It only gets you an extra 10mm.

To fit full headset and full travel I need 20-30mm. +40 gives me a bit of wiggle room.

I currently am running it at 180mm with only a bearing/insert for a headset.

He was asking £250, add on import duty and postage and we are talking about serious money which for reasons that are eluding me I seem to lack at the moment.

Tuning the new damper is weird. I get it dialled perfectly for one tyoe of terrain, then it blows for anything else.

Admittedly I'm comparing it to a Dougal special, but it's weird.

Currently for off piste single track running 70/160 pressure I have lsc one from closed, hsc one from open.
It's pretty damn good, actually it's great.
Then I hit a trail centre and it's slow and blows me to pieces on fast rocks.

If I firm up the hsc by 1 click then the front deflects off roots. Any less lsc is smoother and faster, but lacks suppport.

If I up the pressure then the sag is too low and it's not tracking the ground.

If only there was a tune that could make it eat rocks!

 

I'm just pondering something and was wondering what people thought.

The tpc+ spring on my 2012 damper has failed.

I've fitted a replacement, close, but firmer.

I'm trying to think what difference this would make.

Most of the thinking is "not much".

The tpc+ valve would take longer to seat, but would provide slightly more damping until it does.

When the fork was in extension the valve would reset faster.

All of this sounds negligible to slightly better.

I guess the question is why was the original spring set at that rate and what does it achieve?

How far would a spring have to deviate from that to get a noticeable difference and what would the difference be?

 

I'm just pondering something and was wondering what people thought.

The tpc+ spring on my 2012 damper has failed.

I've fitted a replacement, close, but firmer.

I'm trying to think what difference this would make.

Most of the thinking is "not much".

The tpc+ valve would take longer to seat, but would provide slightly more damping until it does.

When the fork was in extension the valve would reset faster.

All of this sounds negligible to slightly better.

I guess the question is why was the original spring set at that rate and what does it achieve?

How far would a spring have to deviate from that to get a noticeable difference and what would the difference be?

Pretty much. It won't float as far under slow compressions as more oil is forced through the piston.

 

Well I've just approved the drawings, fingers crossed it works.

 

So I'm guessing no-one here noticed the missing steerer tube clamp on the drawings?!

It only clicked this morning AFTER they had said it was finished.

Fortunately, the guy had spotted the omission before making them too =)

that could have been embarrassing!

 

It's fitted.
I now have the ability to run the dorado at full 203mm travel, I'd formerly spaced out bottom out by 20mm to prevent crunch.
I dont think I've ever used 180mm travel on my Dorado, but I want to know the travel is there!
Actually thinking about it I've not removed the spacer!

It's nicely over built at 500g!

Amazingly enough I still have significant seat to bar drop. Very long legs

 

It's fitted.
I now have the ability to run the dorado at full 203mm travel, I'd formerly spaced out bottom out by 20mm to prevent crunch.
I dont think I've ever used 180mm travel on my Dorado, but I want to know the travel is there!
Actually thinking about it I've not removed the spacer!

It's nicely over built at 500g!

Amazingly enough I still have significant seat to bar drop. Very long legs

View attachment 2092158
View attachment 2092157

Now if we could just get some crowns and axle built for 150mm spacing!

 

Great job. What's with the notches on the front corners? I like your manual travel-adjust valve too.

 

Thanks.

Those notches are speed holes, or weight saving. It doesn't go the whole way through, there is a LOT of metal almost 3x the weight of the original.

As for the travel adjust I used to use it all the time on my old Dorado, but as bikes got longer it was only used for fitting the bike in the car, or the occasional super tech climb.

However as I can now get the front 25mm higher it might be useful to see what travel I prefer the fork at. I much preferred the spring feel on the last one at 190mm.

 

Yeah what is that valve? Looks handy for travel adjust

 

I've tried making my own, but the sealing was never good enough. The reset racing was only one that worked =(

 

Manitou did it 19 years ago with infinite travel. But that morphed into the Dorado air we have now without the remote travel adjust.

 

Exactly why the little valve would be handy

 

I made on of the Dorado air travel adjuster valve head a while back with simple DIY parts for my mattoc fork.
Used a donor shock pump valve head with a screw in valve engagement.
Stripped it out, and sealed up the air holes using epoxy metal, and hey presto.
Simply screwed in to engage the Schrader, then lift or lower the forks where you wanted and unscrew to set it.
Carried it in my pack for a while but never used it in the end.
Was too long to leave it on the fork all the time.

 

I considered something similar, but wanted to be able to connect a pump too.

 

Well the crown survived a week in Finale!

So that's a win, but the friction in my fork is excessive (the crown slackened the bike enough for me to notice).

On the flat in attack position if I push down on the bars the fork sticks. If compressed inline there is zero friction, so I'm thinking it's bushing/seal drag struggling with side loading.

I've checked damper side and it's definitely there. Not checked spring side, so not sure if both.

I'm currently using motorex 2.5 open bath.
Is there much difference going to 5wt with friction?

Any other ideas?

 

Alignment would be the first question. I have some new bath oils coming which may help. We've been playing alchemist for the last month.

 

What’s the head angle?

 

Obscenely slack.
Not measured but I'd estimate 58-60 degrees.

 

I've just got back from Finale and the warranty box is here.
I had one of my lowers marked due to bad bushing install.

I asked manitou to replace the lower leg and asked as a favour to provide a replacement adjuster for my 2012 dorado, and a bottom nut for the 2023.

They have not only sent the new lower, but a complete 2012 pro damper, and and complete 2023 pro damper, and a service kit and other bit too!

This is first time I've had to use manitou warranty.

Too say I'm impressed is an understatement!

 

Well I've stripped down the fork to check everything over and see if I could find out why it felt a bit ****.

Oil level was very low and oil was opaque dark brown!

That oil is only a couple of months old at most...

I swapped Dougal's magic valves and stacks to the new '12 pro damper and topped up again with 2.5 motorex.

Slippy as a greased penguin slipping on a banana skin.

So do the new seal ingest mud and need more frequent servicing?

On strip down the wipers still had clean grease. So why low dirty oil.....

Weird, very weird.

If I'd not wasted 5 minutes on Microsoft image generator I could have checked the head angle.

I'm trying jacking the bars up even higher to allow me to try more rebound damping and more sag (Dougal's spring calc suggested 30%, so worth a try).

 

Maybe you're riding more?

 

I generally ride a few rides a week. They are shorter in the winter, but muddier.

I will not read too deeply in to it unless it happens again.

I did have a couple of questions if you could advise?

When comparing my damper there were two differences with the new.

On the new mid valve the nut was loose, whereas I have been tightly securing mine.

Is it loose to allow float or it tight correct?

On your tpc+ stack I have positioned high flow for compression stack, whereas the stock has high flow for rebound check. I did note that the slow flow on your valve was similar to the high flow on the stock.

Are they both assembled correctly?

I've got photos but I'm presuming you want PI private.

Thanks

 

You want the clamp nuts only just tight enough. Too tight compresses the pistons and dishes shims away from pistons.

Yes I modified the TPC+ piston to run the other way.

 

Thanks. Seeing the pistons side by side really showed off how cunning your design is.

 

Well I've hit a problem I could use some assistance with if anyone is good with orings.

Im having issues with the seal between the '12 damper and the 37 tubes.

The first oring was a tad stiff, it took an age to remove. The current version I thought was good. However under heavy compression it was leaking.

This I think this was the root cause of the last issue.

So what material and hardness?

How much larger should the oring be than the gap?

Anything else I should know?

Thanks

 

The ID of the gap is 28.25
The OD is 33.6mm
The grove width (not that relevant, but I measured it) 3.2mm.

I've tried a 2.6mm CSA O-Ring which was far too small, and a 3.6 which is too big.

So my layman guess would be ordering a standard nitrile 3mm and hope for the best.

A quick search maybe suggests that viton may be better than nitrile. It all depends on the oil types and I don't know what's in Motorex?

So a 28 ID 3mm o-ring should seal... or do I want more width to seal better?

Is that the best approach or is there a science to this?

Thanks


EDIT: Corrected typo

 

Get a smaller ID 3.6mm o-ring and stretch it. This reduces the cross-section.

Standard NBR70 is the go.

 

I was having a ponder yesterday.
There is a large empty space between the outside of the damper cartridge and the lower tube.
It's currently sealed with an o-ring (with a better one on order, thanks for the help) to stop the oil filling the cavity.

What about filling that space with a closed cell foam?

Filling that space with a compressible material would remove the deep travel pressure build up we get with the open path damper.


Is this a good idea?

What's a good meterial?

 

I was having a ponder yesterday.
There is a large empty space between the outside of the damper cartridge and the lower tube.
It's currently sealed with an o-ring (with a better one on order, thanks for the help) to stop the oil filling the cavity.

What about filling that space with a closed cell foam?

Filling that space with a compressible material would remove the deep travel pressure build up we get with the open path damper.


Is this a good idea?

What's a good meterial?

That volume is closed off to get oil levels high enough for lubrication without silly amounts of oil (and the associated weight).
Yes you could use an open cell foam as a compressible volume spacer in there. But it seems like a project for minimal gain.

 

Why would you want to do that is the first question?

Most likely you will find that the air pressure contributes very little to the total spring rate until the last 20% of travel (just a random guess number). A rising rate spring like this near the compression limit can be beneficial to help recover wheel travel faster.

Unless it is for human comfort then you should be wary of any anti-bottoming system which also significantly increases rebound damping to help control rebound in bottom out events.

 

I've not measured the pressures, but it gets high enough to blow oil past an oring and I hadn't used enough travel to reach the hydraulic bottom out.

There is already significant ramp in the main spring and we have a hydraulic bottom out too. This is just extra ramp with the open bath damper you don't get with the closed.

Just pondering ideas.

 

I emailed reset racing in English ages ago and got no response.
Emailed them in German and they responded in English =)

They have a few of these left as they made a promotional batch.

Ask nicely and they may sell.

reset-racing.de

I ordered a set of spare seals too. Be aware the square shaft seal is not supposed to be replaceable and isn't included in the kit unless you ask.

If you do need to replace it be aware I needed to saw a lot of item away to get at the circlip.

 

I was considering it to remove the ramp up in pressure, however with further checks I think the ramp up is negligible.

As you say, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I'm still considering trying the 5wt oil.

I like how the fork rides with lsc FULLY closed. Past the final click, turn until you can feel the adjuster bottom.
Thicker oil would reduce the bleed and presumably lubricate better. However as I like lsr fully open that could feel worse.

I'm not sure why I like the fork set so strangely, but the chassis control and support is amazing.

I think it's because I'm so freaking tall that the high centre of gravity needs a lot of damping to stabilise.

Off to another race tomorrow, it's going to be good =)

 

I was considering it to remove the ramp up in pressure, however with further checks I think the ramp up is negligible.

As you say, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I'm still considering trying the 5wt oil.

I like how the fork rides with lsc FULLY closed. Past the final click, turn until you can feel the adjuster bottom.
Thicker oil would reduce the bleed and presumably lubricate better. However as I like lsr fully open that could feel worse.

I'm not sure why I like the fork set so strangely, but the chassis control and support is amazing.

I think it's because I'm so freaking tall that the high centre of gravity needs a lot of damping to stabilise.

Off to another race tomorrow, it's going to be good =)

I have a new lube oil that you may be interested in. Tests showing half the friction of 4wt (we didn't test against 2.5wt). I'll flick you an email.