[richj8990]

If you can't break a spoke, you can't have fun...

What if you break a rear derailleur on a spoke, is that supposed to be fun?

 

[richj8990]

I was chatting with some friends about this. I told him my hypothesis about wide rims was more about people not being good enough to lean the bike over into the side knobs. So the wider wheels help get the side knobs into an easier position to reach, requiring less lean angle. They all agreed that it might be true. One is also a strong descender.

I'm racing XC with 2.35 on my 21mm wheels. My Enduro has a 2.6 on a 29mm wheel.

Actually from the pictures I've seen of the tires that are less than 1.7x tire to rim it's the opposite; the side knobs are gone and pointed up. I wish there was a thread dedicated to all of the problems with too narrow of a rim, and then too wide of a rim, or a poll, and then you could really see the real-world difference. I rarely read anyone complaining that their tire is too wide for the rim (in fact I can't remember ever reading that!!!), but there are several complaints on here about rims being too wide. Yes, there is some floppiness with a larger ratio like 3x tire to rim, but some people call that cushion. Cushion can be nice especially on a hardtail. It doesn't mean the tire is going to fall off or slide off the trail.

Conversely, I've seen many posts and some pictures with a wide rim where the tire's side knobs are gone, they are pointing up instead of out, the knobs are all crowded together, the rider says rolling resistance is annoyingly high, the tire wears out a lot faster, etc. It just does not look right. As for the wider tire on a standard rim, it's not really a bulb shape. It's more like an ice cream cone or hot air balloon shape; the sidewalls slowly and firmly grow out to the side knobs in a cone shape. It's not really as floppy as you may think if the tire is a heavy 2 lbs or so and the sidewalls are thick.

There is absolutely nothing to worry about, this is all rim manufacturer hype. Now if you actually tried a wider tire on a narrow rim and it sucked, please reply with exactly how it sucked, how riding was affected, so people can make a practical case for wider rims, instead of just taking everything as gospel from the for-profit bike industry. If the bike industry thinks you will believe something, they will simply add that to their sales pitch, whether it's true or not. The argument "The manufacturer recommends blah blah blah" is not an argument. We need to see real feedback from people trying vastly different ratios, 1.5x to 3.5x. If someone just tried 1.7x and never anything else, they would not know the difference. It may work fine to them but it's a different tire and rim than what they had before so there is no real experiment or conclusion.

 

[fillaroida]

Actually from the pictures I've seen of the tires that are less than 1.7x tire to rim it's the opposite; the side knobs are gone and pointed up. I wish there was a thread dedicated to all of the problems with too narrow of a rim, and then too wide of a rim, or a poll, and then you could really see the real-world difference. I rarely read anyone complaining that their tire is too wide for the rim (in fact I can't remember ever reading that!!!), but there are several complaints on here about rims being too wide. Yes, there is some floppiness with a larger ratio like 3x tire to rim, but some people call that cushion. Cushion can be nice especially on a hardtail. It doesn't mean the tire is going to fall off or slide off the trail.

Conversely, I've seen many posts and some pictures with a wide rim where the tire's side knobs are gone, they are pointing up instead of out, the knobs are all crowded together, the rider says rolling resistance is annoyingly high, the tire wears out a lot faster, etc. It just does not look right. As for the wider tire on a standard rim, it's not really a bulb shape. It's more like an ice cream cone or hot air balloon shape; the sidewalls slowly and firmly grow out to the side knobs in a cone shape. It's not really as floppy as you may think if the tire is a heavy 2 lbs or so and the sidewalls are thick.

There is absolutely nothing to worry about, this is all rim manufacturer hype. Now if you actually tried a wider tire on a narrow rim and it sucked, please reply with exactly how it sucked, how riding was affected, so people can make a practical case for wider rims, instead of just taking everything as gospel from the for-profit bike industry. If the bike industry thinks you will believe something, they will simply add that to their sales pitch, whether it's true or not. The argument "The manufacturer recommends blah blah blah" is not an argument. We need to see real feedback from people trying vastly different ratios, 1.5x to 3.5x. If someone just tried 1.7x and never anything else, they would not know the difference. It may work fine to them but it's a different tire and rim than what they had before so there is no real experiment or conclusion.

I'm a beginner

Why should anyone lend even a teensy-tiny amount of credibility to any of your claims?

 

[Zowie]

What if you break a rear derailleur on a spoke, is that supposed to be fun?

Doesn't matter what I think.
Do you think it sounds like fun?

 

[richj8990]

Doesn't matter what I think.
Do you think it sounds like fun?

I've done it. I dunno what happened but it cracked the frame because it was a cheap bike that didn't have a derailleur hanger. Parked it next to a trash bin and let the homeless have at it.

 

[richj8990]

I was chatting with some friends about this. I told him my hypothesis about wide rims was more about people not being good enough to lean the bike over into the side knobs. So the wider wheels help get the side knobs into an easier position to reach, requiring less lean angle. They all agreed that it might be true. One is also a strong descender.

I'm racing XC with 2.35 on my 21mm wheels. My Enduro has a 2.6 on a 29mm wheel.

One thing I forgot to mention, a lot of reviewers say that wider tires really help beginners more than anyone else. If the converse is true, then pros can get away with a more skinny tire because of their skill and experience level. Whether that extrapolates over to rims or not, I dunno but it very well could.

 

[mountainbiker24]

Which Rockshox forks are 3 times as much as the comparable competitors? Fox isn't cheaper. Manitou is a bit cheaper if you look for good deals, but nowhere near 3 times cheaper. XFusion? Ohlins? DVO? If you're referring to Suntour or one of those Chinese brands, you're comparing apples to oranges, or at best red delicious apples to my daughter's plastic toy apples.

 

[JACKL]

One thing I forgot to mention, a lot of reviewers say that wider tires really help beginners more than anyone else. If the converse is true, then pros can get away with a more skinny tire because of their skill and experience level. Whether that extrapolates over to rims or not, I dunno but it very well could.

Don't listen to a lot of reviewers.

 

[fillaroida]

One thing I forgot to mention, a lot of reviewers say that wider tires really help beginners more than anyone else. If the converse is true, then pros can get away with a more skinny tire because of their skill and experience level. Whether that extrapolates over to rims or not, I dunno but it very well could.

You are correct.

You dont know.

But at least your're very consistently ignorant!

 

[Zowie]

I've done it. I dunno what happened but it cracked the frame because it was a cheap bike that didn't have a derailleur hanger. Parked it next to a trash bin and let the homeless have at it.

IMHO it seems like more fun to fold a wheel, but I take what I can get.

 

[richj8990]

You are correct.

You dont know.

But at least your're very consistently ignorant!

Then please enlighten us on any facts that wider rims truly help + tires in all riding situations for all riders. Please, be my guest, post links to this factual, proven information. Or can you?

 

[richj8990]

Why should anyone lend even a teensy-tiny amount of credibility to any of your claims?

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/08/12/tech-story-match-bicycle-tire-width-rim-width-best-results/

Because I post factual information, not just unconstructive criticism. And if my opinions are wrong, I change them, unlike arrogant elitists. I asked for real feedback and I get sniping with zero description of experience on + rims. It's quite easy to flame someone on here, it's another matter to have the intelligence and courtesy to actually answer the posted question.

 

[alexbn921]

Tire and rim need to work together as a system. If a tire was designed for a 17mm rim and you but it on a 30mm rim it will probability suck. With that said 2.1-2.35 are much better on 25 then 17 rims. 25-30 is a sweet spot and 35+ needs a specific design or larger tire. I hope that 30-35 becomes the standard for all mountain bike tires from 2.2 to 2.6 it gives a good support and volume ratio without to much added weight.
LOL wider tires are only for newbs. Same thing for wide bars and dropper posts. I heard a rumor that all riders should start on full ridged too.

 

[aerius]

Slightly OS, but what is the consensus on tire clearance from chain stays? I know depends on conditions, but for starters, let say 80% dry 20% muddy. Or another way answering, clearance on dry vs clearance on mud? Some assumptions 1) stiff wheels (carbon rims) 2) medium knobs (not DH) 3) Carbon frame.

Depends on how much you weigh, how stiff your frame is, how much power you can put down, and how hard you corner. I like to have at least 1/4", preferably closer to 1/2". It's not just rims that can get knocked out of true, tires can as well. If you do enough stupid stuff on your bike, you can put sizable wobbles into the tire casing and if that happens you'll want some extra clearance on the frame. Frames also flex under load so that needs to be taken into account as well.

 

[Zowie]

I heard a rumor that all riders should start on full ridged too.

It's way more fun to put 'very experienced' mountain bikers on rigids... :lol:

 

[HacksawReynolds]

With that said 2.1-2.35 are much better on 25 then 17 rims. 25-30 is a sweet spot.

I disagree.

If I end up going to 2.6 up front I'll run a 25 rim instead of my 21 for it.

 

[HacksawReynolds]

It's way more fun to put 'very experienced' mountain bikers on rigids... :lol:

ALL new riders young and old should ride full rigid and steer clear of silly brown sidewalk "flow" trails for at least 5 years before pu$$y-ing up to the latest technology and metrosexual trail designs.

 

[fillaroida]

Because I post factual information, not just unconstructive criticism. And if my opinions are wrong, I change them, unlike arrogant elitists.

Yo! Newb! You're using "factual" and "opinions" interchangeably. FYI, they are not synonyms.

Let's look at some of the "factual information" that you have posted:

"Yes, there is some floppiness with a larger ratio like 3x tire to rim, but some people call that cushion. Cushion can be nice especially on a hardtail. It doesn't mean the tire is going to fall off or slide off the trail."

This is false.

Large tires on narrow rims, in full light bulb mode, can be less fun because square tread profile becomes very rounded which reduces grip and leads to casing flop.

After your frantic Googling, did you even read the article that you linked?

"Conversely, if the tire is too wide for a given rim, you get more tire roll due to the larger casing size and higher aspect ratio of the tire, which together create more leverage on the tire allowing the casing to collapse and roll over the rim during hard cornering"​

"As for the wider tire on a standard rim, it's not really a bulb shape. It's more like an ice cream cone or hot air balloon shape; the sidewalls slowly and firmly grow out to the side knobs in a cone shape. It's not really as floppy as you may think if the tire is a heavy 2 lbs or so and the sidewalls are thick."

Again, this is false but does confirm that you are a beginner with practically zero riding experience on different rim and tire combos.

"There is absolutely nothing to worry about, this is all rim manufacturer hype."

Again, this is false. What do you hope to accomplish by posting this nonsense?

"If the converse is true, then pros can get away with a more skinny tire because of their skill and experience level. Whether that extrapolates over to rims or not, I dunno but it very well could."

This is truly the funniest bit of nonsense that you posted. Due to your lack of experience, it's no wonder you can't understand how stupid that two sentence combination is.

"Then please enlighten us on any facts that wider rims truly help + tires in all riding situations for all riders."

This is a straw man (Google it). I never made that claim.

Get out there and ride some different setups - it might help with your confusion!

 

[JACKL]

Car tires have a published recommended rim width range. I think it would be nice if MTB tires did too (a few do). I don't think it is just the tire size, but the tire design as well.

Stans has a guide on their website. They tend to go narrower on the rim width than what is considered the norm.

Anyway, here are a few I've tried:

Hans Dampfs 2.35s on i17 rims - very unstable on cornering.
Hans Dampfs 2.35s on i25.5 rims - whole new tire, could be drifted without dropping you.
Hans Dampfs 2.35s on i35 rims - Even more stable on corners. However IMO too stable at times, there was no sideways compliance, so it rode harder when leaned over on bumpy corners. Pressures could not be dropped further, because rim strikes were still the limiting factor. Also, sidewalls were exposed and wore out before the tread did. Rims were getting scraped too.

Dirt Wizard 3.0 60tpi on i35s - IMO the rim width was perfect for this tire. Due to the very heavy casing, there was no floppiness when leaning the bike over. Sidewalls and rim were very protected of course.

Nobby Nic 2.6 on i35s - Feels about right to me in this case as well. The casing is light, so there is a touch of squirm when leaned over at lower pressures, but not in a negative way. Sidewall wear is a moderate problem though.

 

[Zowie]

"If the converse is true, then pros can get away with a more skinny tire because of their skill and experience level. Whether that extrapolates over to rims or not, I dunno but it very well could."

This is truly the funniest bit of nonsense that you posted. Due to your lack of experience, it's no wonder you can't understand how stupid that two sentence combination is.

You can't see the forest for the trees anymore.