[Carl Mega]

I guess Pro’s are a problem 🤣🤣🤣

Actually they sometimes are. But luckily they are few and far between and most have learned something along the way to all that speed potential. Now, with eBikes, anyone can achieve that speed - and likely to apply it on (once) pedestrian friendly flat trails and bidirectional uphills. Avg speed doesn't consider where the speed is being applied. This is basic: everyone being able achieve said speeds is a different problem than .001% of elites.

but keep on, keeping on with pretending they are the same.

A useful analog outside of mtb might be the rise of the SxS. Yes, the speeds they achieve were attainable by other OHVs. But those OHVs required some dedication to the craft and didn't really have the same foot print. But SxS are so approachable for novice, now it's a sh1tshow in many places where they are found in any density. Tons of speed happy novice users who are insulated from their conduct and impatient with mixed use slower/opposite traffic. Most don't apply restraint in respect to their impact on others. It hasn't been good.

 

[Gutch]

Actually they sometimes are. But luckily they are few and far between and most have learned something along the way to all that speed potential. Now, with eBikes, anyone can achieve that speed - and likely to apply it on (once) pedestrian friendly flat trails and bidirectional uphills. Avg speed doesn't consider where the speed is being applied. This is basic: everyone being able achieve said speeds is a different problem than .001% of elites.

but keep on, keeping on with pretending they are the same.

A useful analog outside of mtb might be the rise of the SxS. Yes, the speeds they achieve were attainable by other OHVs. But those OHVs required some dedication to the craft and didn't really have the same foot print. But SxS are so approachable for novice, now it's a sh1tshow in many places where they are found in any density. Tons of speed happy novice users who are insulated from their conduct and impatient with mixed use slower/opposite traffic. Most don't apply restraint in respect to their impact on others. It hasn't been good.

“Anyone” can achieve that speed on singletrack? Even a newb? My wife doesn’t ride, I’ll put her on my Levo and in Turbo mode and let her rip singletrack. Won’t happen, can’t, no skills. She would be a noob, no? The real problem is that y’all can’t accept change. Or you can’t accept that fellow mtbrs have changed! Live with an ebike for a year or two and see how “real life” scenario’s unfold.

 

[Tama John]

Pro level pounce!

 

[Carl Mega]

“Anyone” can achieve that speed on singletrack? Even a newb? My wife doesn’t ride, I’ll put her on my Levo and in Turbo mode and let her rip singletrack. Won’t happen, can’t, no skills. She would be a noob, no? The real problem is that y’all can’t accept change. Or you can’t accept that fellow mtbrs have changed! Live with an ebike for a year or two and see how “real life” scenario’s unfold.

Why do you guys always try to minimize the scenario? We've already established single track isn't the conflict point. How about 15 teen ager newbs on modded out eBikes at a multi-use pedestrian heavy trail? Anyone can ride an ebike fast on approachable terrain. Anyone.

I have so many hours on actual motorized per year (100 days) and (200 days on mtb) - how much more experience do I need to have cred?

Back on point: do you think it'd be a noteworthy impact change if every mtb now went pro speed? I think it would.

I can accept change no problem. My goal is to soft land changes for minimum impact and maximum benefit. You all are belly aching that I don't think carte blanche access is good, smart policy. Agreeing that they are suitable on most trails isn't enough - the mere thought that we'd defer to land managers, staff and community is threatening.... why?

 

[Gutch]

Why do you guys always try to minimize the scenario? We've already established single track isn't the conflict point. How about 15 teen ager newbs on modded out eBikes at a multi-use pedestrian heavy trail? Anyone can ride an ebike fast on approachable terrain. Anyone.

I have so many hours on actual motorized per year (100 days) and (200 days on mtb) - how much more experience do I need to have cred?

Back on point: do you think it'd be a noteworthy impact change if every mtb now went pro speed? I think it would.

I can accept change no problem. My goal is to soft land changes for minimum impact and maximum benefit. You all are belly aching that I don't think carte blanche access is good, smart policy. Agreeing that they are suitable on most trails isn't enough - the mere thought that we'd defer to land managers, staff and community is threatening.... why?

No worries if everyone went pro level speed, at least they’d have pro level skills. Y’all think about the extreme rare conditions, not the actual everyday scenarios.

 

[Carl Mega]

No worries if everyone went pro level speed, at least they’d have pro level skills. Y’all think about the extreme rare conditions, not the actual everyday scenarios.

No, that's not the posit. Current mtbrs, all at a pro speed. That's ebikes. Not rare. That is reality.

It's fine man. You can hold your view point, but it is that of an enthusiast - minded of their own direct benefit only. There is a community out there and when you honor that, there's a broader perspective needed and certainly by responsible mangers who have to consider all of their constituents.

 

[Gutch]

No, that's not the posit. Current mtbrs, all at a pro speed. That's ebikes. Not rare. That is reality.

It's fine man. You can hold your view point, but it is that of an enthusiast - minded of their own direct benefit only. There is a community out there and when you honor that, there's a broader perspective needed and certainly by responsible mangers who have to consider all of their constituents.

An ebike enthusiast in an ebike forum? Shame man. Are you pro ebike or not?

 

[Gutch]

Anyrate, no need for arguing. Ebike riders don’t ride full gas all the time everywhere. When are y’all gonna understand this? Oh wait, you don’t own one, I forgot.

 

[Carl Mega]

An ebike enthusiast in an ebike forum? Shame man. Are you pro ebike or not?

As stated, I'm minded on natural surface inclusion just not blanket policy. I advocate for new eBike trails and all in on eBikes for public transportation modality. There's a ton of potential in eBike and eMoto access. Personally, I'm invested on eMoto natural surface trails (ICE alternative) but I don't let my enthusiasm influence objective reasoning on pro/con to their category/inclusion.

There is no shame in being an enthusiast. You should advocate for your interests. However, being glib, disingenuous or ignorant of policy/legal concerns for land management is not a great look. There are people who are experienced, learned and empowered with these concerns and are responsible for balancing competing interests of the land and community; in the end - it is thru this process that policy is created. But certainly the first step is advocating for change, so were good there. The rest of the policy process is no different for eBike than any other user group.

 

[FJSnoozer]

I guess Pro’s are a problem [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

A pro most times will have fantastic handling skills (at least to handle the power they have) that developed as their power progressed. There are 150 pound 400 watt FTP riders who have pro level power from training and or racing road that do not possess great handling skills and can’t use all of their power efficiently on the trail, kind of like joe blow on his eBike in Turbo mode.

The national level pros should have well developed etiquette. Or at least a brand they represent that forces them to behave. (There are always exceptions)

200 pound Joe blow with a 200 watt FTP, usually has none of these things. Perhaps some decent handling skills from years of biking if they have that history.

It’s still shocking and a handful when you put them on a 55 pound bike with an extra 250 watts always on tap. This is obvious when we ride with weekend warriors friends and family on an ebike. They haven’t spent years developing handling skills as they progressively got faster and stronger. It would take months of riding to harness that speed.

And I am so far from pro it’s not even funny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gutch]

As stated, I'm minded on natural surface inclusion just not blanket policy. I advocate for new eBike trails and all in on eBikes for public transportation modality. There's a ton of potential in eBike and eMoto access. Personally, I'm invested on eMoto natural surface trails (ICE alternative) but I don't let my enthusiasm influence objective reasoning on pro/con to their category/inclusion.

There is no shame in being an enthusiast. You should advocate for your interests. However, being glib, disingenuous or ignorant of policy/legal concerns for land management is not a great look. There are people who are experienced, learned and empowered with these concerns and are responsible for balancing competing interests of the land and community; in the end - it is thru this process that policy is created. But certainly the first step is advocating for change, so were good there. The rest of the policy process is no different for eBike than any other user group.

As I’ve stated in the past, ebikes may or may not be suitable for every trail system. What pisses me off is when non ebikers come on this ebike forum and hammer the negativity towards them. It gets old, like REAL old. Just don’t have the patience for narrow minded chest beating bar end using, spandex wearing, banana peanut butter eating, hammer head drinking mtb riders. I was one and now I’m on an emtb and viewed differently? That’s BS.

 

[291748]

What pisses me off is when non ebikers come on this ebike forum

This site works differently now, you don't have to go to a subforum to see threads, they just pop up on the opening screen.
At least that's how mine works.

As far as "non ebikers come on this ebike forum", it's really a lot more like "e-bikers come on this mountain bike forum".
It's not like there aren't plenty of dedicated e-bike sites out there people could choose to go to instead.

 

[LarryMagoo]

This site works differently now, you don't have to go to a subforum to see threads, they just pop up on the opening screen.
At least that's how mine works.

As far as "non ebikers come on this ebike forum", it's really a lot more like "e-bikers come on this mountain bike forum".
It's not like there aren't plenty of dedicated e-bike sites out there people could choose to go to instead.

So Slappy, you don't think we belong here at all???

 

[291748]

So Slappy, you don't think we belong here at all???

Doesn't bother me. Hell, I used to be a moderator for this subforum.
But, it does seem kind of silly to go to a mountain bike website to talk about e-bikes and then get upset when there are mountain bikers there.
Nothing wrong with e-bikes at all, aside from e-bikers who insist that they're no different than mountain bikes, are allowed to go anywhere mountain bikes are by birthright, or insist on saying stupid crap like 'analog' or 'acoustic bike', etc. Of course people are going to catch crap for that sort of stuff. Deservedly so IMHO.

 

[_CJ]

I guess Pro’s are a problem 🤣🤣🤣

Well, duh...

 

[LarryMagoo]

I have never understood Analog or Acoustic...for describing a non motorized Mt Bike...I'm huge music guy...need it to survive...using audio terms to describe at My Bike is nuckin futs!

Besides the motor, everything else is the same on any Mt Bike....and of interest to me at this site that I used to belong to a couple decades ago until recently getting my first new ride in that time. I like reading all the comments on everything from Carbon Wheels to suspension components so that I can try and catch up on my lack of knowledge skipping the last 20 + years out of the sport.

Cheers!

 

[CRM6]

“Anyone” can achieve that speed on singletrack? Even a newb? My wife doesn’t ride, I’ll put her on my Levo and in Turbo mode and let her rip singletrack. Won’t happen, can’t, no skills. She would be a noob, no? The real problem is that y’all can’t accept change. Or you can’t accept that fellow mtbrs have changed! Live with an ebike for a year or two and see how “real life” scenario’s unfold.

This!!!!! Some folks are a little slow to accept change..... We are all of the same community.

 

[Gutch]

This site works differently now, you don't have to go to a subforum to see threads, they just pop up on the opening screen.
At least that's how mine works.

As far as "non ebikers come on this ebike forum", it's really a lot more like "e-bikers come on this mountain bike forum".
It's not like there aren't plenty of dedicated e-bike sites out there people could choose to go to instead.

Doesn't bother me. Hell, I used to be a moderator for this subforum.
But, it does seem kind of silly to go to a mountain bike website to talk about e-bikes and then get upset when there are mountain bikers there.
Nothing wrong with e-bikes at all, aside from e-bikers who insist that they're no different than mountain bikes, are allowed to go anywhere mountain bikes are by birthright, or insist on saying stupid crap like 'analog' or 'acoustic bike', etc. Of course people are going to catch crap for that sort of stuff. Deservedly so IMHO.

Yeah, I’ve been on here way before ebikes we’re around and obviously was riding way before mtbr became a site so I’m very familiar with the evolution of things and the bike industry finally has evolved into something of greatness with the emtb!!! There’s nothing new or interesting to talk about with mtbs so this is the most interesting subject, I get it. But yes, I agree about the other ebike sites as they are much more into ebikes. But they are relatively new, and also offer a sub forum or discussion for mtbs. Although, let’s be honest, it takes something radical in mtb advancement to get a rise out of riders that have ridden for awhile. It’s maxed out man, but not the emtb…

 

[PierreR]

Doesn't bother me. Hell, I used to be a moderator for this subforum.
But, it does seem kind of silly to go to a mountain bike website to talk about e-bikes and then get upset when there are mountain bikers there.
Nothing wrong with e-bikes at all, aside from e-bikers who insist that they're no different than mountain bikes, are allowed to go anywhere mountain bikes are by birthright, or insist on saying stupid crap like 'analog' or 'acoustic bike', etc. Of course people are going to catch crap for that sort of stuff. Deservedly so IMHO.

It is true that you have moderated considerably over the last 5 years on e bikes Five years ago, as a moderator, you were hell bent on eliminating this forum. It did not matter how reasoned or nice I was, you alway gave negative rep. It was crystal clear that if I continued to post in this forum that I would eventually end up in negative rep territory and eliminated. All was fine in MTBr until grandpa here medically could not keep up. Then you were more than willing to throw me under the bus. My way of the highway, If you have an e bike, you too are evil. You can say what you would like but you still consistently put likes on any post that disparages e bikes or e bike riders.
I finally feel that I can post once in a while in this forum but, the moderation of this forum has always been e bike haters and still has that element. That is why e bike hater threads are allowed to persist. My impression of you is still "All are not welcome in MTBr"

 

[291748]

My way of the highway, If you have an e bike, you too are evil. You can say what you would like but you still consistently put likes on any post that disparages e bikes or e bike riders.
I finally feel that I can post once in a while in this forum but, the moderation of this forum has always been e bike haters and still has that element. That is why e bike hater threads are allowed to persist. My impression of you is still "All are not welcome in MTBr"

You apparently either don't read very well, or only see what you want to see.
I moderated a forum I was hell-bent on getting rid of? That doesn't even make sense.
I had, and still have, no patience for people who make stupid arguments about motors not being motors, motors not changing access issues, e-bikes being no different than mountain bikes or that some random snippet of unrelated text gives e-bikes blanket access to anywhere mountain bikes are allowed. That basically describes about 80% of the e-bike proponents posting at that time.

It's obvious that you're one of those people who, any time someone brings up anything that falls short of being an all-out e-bike cheerleader, starts whining about 'haters'.