I've tried searching but not much comes up most threads are from a few years ago . also trying to decide if I should treat my mtb helmet as i do my motorcycle helmet replace after a few years ?
I recently picked up 2 different GIro helmets one is mips the other is non, somewhat confused on the benefits . the non mips seems to fit on my head closer (head is snug to the top inner helmet ) while the mips seems to fit and sit higher on my head both are universal fit . Doesn't seem to be much info out there on the interwebs about mtb helmets . A few concerns i have , the biggest is it feels like the mips is sitting on top of my head and the non coverers my head completely if that makes sense ?

1 will the mips flow air as well as the non , i sweat like a pig so I'm not sure how that will work , the plastic shield seems as if it will block flow.
2 my current helmet is a basic giro non mips from 2010 feel like it might be time to replace ?
3 any recommendations for a good helmet that flows air well and minimizes sweat dripping down into your eye's , not sure if the new ones are prone to dumping a bunch of sweat when its moved for whatever reason ex scratching an ich or something .
4 is the mips helmets worth the extra coin ?
thanks

MIPS liners do change the fit of a number of helmets. It's another layer in there, so it makes sense. Now, if you're comparing two totally different models, and a MIPS liner is only one of a number of differences, then that will also explain some of the differences in fit. Not all helmets fit the same. More roadie-ish helmets do tend to sit higher on your head. Helmets with a more mtb focus tend to cover more sides and back. This is especially true for helmets with a chin bar (or a removable/optional chin bar). Crashes tend to differ somewhat between casual riding, serious road, and serious mtb use. So again it makes sense that helmets would differ for those primary uses.

You don't say which helmets you bought, so you leave a lot of guessing. If they're one-size helmets, they're less expensive ones, which means they're probably not too specialized in function.

MIPS can affect airflow through the helmet. Especially with a cheaper helmet (which doesn't have the best airflow to begin with). With good vent design of a helmet, a MIPS helmet can still have good airflow. But you're going to pay for it.

Aside from absolutely replacing it after a crash, it's a good time to replace your helmet any time it starts looking worn or faded. After 13yrs, I bet yours looks worn and faded. Maybe dinged up from storage/transport.

Some are better for ventilation and sweat than others. Knowing your climate will help, because if you're in a humid, sweaty climate, it probably won't matter what helmet you get, you'll be better off looking for a headband or skullcap to absorb or deflect the sweat so it doesn't get in your eyes. I had a Bell Super 2 for awhile, and it was terrible for dumping sweat down my forehead. I have a Troy Lee Designs A2 now and don't have that problem anymore. I find that the TLD vents very well, also. Both helmets had MIPS.

IME, any efforts to make helmets better are worth it. It's really hard to say if any of those efforts are actually making a difference with concussions or anything else. But as long as they're not less safe, I think it's worth spending the money.

So far, the best independent testing we have is happening at Virginia Tech. Looking at their results, you can see that a MIPS liner isn't the only thing that can get a good result. There's a lot that goes into good helmet design.

Bicycle Helmet Ratings (vt.edu)

 

Get mips if you crash often. Otherwise if you are not tapping or hitting your head at all when you have your "typical" crashes, just get the regular.

 

But if you have a non-MIPS hard hat and rarely have crashed, if you are hurtling out of control or slip on a wet root and feel gravity coming to get you, be sure to run down to the LBS and get a MIPS before impact. Hurry though. Easier to get a new helmet than a new head 😃

 

My baseline assumption is that a brain injury is pretty traumatic. If you are going to spend all of the money to get a decent helmet, there is no reason to not go for MIPS. It is extra protection. You'll spend way more on other things for your bike that get you no additional value. MIPS is a cheap insurance to help ensure that you get to ride tomorrow, and beyond.

 

Per Virginia Tech ratings, the #1 MTB helmet (and #2 overall) for safety is Specialized Tactic 4. Currently Specialized has it on sale for $89. Specialized Tactic

 

If your helmet is 13 years old it's way past time to replace it. UV rays, heat, and sweat all break down the padding over time so it is less effective. MIPS allows the liner to slip a bit in the event of a crash which has the effect of lengthening the crash impulse - spreading out the crash force over time so brain movement inside the skull is minimized. MIPS can't completely prevent serious head trauma but it does make it less likely. IMO, it's cheap insurance against the chance of a potentially devastating head injury.

 

If your helmet is 13 years old it's way past time to replace it. UV rays, heat, and sweat all break down the padding over time so it is less effective.

Here in CO, the UV rays can be pretty intense if you spend a lot of time outside. A health and safety colleague actually advised me to replace my helmet every 2-4 years purely due to UV degradation of the plastic. Apparently my helmet's plastic is pretty similar to some of the lightweight PPE options for construction/engineering staff and their gear is replaced mandatorily every 2 yrs.

MIPS allows the liner to slip a bit in the event of a crash which has the effect of lengthening the crash impulse - spreading out the crash force over time so brain movement inside the skull is minimized.

I've also read that that slippage allowed by the MIPs can make a big difference in crashes where the impact would typically cause a sudden twisting to the head, greatly increasing the potential for neck injury. That slippage can delay or completely prevent that twisting action, depending on the angle of impact.

 

From what I’ve heard is that the foam on any eps foam helmet will break down after about 5-6 years and looses most of its effectiveness regardless of use. That being said sun and weather exposure can accelerate that process

 

Helmet manufacturers and retailers used to recommend replacing the helmet every 5 years (the date of manufacture should be on a sticker inside.). The last few years they have arbitrarily changed that to every 4 years then every 3 years. What next, every year? Maybe you could just lease one, pay every month, then get a “free” replacement if you crash or every year. Bottomless lease, you just keep paying. That said, if you ride a few times a week and sweat or goop it up, or if it’s sun quite a bit, I would get a new one every three years. Otherwise every four or five years. If you ride near daily, I would have two helmets so you can rinse the insides out and let it dry on the off day. I’ve seen helmets so dirty in there you’d die from infection if you ever cut your head in a crash.

 

I'm not finding it at the moment but recall a test showing the schemas that include MIPS are better than helmets without. The point was my MIPS helmet used for road broken and finding a better fit with Trek's corrugated plastic design.

The few MIPS helmets I've had have all been comfy and fine. This past winter I had a skiing and tree incident with a MIPS helmet where there was no doubt some twisting that occurred. I'll keep getting the newer types if MIPS or something like that Bongrager I got.

 

Get the most protection you can. Mips might only help a little bit in a certain type of crash. That little bit might make all the difference.

 

…

 

... no consistent temperature. Foam doesn’t act well to that. ...

Expanded foams are used as insulation on buildings. As an insulator, they handle temperature changes really well, up to about 160F. Unless you're storing your helmet in a black roofed non-insulated attic in the summer you've got little to worry about there.

From what I’ve heard is that the foam on any eps foam helmet will break down after about 5-6 years and looses most of its effectiveness regardless of use. That being said sun and weather exposure can accelerate that process

It is incredibly stable - a Norwegian study concluded that when used as insulation under concrete foundations that it's lifespan would exceed 100 years. It won't break down due to moisture, so a little sweat is no issue.

Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) foam is also highly resistant to UV damage. Initial damage will be discoloration. Eventually it will start to degrade at the surface, becoming 'chalky', but the inner structure will remain intact. Since the EPS in a helmet is mostly covered by a polypropylene or polycarbonate skin, UV isn't really an issue for the EPS foam.

Troy Lee Designs (and probably others too) are using EPS in conjunction with Expanded Polypropylene (EPP) foam to achieve a multi-density protection against impacts. EPP has similar properties to EPS with respect to UV resistance.

Polycarbonate is highly resistant to UV. It is used as a roofing material for greenhouses.

Here in CO, the UV rays can be pretty intense if you spend a lot of time outside. A health and safety colleague actually advised me to replace my helmet every 2-4 years purely due to UV degradation of the plastic. Apparently my helmet's plastic is pretty similar to some of the lightweight PPE options for construction/engineering staff and their gear is replaced mandatorily every 2 yrs.

Construction helmets probably see a lot more sunlight hours than the average bicycle helmet, and liability lawsuits can cost a lot more than a few helmets every couple of years. A challenge is that every organizational layer can add its own factor of safety against that. If an engineer says it's good for 15 years, the company lawyer says to make it 10. We'll never see a lawsuit and sell more helmets. An organization with oversight for safety might look at that and add their own factor because they wouldn't want to be sued either. So they tell their members 5. Ugh.
The better organizations defer to manufacturer recommendations.

A similar situation exists for climbing equipment. Petzl specify 10 years from date of manufacture for their climbing helmets and harnesses (and helpfully date-label them), yet some organizations (e.g. Outward Bound) then recommend replacing every 3-5 years.

The US Consumer Product Safety Commission recommends replacing bicycle helmets every 5 to 10 years, unless a manufacturer recommends otherwise. Unfortunately because there is no legal requirement that a piece of safety equipment must be sold fit-for-purpose for at least X years, that manufacturer recommendation guideline is ripe for abuse by manufacturers to drum up further sales.

This isn't advice - because I'd be crazy to put myself on that liability hook , but this is what I do, for my own protection. I look at the CPSC guidelines. I look at the manufacturer recommendations. I inspect my helmet. If its cracked, I replace. If it's starting to discolor, I replace. The reality is that I usually want to buy an upgrade long before I need to worry about UV!

 

Minimal difference in airflow between mips or not. Definitely replace a 13 year old helmet. Very few helmets have any sweat control, some people do head bands with sweat control built in under their helmet. Is mips worth it? For a glancing blow yes it’s advantageous to have a helmet that will rotate a bit on your head, for full on head slams maybe not. The helmet shell will be bigger so you are more likely to bonk it on stuff overhead, but you get used to that pretty quick. The average aggressive rider will probably hit the helmet hard enough to replace it before it’s past its shelf life.

 

1. I sweat like a pig and the only time I notice airflow is when cruising along or down at 10mph or more. So wether or not it has better airflow on a climb doesn’t make a difference to me. I am going to sweat, a lot.
2. Time to replace.
3. Smith forefront 2 or whatever number they are at now. For me it is the most comfortable. Has a built in glasses holder and padding that kind of doesn’t let sweat drip straight down in my eyes. Yes they are expensive but/and you can’t put a price on your head and if you choose a color that is not selling well you can typically find them on sale.
4. I have landed on my head three times with different MIPS helmets and each time I recall when my head made impact thinking, “That hurt a lot less than I expected it to, ooh I can feel the MIPS doing the slidy thing, this is nice.” Two of those times likely would have resulted in a more major concussion without the MIPS. One of those times the speed and impact was such that a concussion was guaranteed but/and I still felt like it was less brutal than it would have been with a regular old foam lid. MIPS is worth it.

 

What about alternative technologies like Leatt's 360 Turbine system?

 

Thanks for all the replies, looks like I’ll have to hit my lbs and try on some new helmets…. I’m sure most know the drill new bike = new everything and then some … Helmets are an important part of biking , surprised there’s not more info out there …

 

Ok I'll rock the MIPS boat and ask to be publicly ridiculed.

I prefer non-MIPS Kali helmets. Very comfy (to me) and those guys take protection very seriously over there. I like their take on low impact and high impact forces. Besides I have MIPS built in...my hair.

MIPS is a layer of protection. How much real-world protection is debatable. There are other companies in addition to Kali working to mitigate forces with their own spin on things (pun intended), Bontrager (Wavecell) for example.

Does one stand tall vs. the others? IDK but I do love my Kali helmets and if I crash one they want it sent to them so they can use it to collect real-world crash data in an effort to evaluate and improve their products. Oh yeah, they'll send me a free replacement for helping them out.

 

If you have hair of sufficient length, it will certainly be a functional slip interface between your skull and the helmet/ground interface. Perhaps the MIPS improves upon this with a second slip interface. My intuition says that the benefit is negligible with 2 vs 1 slip interfaces with respect to your brain rotating inside your skull on impact. This is what MIPS is designed to mitigate.

I don't recall ever seeing pictures of a test rig with a head form with hair on it so perhaps that is not accounted for in testing.

I use a POC Tectal spin ( MIPS alternative?), have never hit my head wearing that helmet.

With regard to material degradation assuming the manufacturers are using UV stabilizers in the polymers the materials should not degrade due to UV exposure with intermittent exposure typical of most rider's use of the products even over 4-5 years in a high UV environment. If you leave your helmet outside and it is nuked by the sun every day, then obviously it will degrade faster.

I would wager that 10-year-old UV stabilized EPS foam is still quite effective at energy dissipation from an impact, there are other considerations such as oleic acids present in human sweat that can degrade polymers and this when acting as a solvent will degrade the polymers mechanical properties. Many sunscreens and personal care products applied to the skin also contain chemicals that will degrade polymers. I would expect to see this type of exposure the primary reason for material degradation.

Of course, if presented with empirical data showing otherwise, I am open to reviewing it.

 

As someone with a concussion right now, get the MIPS

 

Dude I'm sorry you have a concussion, for real. And I'm not trolling one bit.

But I got to ask how do you think mips would have mitigated the concussion? I'm not saying it could not have helped. It's largely billed to reduce rotational forces on your head and neck, not blunt force trauma like your brain hitting the inside of your skull due to your head coming to a quick stop. Perhaps if your helmet could have rotated several degrees it might have deflected some of the energy. I guess it just depends on how one's head actually hits a hard surface. Full on straight into a brick wall mips will do nothing, obviously. Crashing on a mountain bike is a much more dynamic experience though.

Since you currently are dealing with first-hand experience with a bad crash I'm interested in your perspective.

Do you think you would be better off if your helmet was able to deflect some of the rotational force? I realize it's a subjective answer but I am curious as your thoughts.

Thks and hope you're feeling better soon!