[NoahColorado]

Hi everyone, I'm back! Sorry, it was a hectic lead-up to Sea Otter and I was on the road for the last 10 days.

I have a product meeting to go to shortly, then I'll go through recent posts and answer all the questions I see.

Sea Otter was fun, but riding three full days in Santa Cruz was better.

 

[NoahColorado]

I want to add a round of applause for MRP putting numbers on the y-axis

I thought y'all would like that.

 

[SilentMTB]

Had my first ride in the bike park for the season with my 38/Lift v1 using the same setting from end of last season, and I must say that the fork/damper behaves as good as I remembered! although I'm not yet in my prime fitness.

 

[NoahColorado]

I'm pretty OK with being part of the Beta Test group, even late on where any feedback I have isn't in the product development cycle, I just helped clear out old stock of the V1.
I agree with most of those changes being fairly spot on - I think the choice to trade adjustment precision on rebound for width of adjustment range is absolutely the right direction for dealing with the broad spectrum of spring configurations and compression to rebound damping ratios that users need.
I suspect a lot of that compression side adjustment is probably just strategically positioning the edge clicks around places where the damper stack starts being geometrically odd causing non-linearities(but end result would be desirable, like the semi-locked out setting). I suspect there is probably more fluid dynamics wizardry on the rebound side to make that more linear in terms of response than is happening on the compression side... but I'm basing this off literally no information. The set screw is likely to be the bigger innovation here, as odd as that sounds.

I don't feel like my existing Lift is leaving a ton of performance on the table, but the LiftV2 makes for a product that should work for an even wider customer base. I'd argue that's the better innovation direction, because on the whole I don't think there was anybody unhappy with the performance improvement the original Lift offered (provided they could get to the right compression and rebound damping range and dial it in from there for their setup)

We developed Lift V1 over a long period of time (can't remember specifics now – but I think 2 years), so I wouldn't consider V1 owners as "beta testers." But, we have learned a lot now that hundreds are out in the field, and we've taken a lot of feedback on board with V2.

 

[NoahColorado]

And is it just a shim stack change or are there updates to ports and needles?
Can V1 folks just drop in new shims?

It's more than shims. There are changes to the needle and other parts in the compression assembly. We'll be selling complete compression assemblies as the upgrade.

 

[NoahColorado]

Lift V2 Updates
What we wanted to achieve:

• Broader compression adjustment range
• Better rebound range gradation
• New casting interface
• Better rebound knob assembly

Broader Compression Range
While the V1 had a perfectly useful range, the adjustment window was relatively small. I think this drove some people to different tunes when they really just wanted different low-speed compression effects.

With V2 we reworked the compression assembly – changing flow paths, using a completely new needle, reconfigured shim stacks, and a new nut. With those changes we have both a firmer max and lighter min setting. We didn't boost high-speed compression damping, but the closed end of the low-speed compression adjustment now is much firmer. One clock off that setting and the compression drops considerably, then evenly in small increments from there on. So, basically, it has 11 clicks of fine tuning and 1 click thats almost a threshold/lockout.

Better Rebound Range Gradation
The rebound adjustment range on V1 wasn't perfectly spaced out over the total range – there was quite a bit of stacking and consolidation as you got closer to "open."

With V2 it's much better, which should help you find your sweet spot more easily and also help folks who previous wanted an "in-betweener" click that wasn't there.

New Casting Interface
We saw a few breakages of the previous iteration, in some cases due to the large (15mm) tool interface. It's now much stronger, uses a 5mm hex key, and there's a washer in the assembly.

Better Rebound Knob Assembly
V1 used a small set screw so it was hard to know when it was tight enough. Also, how well it bit into the rebound control assembly kinda varied. So, sometimes they fell off.

V2 uses a bigger screw and whole new retention system. Plus, the hex is permanently mated to the knob.

Those are the updates. I should have part information and pricing on upgrade parts by the end of the week, but to answer the basic question: YES, you can upgrade V1 to V2 pretty easily.

 

[NoahColorado]

@NoahColorado are you able to share what v2 tunes were used to compare to the GripX2?

Also curious if an upgrade kit will be offered to convert v1 to v2 (if this is possible).

This is a V2 Green compared to Grip X2.

 

[NoahColorado]

They pretty much nailed my list of things I would change/adjust in a revision to this product. Honestly, it's pretty cool to see them leveraging what is more or less, a made to order product and persistently improving it.

The improved rebound adjuster design, along with the larger set screw is a great revision/response to the previous design. The granularity of the rebound tuning is also welcomed, I think smaller steps there are going to be a big gain in finding the goldilocks rebound settings.

The changes to the compression damping are interesting and I'm interested to know how they accomplished this. Having a firm/lockout like setting with the LSC adjuster closed and then simultaneously stating that the have more open lsc damping at full open is interesting.

Overall, cool to see that they are listening to the comments in this thread and incorporating some rolling updates based on that feedback and discussion.

"Having a firm/lockout like setting with the LSC adjuster closed and then simultaneously stating that the have more open lsc damping at full open is interesting."

Parabolic needle shaping and a new nut. I will try to expand on that more in the coming days with some images.

 

[NoahColorado]

Here's some links to Sea Otter coverage – mostly just me saying the above, more succinctly.

Loam Wolf
VitalMTB
AwesomeMTB

 

[NoahColorado]

And a note on upgrade paths...

Complete V2 compression and rebound assemblies will be available separately for those who want to upgrade. We've chosen this path since some people will find more value in one or the other, so we don't want to force anyone get both, or have to buy a whole a new damper. Both will retail for $159.95 (each) and should be up on the website in a few days – I'm working on the SKU assortment now.

A Lift V2 Compression Assembly Upgrade consists of everything that threads into the top of your damper tube. You'll reuse your knob, knob screw, and its o-ring.

Similarly, the Lift V2 Rebound Assembly Upgrade consists of everything you push into the bottom of your damper tube. You'll just reuse your seal head (the whole rebound knob assembly and casting interface hardware is totally new).

Since they're both full assemblies, install will be pretty straightforward, but we'll have instructions available shortly as well.

If you want us to do the full update for you, we can do that for $339.95. That includes both updates and full service.

 

[justin83]

damn, $320 to convert the damper i just bought at christmas time. that's disappointing.

 

[Mudguard]

damn, $320 to convert the damper i just bought at christmas time. that's disappointing.

But why do you need to convert it?

 

[SilentMTB]

damn, $320 to convert the damper i just bought at christmas time. that's disappointing.

Are you unhappy from the damper performance that you need to upgrade it?

 

[SilentMTB]

Better Rebound Range Gradation
The rebound adjustment range on V1 wasn't perfectly spaced out over the total range – there was quite a bit of stacking and consolidation as you got closer to "open."

With V2 it's much better, which should help you find your sweet spot more easily and also help folks who previous wanted an "in-betweener" click that wasn't there.

View attachment 2140982

Is it possible to have a graph like the one you posted above but with comparison between Lift v1 rebound vs v2 rebound?

 

[robj20]

I love the calling of it as an upgrade specifically for the two bits where it's mentioned V1 had issues.
Rebound knob falling off.
New Casting Interface due to breakages.
Presume both of those are covered under warranty?

The other bits definitely are nice upgrades, better adjustment range, in that regard we knew what V1 gave and were/are happy with that.

 

[justin83]

But why do you need to convert it?

I mean, it would be my choice to upgrade but here you go. They don’t appear to sell the updated rebound knob separately which is disappointing being that they know they have an issue with the knobs falling off. Noah even stated that above. Second, they changed how the rebound assembly interfaces with the fork casting which makes it sound like they know this is an issue with v1 as well. Also I find myself in between clicks on the rebound side and it sounds like they figured that out.
The other point on the compression is it would be nice to have close to a lockout for long climbs.

Overall I am happy with how the lift performs but it sounds like they squeezed out some better performance and fixed some known issues. Why would I not want that after I just bought the v1 4 months ago?

 

[justin83]

I love the calling of it as an upgrade specifically for the two bits where it's mentioned V1 had issues.
Rebound knob falling off.
New Casting Interface due to breakages.
Presume both of those are covered under warranty?

The other bits definitely are nice upgrades, better adjustment range, in that regard we knew what V1 gave and were/are happy with that.

Exactly. They should be offering at least these 2 parts as some kind of discounted upgrade for customers who have already purchased the v1. Compression side, fine. Sounds like they found some better performance and that's worth the price of admission I suppose. But for known failure points? That should be offered at a discount.

 

[Rock Climber]

Exactly. They should be offering at least these 2 parts as some kind of discounted upgrade for customers who have already purchased the v1. Compression side, fine. Sounds like they found some better performance and that's worth the price of admission I suppose. But for known failure points? That should be offered at a discount.

None of the other fork manufacturers offer a discount when they come out with a new product. Or the bike manufacturers

 

[NoahColorado]

I mean, it would be my choice to upgrade but here you go. They don’t appear to sell the updated rebound knob separately which is disappointing being that they know they have an issue with the knobs falling off. Noah even stated that above. Second, they changed how the rebound assembly interfaces with the fork casting which makes it sound like they know this is an issue with v1 as well. Also I find myself in between clicks on the rebound side and it sounds like they figured that out.
The other point on the compression is it would be nice to have close to a lockout for long climbs.

Overall I am happy with how the lift performs but it sounds like they squeezed out some better performance and fixed some known issues. Why would I not want that after I just bought the v1 4 months ago?

Yes, we fixed areas we knew we could improve – how else would we update the product?

Not to be flippant, but if you look at all the parts included in both upgrades, there's not much left to make a whole damper – literally the damper tube, knob and hardware, sealhead, and oil, so to price those parts much lower wouldn't make much sense. We aren't just pulling these costs and prices out of thin air.

Plus, we had dampers on sale for 20% off around the holidays and throughout March. A Lift V1 for $320 was and is a tremendous value. As is a complete, new V2 for $420.

So, I'm sorry you're disappointed in costs of these upgrades, especially since our goal was to not only make upgrading an option, but to also make it a relative value vs. buying a complete new damper.

 

[justin83]

None of the other fork manufacturers offer a discount when they come out with a new product. Or the bike manufacturers

when's the last time you saw fox release a new fork and 1 year later completely change it?