Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
41 - 60 of 72 Posts
Discussion starter · #41 · (Edited)
Thank you for all of this! Have you tried the Troy Lee with the new D3O Diablo pads? Curious to see how this new tech stacks up.
No, I haven't tried any guards with the D30 Diablo. Looks like Troy Lee uses the Diablo L1 (level 1) intheir Speed Pro, and the Diabo L2 in their Stage Pro. Glad you brought it up...I need to try the Diablo and see how they compare against all these other "Gen 3" Printed-type protective inserts! I just ordered the standalone D30 Diablo LP2 guards, which I can insert into one of the sleeves I already have to compare. The Diablo appears to be another printed elastomer guard, like the Leatt Ultralite and Koroyod, and I expect will feel similarly "rubbery" in comparison to the traditional D30 Viscoelastic foam. I'm still not convinced, despite the machine ratings, that these new gen "printed elastomer" type pads will protect as well as the traditional, thicker, ge-foam pads...as there's only so much a thin sheet can do in my opinion. The Diablo L1 is said to be 6.5mm thick (similar to the Leatt Ultralite) and the Diablo L2 is 9.5MM thick (which would be 1mm thicker than the RHEON knee protectors). I highly doubt we'd notice any difference between the Diablo L1 and L2 when pedaling, so I just went straight to the L2. And since I was there placing an order, I also go the D30 LP1 and LP2 foam inserts (pictured on the right)...(If the Diablo is Gen 3...printed Elastomer, the LP range of "gel-foam" pads would be Gen 2. I still like gel viscoelastic foam material alot (as mentioned previously, I found the LP1 foam insert within the Endura MT500 Lite absorbed impacts better than the thinner Level 2 rated RHEON insert.

Image
Image
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Modular. That's the word. What I think I like about these printed elastomer pads, being so thing, breathable and flexible, is that they are perfect candidate for modular knee pads. One of these companies needs to design a system whereby it comes with a couple different thickness, whereby you can choose thin, or slightly thicker offering...or stack them for ultimate impact protection. I've already found that the Leatt Ultralite insert (just 6mm thick) stacks very well under the DHARCO RHEON inserts...or I even stacked 2 of them within my IXS Flow sleeve and liked it even better than the X-Matter pad (more breathable, more flexible, and to my testing...more protective). Until a company creates a modular system, it's fairly easy to do yourselve...as many of these pad inserts you can by after-market, and "most" of the pad sleeves/pockets are pretty comparable in size allowing you to interchange the protective inserts.
 
No, I haven't tried any guards with the D30 Diablo. Looks like Troy Lee uses the Diablo L1 (level 1) intheir Speed Pro, and the Diabo L2 in their Stage Pro. Glad you brought it up...I need to try the Diablo and see how they compare against all these other "Gen 3" Printed-type protective inserts! I just ordered the standalone D30 Diablo LP2 guards, which I can insert into one of the sleeves I already have to compare. The Diablo appears to be another printed elastomer guard, like the Leatt Ultralite and Koroyod, and I expect will feel similarly "rubbery" in comparison to the traditional D30 Viscoelastic foam. I'm still not convinced, despite the machine ratings, that these new gen "printed elastomer" type pads will protect as well as the traditional, thicker, ge-foam pads...as there's only so much a thin sheet can do in my opinion. The Diablo L1 is said to be 6.5mm thick (similar to the Leatt Ultralite) and the Diablo L2 is 9.5MM thick (which would be 1mm thicker than the RHEON knee protectors). I highly doubt we'd notice any difference between the Diablo L1 and L2 when pedaling, so I just went straight to the L2. And since I was there placing an order, I also go the D30 LP1 and LP2 foam inserts (pictured on the right)...(If the Diablo is Gen 3...printed Elastomer, the LP range of "gel-foam" pads would be Gen 2. I still like gel viscoelastic foam material alot (as mentioned previously, I found the LP1 foam insert within the Endura MT500 Lite absorbed impacts better than the thinner Level 2 rated RHEON insert.

View attachment 2162627 View attachment 2162628
I am not trying to be dismissive, or argue just for argument's sake, but when you talk about layering pads, I personally have just never had a reason to do that. I would expect layered pads to lose mobility and honestly functionality over a more robust pad that's simply designed to have more protection.

the point of semi- and true hard shell outer layers is durability, they don't get chewed up when you slam & slide like a lighter weight paid that's covered in fabric (especially mesh fabric). it's thicker, but if you slam your knee on a boulder at 20 mph, I think either pad is going to help as much as anything can, and you're going to have bruising and possibly joint and soft tissue damage, just because of the forces involved.
 
Discussion starter · #44 · (Edited)
I am not trying to be dismissive, or argue just for argument's sake, but when you talk about layering pads, I personally have just never had a reason to do that. I would expect layered pads to lose mobility and honestly functionality over a more robust pad that's simply designed to have more protection.

the point of semi- and true hard shell outer layers is durability, they don't get chewed up when you slam & slide like a lighter weight paid that's covered in fabric (especially mesh fabric). it's thicker, but if you slam your knee on a boulder at 20 mph, I think either pad is going to help as much as anything can, and you're going to have bruising and possibly joint and soft tissue damage, just because of the forces involved.
No worries, discussion and counter view points is good with me!

And you're right, there's really not any reason you couldn't just have 2 or 3 different pads for different types of uses/protection.

Up till now, I never had reason to even think about laying pads. It's just that, upon trying out a bunch of these new pads with these new gen, thinner, "printed" elastomer pads...I realized that even when rated at level 2, I found them lacking in impact protection (that is to say, they hurt my knee more than Level 1 rated X-Matter type foam pads when I "tested" by smashing my knee into hard objects". So layering these thin "printed" pads, it was immediately evident it produced massive amounts of protection...and yet still felt more breathable and flexible than the aforementioned viscoelastic foam pads; they conformed better too. And finally, to the point of my previous post, there's surely some benefit to modularity. For instance, I found the DHARCO Gravity knee guards to be a great, light weight, pedal friendly and breathable pad that, in their stock form, would be great for trail riding and even aggressive trail...but I personally wouldn't trust them for what I consider "gravity" protection. Yet, throwing the Leatt Ultralight insert underneath (I have extra of these), I feel like I have a true DH capable pad.

Or just stick with old-school viscoelastic foam (which I still like and trust)...I haven't decided which camp I'm in yet.
 
For what it's worth, I ride with the Akta knee pads that use the D3O LP1. I find them very comfortable, but looking for something that has more breathing. Interesting that you can buy and replace just the insert.

 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
For what it's worth, I ride with the Akta knee pads that use the D3O LP1. I find them very comfortable, but looking for something that has more breathing. Interesting that you can buy and replace just the insert.

Yeah, possibly the new Diablo L1 would deliver what you need...certainly going to be a bit more breathable and flexible...but I do question if the protection will be on par. Maybe even step up to the Diablo L2 (but I can't find the full-size Diablo L2 in stock right now...just the "compact").

Hmmm, I wonder if those Akta knee pads just came back in stock here in the US...I was looking to buy a pair at one point, couldn't find them. That ship has sailed though, as I already picked up the DHARCO gravity, which looks to be a very similar sleeve design.
 
The Akta pads are great, but very much level 1 protection. They're the coolest temp full sleeve pads I've worn and VERY confortable. But paying $65 duties on a $93 purchase is crazy.
 
They are local to me, this whole duties thing on both side of the border is annoying. I might do what RAG2 suggested, Get the lvl2 3DO Diablo insert and use that, as it's the same thickness as to what's in it currently. And looking online, the pad is the exact same size.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Just took delivery of RaceFace Covert knee pads with D30 GHOST protective insert. My oh my, the GHOST is GARBAGE! Unlike all the other printed inserts, this thing is basically just hard plastic, and the protection on offer is dismal (hurt more than any other pad I've tried when I slammed my knee into the rounded corner of my steel safe). The backing is breathable, fwiw. I like the Covert sleeve though, for a minimalistic-pad (runs small).
 

Attachments

I just tried riding up and down my street with a new pair of Ion Arcon Lt pads. I've never worn anything with a sleeve that is this long. Would it be normal for the upper portion of the sleeve to slide down until it basically is stopped by the pad itself? From the pad itself down to the calf portion everything still stays in place where it should be. I'm leary about keeping these and trying them on a real ride as I won't be able to return them at that point. The sleeve itself is very snug. Actually tight enough that the I first tried them on I though they might be too small. I think it might just be that the rubber gripper is just pretty useless. Does not feel grippy compared to many or leg warmers or shorts I own.

Image


Image
 
Discussion starter · #52 · (Edited)
I just tried riding up and down my street with a new pair of Ion Arcon Lt pads. I've never worn anything with a sleeve that is this long. Would it be normal for the upper portion of the sleeve to slide down until it basically is stopped by the pad itself? From the pad itself down to the calf portion everything still stays in place where it should be. I'm leary about keeping these and trying them on a real ride as I won't be able to return them at that point. The sleeve itself is very snug. Actually tight enough that the I first tried them on I though they might be too small. I think it might just be that the rubber gripper is just pretty useless. Does not feel grippy compared to many or leg warmers or shorts I own.
Nope, these don't work for you. The sleeve absolutely should not slide down as shown. Reading between lines (where most online mag reviews try not to say overly negative things about companies who give them stuff), I didn't get the best feeling ION Arcon LT, hence I didn't even bother trying them. Go ahead and return now.

Did you order the Sam Hill? The SAS-TEC insert they use will provide boat loads more protection than the RE XRO used in the Acron LT. don't care what the machine ratings say about Level 2. Using your non-damaged knee, compare them yourself by banging your knee into a hard object or two...

IF you aren't sure the uber-long sleeves are for you, and you want something that's going to protect your kneed cap, yet you can pedal freely in...try the IXS Flow. Not a lot of extra side coverage, but it should protect your patella nicely. This has been/was my primary pad for many many years, it's extremely comfortable. Another popular option could be the Leatt AirFlex...not the highest level of protection to be sure, but many people say they can pedal all day.

What type of riding/use will you be doing anyhow? trail riding? enduro with fireroad climbs? etc.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Ironic I suppose that I'm recommending the Sam Hills even though they didn't work for. The sleeve was just too dang long/high for my preference, and the SAS-TEC inserts curled into the side of my knee causing irritation. But lots of people love these and don't obviously don't have such issues. If they work for you, these could be the most pedal friendly pads that offer HIGH levels of protection. And the SAS-TEC in my opinion, ounce for ounce, the most protective inserts you can get...they start off a little stiff, but once warmed up, they soften like goo. With the SAS-TEC inserts (in the Sam Hills or my Ion K-Lites, I can absolutely smash my knee into the corner of my steel safe without causing any pain...it's quite impressive and I personally wouldn't have need for any more protection).

The X-Matter in the IXS Flows aren't quite as protective as the aforementioned SAS-TEC inserts...but I think you'd find that it's good/close enough.
 
Nope, these don't work for you. The sleeve absolutely should not slide down as shown. Reading between lines (where most online mag reviews try not to say overly negative things about companies who give them stuff), I didn't get the best feeling ION Arcon LT, hence I didn't even bother trying them. Go ahead and return now.

Did you order the Sam Hill? The SAS-TEC insert they use will provide boat loads more protection than the RE XRO used in the Acron LT. don't care what the machine ratings say about Level 2. Using your non-damaged knee, compare them yourself by banging your knee into a hard object or two...

IF you aren't sure the uber-long sleeves are for you, and you want something that's going to protect your kneed cap, yet you can pedal freely in...try the IXS Flow. Not a lot of extra side coverage, but it should protect your patella nicely. This has been/was my primary pad for many many years, it's extremely comfortable. Another popular option could be the Leatt AirFlex...not the highest level of protection to be sure, but many people say they can pedal all day.

What type of riding/use will you be doing anyhow? trail riding? enduro with fireroad climbs? etc.
This is for trail riding. However the trails I ride can be very rocky and with pointed sharp rocks, not rounded off. Obviously the whole fracture has me overly concerned right now. And just a quick update. I left these on while I was doing some wrenching on my bike out in the sun. Once I started sweating a bit, the gripper seemed to start working much better. They'll probably go back anyway since I ride through the winter. Not sure I want to deal with pads that slide down when wearing long pants over them.
 
Discussion starter · #55 · (Edited)
Thank you for all of this! Have you tried the Troy Lee with the new D3O Diablo pads? Curious to see how this new tech stacks up.
Yes, NOW I have tried with the Diablo L2...and I have some Diablo L1 coming. I'm not super impressed. Well, the material feels really nice (gel-like foam) and it will obviously allow some air flow through...and flexible. But I'm not impressed with the protection level. I have no idea how it's rated Diablo L2 is rated L2; I don't think the testing they do is very practical and my bones and pain threshold don't agree with their testing. Some of these new-gen pads (D30 Diablo, RHEON) are rated level 2, but don't feel nearly as protective as "foam" pads rated Level 2. I almost want to start a new thread on this very subject, but not sure I have the energy, lol. In sum,I'm not sure there is any free lunch to be had...if it's a 9 or 10mm thin insert, it's going to protect like 9 or 10mm...not like a robust 15mm thick D30 foam.

As for the Diablo 2, what's unique about this protective insert is that it performs MUCH better when warmed up. When cold, it's awful...and I'd say the D30 LP1 feels like it has more protection. Once it's warm, I suppose the protection level feels on par with the LP1 insert...but nowhere even close to the D30 LP2 insert. Given the degradation of performance when cold, I wouldn't want to use the Diablo on any pads I remove from my body for the climbs (as I often do).
 

Attachments

I don't get at all the sleeve type knee shin guards. They don't stay in place, doubtful protection and they are probably hot.

Hard plastic, like dainese, really good protection, open in the back so we'll ventilated. No sweating unless it's 100
 
As for the Diablo 2, what's unique about this protective insert is that it performs MUCH better when warmed up. When cold, it's awful...and I'd say the D30 LP1 feels like it has more protection. Once it's warm, I suppose the protection level feels on par with the LP1 insert...but nowhere even close to the D30 LP2 insert. Given the degradation of performance when cold, I wouldn't want to use the Diablo on any pads I remove from my body for the climbs (as I often do).
That's really interesting, I would never have thought that the rating can also vary depending on the temperatures.
So if you were to rate all the pads you've tried what would your ranking be?
 
Discussion starter · #58 · (Edited)
That's really interesting, I would never have thought that the rating can also vary depending on the temperatures.
So if you were to rate all the pads you've tried what would your ranking be?
Well this is a hard one. Something is going on whereby the likes of the Diablo L2 and RHEON Gravity/knee insert earn a Level 2 rating, yet they "feel" slightly less protective than the previous gen D30 LP1 protective insert; with light and medium strikes to my knee with a hammer, the LP1 beats marginally, and LP2 by a massive margin. But, I can only guess, under MASSIVE impact forces (look at the machine/procedure they use for testing), the softer viscoelastic foam used in the D30 LP1 and LP2 gets overwhelmed. But I don't think the test they use is appropriate at all for mountain bike application...it seems to me the impact force they apply in their testing is significantly higher anybody is going to encounter on a mountain bike.

That said, I really like the SAS-TEC and D30 viscoelastic protective inserts. Ounce for ounce, the SAS-TEC is easily the most protective of all the inserts (in my opinion); but it's a little funky...when cold, it's pretty darn stiff. And if it gets too hot, it becomes too soft and looses some of the protection properties. But for DH, this is my choice. For trail and most enduro, I really like the D30 LP1...for me, it's a good compromise of thickness/pedal-friendliness with protection. For general trail riding, I like the more breathable/flexible new gen pads from RHEON, Leatt, D30 Diablo and even RE ZRO (but I personally don't trust these for riding rocky gnar).

In sum, for me, it's previous gen D30 and SAS-TEC all day long! I suppose I'm okay with new gen inserts (RHEON, D30 Diablo, RE ZRO, etc.) for trail and aggressive trail, where slim profile, flexibility and breathability matter more.
 
I just received two pair of Ion K-Pact Knee Guards that were on sale at Jenson for $50. Level 2 SAS-Tec seems pretty heavy duty. Not the coolest of pads, but I'll deal with that at least until I know my knee is back to normal. As usual, I'm on the border between sizes. Both work riding on my street but the smaller are really pretty tight even without the straps.

Image
 
41 - 60 of 72 Posts