my personal bike, but for the climbs on my demo loop I wouldn't have used it.
In terms of the rear wheel traction it was an issue for seated steep climbing because there was no way to move back on the saddle to weight the rear wheel more without standing. Once standing there was no issue.
My personal bike has a slacker HTA so I'd say it was the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels, but that's a guess. I don't know enough about fork trail to say anything useful on that.
So compared to my personal bike the riding position is more centralized on the SB and the front end felt heavier. On my Mach 6 it often feels like I am riding the rear wheel and the front comes up super easily. It's a short bike and changes direction fast so it's easy to hit everything on the trail.
On the SB the slower steering felt kind of clumsy and it was both hard to get the bike positioned as precisely as I wanted and to land back on the trail and be ready to make the next corner.
For trails that we typically ride the demo loop I rode isn't super tight or techy, but it's all relative. If I was on a wider more open trail I'd probably feel quite different, but that's not what we have locally.
When I got my Mach 6 it felt really twitchy despite the 160mm fork. It's 8lbs lighter than my SC Nomad and the suspension has been tuned to start plush and ramp up rapidly so it's very poppy. Now that I've owned it 3yrs instead of twitchy it feels very agile. It changes directions fast and I can put it exactly where I want it on the trail.
I'm pretty sure that the crank spindle is longer on the SB. I know when I was looking into if I could use my RF Next SL cranks on the SB I was told I'd need to buy the longer spindle for the crank arms.
Looking at RF's website my Next SL's have a 168mm Q-factor. The SB FAQ says the Super Boost Plus chainline will give you a Q-Factor of 173mm-177mm.
Again this is personal preference. Someone else might not notice and there are sure to be some people that like a wide pedal stance. I like riding my Mach 6 pedals as close inboard to the cranks as I can without rubbing them so I may notice the wider foot position more than other people would.
As noted above I've got my suspension setup to be plush off the top and ramp up so there is lots of mid-stroke support and pop. I've got a Pike on the front and a Float-X on the back.
The Fox suspension on all 3 demo Pivots felt quite harsh despite getting a decent amount of travel. The XL Mach 6 was the worst. It was truly awful. The suspension on the SBs just felt underwhelming. The sag was set at ~30% and we dropped some pressure from the first demo SB loop to the 2nd because it was far less plush than I expected. The 2nd loop was better, but still nothing to write home about. I ran both ends wide open. I'm not a suspension expert, but it felt like the compression circuit was not really open...despite the lever being in the right place. If I had just had one experience like that I would have said the suspension on the demo bike was not working properly, but all 3 felt similar though and the guy we chatted with back at the demo area said that's how Fox products felt. That didn't make sense to me.
I didn't bottom out and I had lots of mid-stroke support on the SBs. If I had another test ride I would have dropped the pressure again, but running 40% sag on a bike like that seems strange.
I have a Fox Float 36 RC2 on my Nomad which is a great fork....really plush. So I was surprised I didn't like any of the Fox 36 forks I rode. I've read a bunch of rave reviews about that fork.
My buddy who rode the large SB and the XL Mach 6 mentioned that he liked the XL Mach 6 geo, but the suspension was bad. I let him ride my personal bike and he came bike with a big smile on his face saying "that was more like it." I didn't want him turned off buying a Pivot because of bad demo bike.
As I alluded to earlier maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with a 29er for where and how I ride. I'll keep demoing bikes. It can't hurt.
What size stem and bar did it come with? A shorter stem and wider bar helped me get the snappy steering I like on my bikes...
Joined
·
15,593 Posts
So on my personal bike I run a 65mm stem and 720mm bars. The demo bikes had a shorter stem...I'm going to say 50mm, but that's just a guess and wider bars....say 740mm or 760mm...again a guess.
Joined
·
6,054 Posts
I've ridden with Vik here in Phoenix, so I know he's legit. And, as he's stated several times, it's tough to extrapolate experiences based on terrain; I personally haven't ridden the terrain he's in, so I have no opinion there.
That said, my own experience with my personal 'Blade here in the fast, techy stuff in Phoenix, is nearly perfectly 180 degrees from Vik's.
I think the climbing performance is pretty snappy for what the bike is. It's not as much of a downhill war machine as, say, a coil'd E29, but it will get down a mountain with quickness. One of the more playful 29ers I've owned. I'm pretty stoked with mine here in my terrain.
That said, my own experience with my personal 'Blade here in the fast, techy stuff in Phoenix, is nearly perfectly 180 degrees from Vik's.
I think the climbing performance is pretty snappy for what the bike is. It's not as much of a downhill war machine as, say, a coil'd E29, but it will get down a mountain with quickness. One of the more playful 29ers I've owned. I'm pretty stoked with mine here in my terrain.
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
Can you compare and contrast to the M6?
901 - 920 of 3,171 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
