[tim709]

@ Salespunk

I’m currently running a SB150, and still love it. However, the new MT is very tempting. I’m wondering if you would be so kind as to lay out your thoughts on how the two bikes compare?

Thanks

 

[2supple]

Finished my first ride on the DHX2. Anyone notice a top-out feeling with the coil? Doesn't bother me on the trail but noticeable when bunny hopping/jumping. A light "clunk" from top-out when airborn after deep compression. Didn't do this with the X2.

Some takeaways:
-feels a little more plush/deep than the X2
-Air shock feels a little more efficient when pedalling out of the saddle
-Coil has good bottom out support on 5ft huck to flat
-IMO SC's spring recommendation is pretty accurate. I don't think I'll need to try another springrate.
-DHX2 sits a little higher in travel, extra bb clearance
-Feels consistent on long descents - local 2000 ft ride (straight up, straight down) the X2 can feel a little dead towards the bottom

Is the coil worth it over the X2? If you have $900 to burn and want to feel like a like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah

 

[cogswell23]

Are any of you running a Chris King headset for a length of time on a newer longer travel/Enduro bike?

I built my Mega with a CC110 from my last bike, but I've got a brand new King Matte Slate Dropset just sitting here.

I know for a while Kings had big issues on long travel bikes, coming loose, marring up the steer tubes from moving? Is that still an issue? I know(or think?) King changed their top cap set up to use a split compression ring awhile ago, did that solve all the issues?

That’s going way back in time. Like maybe a decade. They did indeed change their top cap to a split ring and the issue is solved. I run King headsets in both dropset and inset formations across several different bikes of various travel. You’ll be good to go.

 

[Salespunk]

@ Salespunk

I’m currently running a SB150, and still love it. However, the new MT is very tempting. I’m wondering if you would be so kind as to lay out your thoughts on how the two bikes compare?

Thanks

They are very different bikes, think Trophy Truck vs F1 car. The SB150 is incredibly responsive, but you feel everything that is going on beneath your wheels. It is really well damped, but there is never any questions about whether you have run over something. It is also probably the most nimble Enduro bike on the market right now.

The MT is the opposite end of the spectrum where you just charge straight ahead and ignore anything and everything in the trail. I just devours every obstacle that ends up in front of you. It is also much more calm since it is significantly slacker, but also pedals really well.

When deciding between the two you really have to think about what you want out of a bike. The SB is probably a better every day driver since it mutes things much less. If you live for big descents that are as rough as you can find then the MT is probably the better choice. I do find the details are much cleaner on the MT as well in terms of paint (my Yeti paint peeled off the chain stay in a huge chunk) and other things like cable ports etc.

Let me know anything else you would like to know specifically.

 

[tim709]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated!

Some of my local trails are pretty rough and steep. I used to ride some of these trails on a DH bike. In some places I feel the rear wheel get hung up on square edges. Occasionally the impacts are enough to make me worry about the tire and rim. It would be nice to have a little extra cush to take the edge off. It sounds like the MT might handle these situations better. I’m 6’ tall and 225lbs, I run a DH casing rear tire, with a cushcore insert. Finesse is not a word I would use to describe my riding style

We also have trails with a lot of technical climbing. Some long and sustained, some short and punchy. A couple of trails have a bunch of fun obstacles/features, like step ups, sprinkled throughout the climbs. How would you compare the two with regard to overall pedaling efficiency, and performance when climbing?

Thanks again.

 

[rscecil007]

That’s going way back in time. Like maybe a decade. They did indeed change their top cap to a split ring and the issue is solved. I run King headsets in both dropset and inset formations across several different bikes of various travel. You’ll be good to go.

I have been running them for a while across my Enduro/SB150 and now MT. No issues.

Ok, thanks for the info guys.

I just read my original post, I really mis-worded that, I must have typed it while on a conf call at work, haha.

What I intended to say was I thought there original King top cap, then some interim top cap fix King did that used a compression ring but used an o-ring to hold it in place or something? And that design caused the issues on the longer travel mtb frames?

I know the latest one has much better design and split ring, I've got one on my road bike. So I assumed the latest design would be fine on any mtb...

Sorry for the original confusion.

 

[Salespunk]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated!

Some of my local trails are pretty rough and steep. I used to ride some of these trails on a DH bike. In some places I feel the rear wheel get hung up on square edges. Occasionally the impacts are enough to make me worry about the tire and rim. It would be nice to have a little extra cush to take the edge off. It sounds like the MT might handle these situations better. I’m 6’ tall and 225lbs, I run a DH casing rear tire, with a cushcore insert. Finesse is not a word I would use to describe my riding style

We also have trails with a lot of technical climbing. Some long and sustained, some short and punchy. A couple of trails have a bunch of fun obstacles/features, like step ups, sprinkled throughout the climbs. How would you compare the two with regard to overall pedaling efficiency, and performance when climbing?

Thanks again.

The SB feels a little more efficient pedaling, but on rough climbs I would probably give it to the MT. It just rolls over everything allowing you to keep your cadence. I haven't done a lot of ledgy climbs yet, but I also haven't noticed any negative behavior out on the trails either. We have some pretty steep and technical climbs and the bike gets up them really well.

The descending traits of both bikes carry over into climbing as well. The SB feels like all of your power is being transferred straight to the ground which is an advantage for active climbers who are in and out of the saddle a lot. The MT is more of a sit and spin bike which is not a bad thing at all, it just motors over everything almost like a hovercraft where you don't even notice the stuff happening on the ground.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Hello more debt! Gave up on the C GX AXS build I had reserved and am building up an S-build with parts that I've been accumulating for a while.

View attachment 1991453

This is the way.

(unfortunately)

 

[tim709]

The SB feels a little more efficient pedaling, but on rough climbs I would probably give it to the MT. It just rolls over everything allowing you to keep your cadence. I haven't done a lot of ledgy climbs yet, but I also haven't noticed any negative behavior out on the trails either. We have some pretty steep and technical climbs and the bike gets up them really well.

The descending traits of both bikes carry over into climbing as well. The SB feels like all of your power is being transferred straight to the ground which is an advantage for active climbers who are in and out of the saddle a lot. The MT is more of a sit and spin bike which is not a bad thing at all, it just motors over everything almost like a hovercraft where you don't even notice the stuff happening on the ground.

Thanks again for the input, it’s very helpful.

It sounds like I’d like the MT.

I’ve been debating going for the new MT or holding out for the WeAreOne Arrival, with the 170mm link.

I’m thinking the MT would be a safe bet that I’d be happy with, but the Arrival has a lot going for it to. Having the option to swap links/shocks to change the bike makes it very tempting.

Thanks again

 

[gubbinalia]

I’ve been debating going for the new MT or holding out for the WeAreOne Arrival, with the 170mm link.

Slight thread sidetracking, but I've been in touch with WAO a bunch recently to see about frameset availability from them. It doesn't sound like they will have production-ready links (170mm or 130mm) until late 2022 and may not ship frames with anything but the 150mm stock link until next year. They've been flat-out trying to meet the promised production quotas for complete 150mm bikes going out and they also had to move machine shops after some sort of flooding occurred in Kamloops over the winter.

In other words, if you're stoked on getting a 170mm bike, get a Megatower! (Or, something else that's available now )

On a different point: I am super curious about what voodoo spell SC cast on the new MT to get it to pedal so well. A guy I've been riding with a bunch this summer has been riding big, smashy SCs since the original Nomads and says that the MTv2 is their best pedaling long-travel bike to date, by a wide margin. My sense is that the longer chainstays help (he's on an XL).

 

[2supple]

Slight thread sidetracking, but I've been in touch with WAO a bunch recently to see about frameset availability from them. It doesn't sound like they will have production-ready links (170mm or 130mm) until late 2022 and may not ship frames with anything but the 150mm stock link until next year. They've been flat-out trying to meet the promised production quotas for complete 150mm bikes going out and they also had to move machine shops after some sort of flooding occurred in Kamloops over the winter.

In other words, if you're stoked on getting a 170mm bike, get a Megatower! (Or, something else that's available now )

On a different point: I am super curious about what voodoo spell SC cast on the new MT to get it to pedal so well. A guy I've been riding with a bunch this summer has been riding big, smashy SCs since the original Nomads and says that the MTv2 is their best pedaling long-travel bike to date, by a wide margin. My sense is that the longer chainstays help (he's on an XL).

It’s true for the size large too. Even the coil shock pedals amazing. Idk what they’ve done but it’s magic. Once you dial in the LSC I basically can’t feel a difference between having the lockout switch on or off while spinning. Combined with the steep seat angle I just want to ride the bike all day. Don’t care that it weighs 36 lbs.

 

[Salespunk]

FYI I know of a new WA1 Arrival that is available now in a shop. PM me for details if interested.

Personally I will keep my MT.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Just a heads up re SC carbon bars that come with nearly all build kits. Torqued mine to the recommended 4nm max and was rewarded with a creaky mess after a single lap. Bars were slipping in the stem and shedding the outermost layer of carbon. Tightened to 5nm and all was well. That said, I’m not ready to risk the farm on these - switching back to deity speedways asap.

EDIT: Bars are fine. Turned out it was my stem bolts loosening up on my new i9 stem. Applied some loctite. Hopefully solved.

Bars are fine. Turned out it was “just” my stem bolts loosening up on my new i9 stem. Degreased and applied some loctite. Hopefully solved.

 

[PJJ205]

Been keeping my eye on this literally daily... If you have a large V2, Rockguardz just released their carbon protection; just bought mine.

Rockguardz has closed

After nine years of protecting bikes, Rockguardz has closed for business. If you have placed an order in the last few days, don't worry, all orders will be manufactured and dispatched before we close for Christmas. Thank you to all of our customers over the years. See you on the trails! If...

rockguardz.com

 

[jeremy3220]

On a different point: I am super curious about what voodoo spell SC cast on the new MT to get it to pedal so well. A guy I've been riding with a bunch this summer has been riding big, smashy SCs since the original Nomads and says that the MTv2 is their best pedaling long-travel bike to date, by a wide margin. My sense is that the longer chainstays help (he's on an XL).

My guess is the steeper STA. They lowered anti-squat and I haven't heard of anything else kinematics wise that would explain why it climbs more efficiently.

I've actually been thinking about why everyone says the MTV2 climbs better than the V1 (that I currently have).Only answer I can find so far has been STA. I've always ran my saddle pretty far forward but last week I physically slammed it all the way forward. I was kinda shocked how much of an improvement it made in both body position and reducing pedal bob. I was even able to reduce shock pressure and forget about the climb switch. That's probably what allowed SC to reduce anti-squat. If you're hanging off the back of the bike on climbs any little root the fork rolls over or any body movement is going to cause the shock to compress. Once the saddle is far enough forward that you don't feel like you have to balance your weight fore and aft you don't have to rely on chain tension (anti-squat) as much.

 

[2supple]

My guess is the steeper STA. They lowered anti-squat and I haven't heard of anything else kinematics wise that would explain why it climbs more efficiently.

I've actually been thinking about why everyone says the MTV2 climbs better than the V1 (that I currently have).Only answer I can find so far has been STA. I've always ran my saddle pretty far forward but last week I physically slammed it all the way forward. I was kinda shocked how much of an improvement it made in both body position and reducing pedal bob. I was even able to reduce shock pressure and forget about the climb switch. That's probably what allowed SC to reduce anti-squat. If you're hanging off the back of the bike on climbs any little root the fork rolls over or any body movement is going to cause the shock to compress. Once the saddle is far enough forward that you don't feel like you have to balance your weight fore and aft you don't have to rely on chain tension (anti-squat) as much.

One other thing that could affect it are the new shock tunes as well

 

[gubbinalia]

My guess is the steeper STA. They lowered anti-squat and I haven't heard of anything else kinematics wise that would explain why it climbs more efficiently.

I've actually been thinking about why everyone says the MTV2 climbs better than the V1 (that I currently have).Only answer I can find so far has been STA. I've always ran my saddle pretty far forward but last week I physically slammed it all the way forward. I was kinda shocked how much of an improvement it made in both body position and reducing pedal bob. I was even able to reduce shock pressure and forget about the climb switch. That's probably what allowed SC to reduce anti-squat. If you're hanging off the back of the bike on climbs any little root the fork rolls over or any body movement is going to cause the shock to compress. Once the saddle is far enough forward that you don't feel like you have to balance your weight fore and aft you don't have to rely on chain tension (anti-squat) as much.

The seat angle seems like it helps quite a bit, especially for us taller fellas. But I think kinematics play a huge role as well. My buddy has the same SuperDeluxe with a MegNeg that he had on the v1 on his v2, and while he's been meaning to get it re-tuned for the new bike, he says it's working well and he's almost never using the lockout now. That's just one person's experience, but several folks on this thread seem to agree.

I haven't rode any of the long-travel Santa Cruzes but from the bikes I've been on recently, the Transition Spire holds traction on steeps quite a bit better than the Sentinel because the chainstays on the XL are >10mm longer. Didn't think that length would make such a difference, but it's noticeable when punching up steep or loose stuff. Not to mention the advantages in descending balance.

 

[jeremy3220]

The seat angle seems like it helps quite a bit, especially for us taller fellas. But I think kinematics play a huge role as well.

But what kinematic change?

Also the MTV1 can run 435 or 445mm chainstays.

 

[jeremy3220]

One other thing that could affect it are the new shock tunes as well

How so?

 

[2supple]

How so?

They have entirely new tunes for this bike. I don't know what the differences are but I wouldn't rule it out as something that could make it feel like it pedals better against the older version. IMO Shock tunes can have an impact on pedal efficiency. Not saying it's this, just wouldn't rule it out, especially if there's nothing else that could explain it in the kinematics.