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#2,501 ·
istvisinet said:
How do you like the HT, coming from a dw link pivot? I had Firebird (gen 1), 5.7 Carbon, and currently have a Blur LT V2 and my trusty Yeti ASR7, so I have extended riding experienced with all 4. Recently looking at 27.5+, Switchblade or HT, and I demoed the HT out at Papago and really really liked it but have not had a chance to demo the Switchblade. What are your general overall impression between the HT and the Bird.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I don't have much perspective on the Switchblade vs. the Hightower, but I can give you some thoughts on how the HT and the Firebird are for my riding style and terrain.

It helps to give a little background though - I started with Pivot on the 429 Carbon (Team Green) as my first real MTB - but quickly found it to be a bit overwhelmed in the chunky stuff. So that was when I purchased a Medium Mach 6 to compliment the 429 Carbon. I always felt super cramped on the M6 (this was before I understood what reach was) and upgraded to a medium Mach 6. That bike served me well for about a year, but still felt cramped in certain situations. I started understanding about reach, etc. and realized that the Mach 6, even in the large, was a very short reach bike. It was then that I sold it and upgraded to the Firebird. Total game changer. The geo on the 'Bird is just perfection for me. It climbs REALLY well (like not just for a 170mm bike, but well in general). No, its not going to beat a hard tail XC bike, but I think that folks who pedal up what they come down (and folks that actually descend chunky / rocky steep terrain) would really enjoy this bike as their one and only trail / park / AM bike. I think the Mach 5.5 probably hits the "one bike to rule them all" mark as well, but if you need more travel, the Firebird is your bike.

On the XC side, I ultimately traded in my green 429 Carbon for a 429 Trail. That bike is a REALLY great bike and for most people probably all they need. But again, in some situations, I felt I was on the edge of what the bike can handle at 140mm travel and the heat tube angle (the rear 116mm travel never gave me any pause). So it was up to either the Switchblade or the Hightower as the upgrade bike for my all rounder.

I tried both in the parking lot, and the HT felt more "neutral" to me in the sense that I felt right at home on the bike immediately. I also didn't want to have the boosty boost / additional wheel set / hub standard. So I bought the HT and it has been a great bike.

Ok - so now I have the Hightower (135/150mm) and the Firebird (170/170mm). Right off the top, the difference between DW link and VPP is subtle but its there. DW Link has slightly less anti squat, but at the penalty of being to handle square edges as smoothly - the best way I can put it is if you have DW link and let 3-5 psi out of your tires, you are approaching what VPP feels like - it just feels more compliant to square edge rocks. If you find yourself in chunky, technical terrain that you have to pedal through, I find the VPP better for this setting. The DW Link kind of gets hung up a bit more so it takes a bit more effort to get the bike through chunky sections. Once you are past the antisquat point, the linkage is very smooth and progressive. VPP on the other hand seems to make moving through slow speed technical sections a bit easier to time in the sense that the compression and rebound seem more "predictable" if that makes sense.

For climbing steep, loose terrain that is less chunky, the DW link, because the bike bobs a tad less, tends to hold its traction better. But I think a rider can adapt to this on VPP after a few weeks of riding.

For the Firebird, I feel DW Link is probably a better platform because it sort of keeps the bike from entering the "soft zone" of the 170mm of travel until you need it. Once you break past the antisquat, the bike is super plush. Additionally, it keeps the bike higher in its travel. This plus the 74 degree seat angle are what I think make the Firebird such a great climber. I don't think the Firebird with VPP would feel as good. Also in the case of pedaling through chunky terrain, the DW is your friend here as it minimizes how deep into the travel you get which can be tough to deal with in that kind of terrain.

A lot of this has been how the bikes climb. On the downs, it is what you would expect. In this case, the VPP maintains a nice feel over chunky rocks - it is lively without being too bouncy. The suspension feels very smooth and capable and I don't really think about the fact that the bike has 135mm suspension in the rear. For my riding, this bike could really be my one bike. With the 29 x 2.6 tires, I feel super confident on the HT.

The Firebird is really another level in terms of what you can do going downhill. Line choices are nearly inconsequential / rocks looks smaller / drops look shorter. Once past the antisquat and once you start hauling ass where the rear shock is in the middle of its stroke, it is just insane how the bike hauls ass over whatever you throw at it. The only concern one has would be trees, cliffs, man eating ruts, etc where even the Bird won't save you.

Hope that gives some perspective!
 
#2,502 ·
SDMTB'er said:
I don't have much perspective on the Switchblade vs. the Hightower, but I can give you some thoughts on how the HT and the Firebird are for my riding style and terrain.

It helps to give a little background though - I started with Pivot on the 429 Carbon (Team Green) as my first real MTB - but quickly found it to be a bit overwhelmed in the chunky stuff. So that was when I purchased a Medium Mach 6 to compliment the 429 Carbon. I always felt super cramped on the M6 (this was before I understood what reach was) and upgraded to a medium Mach 6. That bike served me well for about a year, but still felt cramped in certain situations. I started understanding about reach, etc. and realized that the Mach 6, even in the large, was a very short reach bike. It was then that I sold it and upgraded to the Firebird. Total game changer. The geo on the 'Bird is just perfection for me. It climbs REALLY well (like not just for a 170mm bike, but well in general). No, its not going to beat a hard tail XC bike, but I think that folks who pedal up what they come down (and folks that actually descend chunky / rocky steep terrain) would really enjoy this bike as their one and only trail / park / AM bike. I think the Mach 5.5 probably hits the "one bike to rule them all" mark as well, but if you need more travel, the Firebird is your bike.

On the XC side, I ultimately traded in my green 429 Carbon for a 429 Trail. That bike is a REALLY great bike and for most people probably all they need. But again, in some situations, I felt I was on the edge of what the bike can handle at 140mm travel and the heat tube angle (the rear 116mm travel never gave me any pause). So it was up to either the Switchblade or the Hightower as the upgrade bike for my all rounder.

I tried both in the parking lot, and the HT felt more "neutral" to me in the sense that I felt right at home on the bike immediately. I also didn't want to have the boosty boost / additional wheel set / hub standard. So I bought the HT and it has been a great bike.

Ok - so now I have the Hightower (135/150mm) and the Firebird (170/170mm). Right off the top, the difference between DW link and VPP is subtle but its there. DW Link has slightly less anti squat, but at the penalty of being to handle square edges as smoothly - the best way I can put it is if you have DW link and let 3-5 psi out of your tires, you are approaching what VPP feels like - it just feels more compliant to square edge rocks. If you find yourself in chunky, technical terrain that you have to pedal through, I find the VPP better for this setting. The DW Link kind of gets hung up a bit more so it takes a bit more effort to get the bike through chunky sections. Once you are past the antisquat point, the linkage is very smooth and progressive. VPP on the other hand seems to make moving through slow speed technical sections a bit easier to time in the sense that the compression and rebound seem more "predictable" if that makes sense.

For climbing steep, loose terrain that is less chunky, the DW link, because the bike bobs a tad less, tends to hold its traction better. But I think a rider can adapt to this on VPP after a few weeks of riding.

For the Firebird, I feel DW Link is probably a better platform because it sort of keeps the bike from entering the "soft zone" of the 170mm of travel until you need it. Once you break past the antisquat, the bike is super plush. Additionally, it keeps the bike higher in its travel. This plus the 74 degree seat angle are what I think make the Firebird such a great climber. I don't think the Firebird with VPP would feel as good. Also in the case of pedaling through chunky terrain, the DW is your friend here as it minimizes how deep into the travel you get which can be tough to deal with in that kind of terrain.

A lot of this has been how the bikes climb. On the downs, it is what you would expect. In this case, the VPP maintains a nice feel over chunky rocks - it is lively without being too bouncy. The suspension feels very smooth and capable and I don't really think about the fact that the bike has 135mm suspension in the rear. For my riding, this bike could really be my one bike. With the 29 x 2.6 tires, I feel super confident on the HT.

The Firebird is really another level in terms of what you can do going downhill. Line choices are nearly inconsequential / rocks looks smaller / drops look shorter. Once past the antisquat and once you start hauling ass where the rear shock is in the middle of its stroke, it is just insane how the bike hauls ass over whatever you throw at it. The only concern one has would be trees, cliffs, man eating ruts, etc where even the Bird won't save you.

Hope that gives some perspective!
Click to expand...
That was an awesome overview!
 
#2,504 ·
godfather said:
I wonder how much wheel/tire size plays a role in some of this assessment. 29x2.6 vs 27.5x?... I would expect the 27.5 to get hung up more easily.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I've ridden the Hightower with 27.5 x 2.8, 29 x 2.3, 29 x 2.5 and 29 x 2.6. In all cases the VPP is better for square edge absorption than DW Link (which I have also ridden with several size tires).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#2,505 ·
This is the first time I've ever heard where someone thinks that VPP is better at coping with square edge bumps and hits. I'm not arguing, I'm sure that is your finding, but I've always found the opposite to be true. That's comparing like for like when I was testing the Hightower, Ibis Mojo and the Switchblade to figure out what I wanted and it was one of the deciding factors for the Switchblade in the end.

I've had quite a few Intense and a couple of SC in the past but have always favoured the DW Link since I first tried one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#2,507 ·
I concur with mid-stroke performance being snappier or less vague/wallowy with DW, and that it tends to sit further up in the travel. I haven't had much time on the latest VPP bikes, and none on the HT, but square edge performance was always as good or better with DW for me. Less loss of momentum. I still think that wheel/tire combination will have an effect on this category of performance as well. Nothing in 27.5+ (2.8-3.0) or 29 of any size, 2.3 or larger in particular, will have the same rollover characteristics of a 27.5 of 2.6 or smaller. I'm sure the findings above are a real experience, but not exactly apples to apples in terms of the comparison. Nomad vs Firebird, Switchblade vs Hightower, 429 vs Tallboy, these would be more consistent comparisons.


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#2,508 ·
Not sure how DW Link be better for square edge bump compliance - the whole point of DW Link is to maximize anti squat - you don't get that for free - more anti squat will cost you a bit on square edge bump compliance. That's exactly what I feel on DW Link vs. VPP.
 
#2,509 ·
I'm not a suspension analyst, but if you're commenting on older iterations of VPP, you really need to ride the newest version.

I'm a fan of both, but for Phoenix riding, I tend to prefer VPP. Our trails are basically one square edge after another. DW does have a lot going for it, particularly on Pivot's current designs. Sits up high, clean tight design. But having owned a 'Blade, I'll stick with my Nomad.
 
#2,510 · (Edited)
Need frame only!! When will this happen? Maybe I'll just get a 429 trail and put my new 2018 Pike on it!! I had a chance to try the 429 trail the other day the trail really took off when putting the power down, light and playfull!!

Pivot please offer frame only ASAP!!
I have all the parts!! Onyx hubs there 157 hubs have always had the wide flange spacing and derby 29er 35mm rims, 2018 Pike only 66 grams more than the Fox 34 at 160mm air shaft coming on the 21st. Race Face G4 crank but I do not recommend this crank, they will break at pedal insert. 2 have been Warr. when it breaks again I will sell the new one! I may go with Project 321 Cannondale Hollowgram SL2 crank, I also love the new 216 points of engagement silent hubs, I have 2 sets that I love. Jake at Project 321 is the man!! Drivetrain its hard to beat Shimano xtr shifter and derailure with Srams XO1 11 speed cassette this cassette is the best on the market at 266 g and last 2 seasons. Take off the 42 large cog and put Wolftooth 46 on there and only add 8g of weight. 30 or 32 tooth ring on front and you have great range!! Bontrager XR4 2.4 tires, Fox dropper with Enve 40mm stem and 800mm bar, Ti bolts through out, XTR brakes with Shimano Ice Tech 180mm Freeza rotors on the Center lock hubs all on Med frame 27 lbs!!
 
#2,511 ·
8 days in Swedish forest with Switchblade

The bike suits very well for bike packing with a rucksack. It doesn't go over the bar easily, good pedaling efficiency on the trail, easy to stay balanced in slow speed as well, huge grip on tires. Quite a lot pedal strikes, Fox 36 went sticky after full day in rain but recovered after keeping the bike upside down over night, XX1 Eagle lost T10 gear due debris or damage, I9 free wheel skipped one click with loud bang too many times. If 27,5+ tire pressure is adjusted for wet root gardens, it will be quite a drag on road transitions. Anyways I can't think any better setup for this type of adventure. Soft , steady ride saves energy and your hands and ass will thank you, which is important during multi day ride with heavy load and very little recovery time.

Pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/Y639LDowS1nA8xbG6
GPS-track: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTzy8HUrLb_e4EEkc-geQxn8Lrs&usp=sharing

 
#2,518 ·
Hey guys I'm just starting to look into the switchblade. I did a demo on the Mach 429 trail and really liked it but I totally messed up and never took the switchblade out for a ride. I thought maybe it was too much bike but now am reconsidering. Anyways a couple questions, will this bike have room to run say a 2.5/2.6 in 29er mode? I am 5'10.5 with a 33 Inseem and rode the 429 trail in a large and it fealt good, Large or medium for the switchblade? Also any news on the horizon for 2018?
 
#2,519 ·
builtupbowtie said:
Hey guys I'm just starting to look into the switchblade. I did a demo on the Mach 429 trail and really liked it but I totally messed up and never took the switchblade out for a ride. I thought maybe it was too much bike but now am reconsidering. Anyways a couple questions, will this bike have room to run say a 2.5/2.6 in 29er mode? I am 5'10.5 with a 33 Inseem and rode the 429 trail in a large and it fealt good, Large or medium for the switchblade? Also any news on the horizon for 2018?
Click to expand...
I'm running Maxxis Minion DHF 29x2.5 WT front and back with no issues. Large Switchblade should fit you fine I'd guess. I'm 6 foot even with a 6'3" arm span and I liked a large 429 Trail, but I preferred an XL on the Blade. Frame size is so subjective for each person when it comes to mountain bikes. I'd recommend you get a test ride on the frame size you're considering if you can. Some shops have demos you can take out for a small fee. My LBS in Houston does this and applies your rental fee toward your bike if you buy one. I think that's pretty cool.
 
#2,520 ·
builtupbowtie said:
Hey guys I'm just starting to look into the switchblade. I did a demo on the Mach 429 trail and really liked it but I totally messed up and never took the switchblade out for a ride. I thought maybe it was too much bike but now am reconsidering. Anyways a couple questions, will this bike have room to run say a 2.5/2.6 in 29er mode? I am 5'10.5 with a 33 Inseem and rode the 429 trail in a large and it fealt good, Large or medium for the switchblade? Also any news on the horizon for 2018?
Click to expand...
I'm 5'11-6', and ride a Large 429T. I've ridden the Blade in M and L. I think someone our size could go either direction. The M was fun and playful, being a bit more nimble and could be moved around more easily in the air on jumps, more like a big bmx. The L was more stable and felt like I could push it harder. I prefer the longer reach on the L for descending for sure, particularly through the rough, at higher speeds, and in steeps. Even the M has a longer reach measurement than the L 429T though.

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