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So ebike and emotos are the same to you?
No.

They ARE actually the same. Nothing to do with me.

When you add a motor to a bicycle, you get a motorcycle. The means of controlling the throttle (i.e. crank rotation, thumb throttle, mobile app, whatever) doesn't change that.

I'll acknowledge that a Class 1 e-bike is a slow model of a motorcycle and possibly should be regulated differently. Just don't act like it's a bicycle when it's clearly not.

The issue with trying to regulate class 1s differently than other motorcycles is the fact that there's no way to enforce that. There's a guy in my neighborhood on a derestricted class 1, he does 30 + mph down the street to go to the trailhead. These hacks are commonly available and used.

There's no way to regulate this differential. Even a speed limit on a trail which would be horrible wouldn't work. Because it doesn't deal with the fact that e- bikes can get up to speed much faster in tight conditions than a bicycle, and with less skill.

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No.

They ARE actually the same. Nothing to do with me.

When you add a motor to a bicycle, you get a motorcycle. The means of controlling the throttle (i.e. crank rotation, thumb throttle, mobile app, whatever) doesn't change that.

I'll acknowledge that a Class 1 e-bike is a slow model of a motorcycle and possibly should be regulated differently. Just don't act like it's a bicycle when it's clearly not.

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I still think that behaving as if motorized vehicles are exactly the same as human powered ones is a dangerous slippery slope.

In places where there are true mountains with oneway trails, I'm totally supportive of e- bikes on those particular trails. But on our local 2 way trails with limited site distance they are a hazard.
So you are good with emotos on some mtn bike trails
 
I still think that behaving as if motorized vehicles are exactly the same as human powered ones is a dangerous slippery slope.
The question is, where do class 1 ebikes belong? They aren't going away, so they need to be granted access where it's most appropriate for them. The size, weight, appearance, speed, and environmental impact is virtually identical to traditional bicycles, therefore, class 1 ebikes clearly belong on MTB trails. All of them. Moto trails too, although in my experience, it really kind of sucks riding an ebike on most of those trails.

We keep going round and round on this, and until you have some data, or experience, your opinion carries no weight. None. Just because you think they don't belong doesn't make it so.

As for e-motos tearing up your trails? That has nothing to do with class 1 E-mountain bikes. Banning class 1 bikes is in no way going to improve that situation. It'll probably make it worse, because when everything is illegal, why not buy the most powerful bike you can find? If class1 is legal on the other hand, I'd wager that a fair number of those e-moto buyers would get themselves a class 1 instead.


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It breaks no rules and has been quite Civil. Why do you think I would have shut it down?


Aside from the fact that politics have been mentioned this horse has been thoroughly beaten to death and pretty much every other thread like it has been shut down. That's why.
 
No.

They ARE actually the same. Nothing to do with me.
Sorry, the Federal Government disagrees with you, and they make the laws, not you. Further, the fact that the feds say so nullifies any local or state laws to the contrary.

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I've had the experience of an e-bike traveling way too fast on a two-way Trail almost plowing my 40 lb daughter.

I genuinely support allowing people to recreate. I'm a motorcyclist my whole life and know the struggle.

E-bikes should not be on two way non-motorized trails. They are appropriate for Wide Open Spaces, strictly one-way trails, and Motorcycle Trails.

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Well, right now the "laws" have eBikes restricted on natural surface trails unless specifically included so there's that.

They deserve their own category and management.
 
Sorry, the Federal Government disagrees with you, and they make the laws, not you. Further, the fact that the feds say so nullifies any local or state laws to the contrary.

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We actually live in a Republic and state laws generally trump federal laws. To be clear TX has very little federal land. It's all city/ county parks and private land and they have the final say.

Some of you e- bikers want to act like you're Rosa Parks or something fighting the good battle but you're not. You're just breaking the law, endangering other people, and behaving selfishly.

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Sorry, the Federal Government disagrees with you, and they make the laws, not you. Further, the fact that the feds say so nullifies any local or state laws to the contrary.
For the love of gawd, please tell me this isn't another stupid reference to the CPSC e-bike definition.
Please, oh please let that utterly ridiculous 'argument' keep rotting in it's grave where it belongs.

And also, please don't mention the Federal government.
Someone will cry 'politics'.
:rolleyes:
 
I think our speed conversation has jumped the shark. That's ok. Believe it or not, the nature of debate is a lot better than years past. So that's progress.
 
Sounds like KTM wasted a lot of R&D money when they put out their e-moto, I mean they already have a emtb, but I guess they are the same? I’m confused, please enlighten. Isn’t mtbr clear that motorcycles are not ebikes? FC been putting in all these tests of E motos? Dang! 🤣🤣🤣
 
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Discussion starter · #216 ·
I think our speed conversation has jumped the shark. That's ok. Believe it or not, the nature of debate is a lot better than years past. So that's progress.
Yeah, it has naturally morphed into something a little different than the Original topic. But it has been civil. No name calling, some fair points by all. Lets keep it that way.
 
Sounds like KTM wasted a lot of R&D money when they put out their e-moto, I mean they already have a emtb, but I guess they are the same? I’m confused, please enlighten. Isn’t mtbr clear that motorcycles are not ebikes? FC been putting in all these tests of E motos? Dang! [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
Yeah, they should stop making the 450F as well, I mean they already have a 125...

This is a silly direction you're going down.

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Since I got my eMTB, I've done my best to limit my time on trail systems that aren't approved for e-bikes. It's hard right now in the PNW because most the approved trails are covered in snow. Even on an ebike, I still ride way slower than the regular riders mostly due to my health.

I have to admit that owning my ebike has motivated me to try new trails that are actually approved. I now feel confident I can pedal on these adventure trails so I'm looking forward to new rides in 2022.
Again, I think this really tends to come down to "what can happen" vs. "what actually happens". I'm guessing you ride Olallie a fair bit? I ride out there regularly (when not covered in snow). I have never been passed on the climb by an e-bike. I have probably passed ebikes on the climb on 5 or 6 different occasions the last 4 times I rode out there. And while I'm going pretty hard on the climb, I'm not exactly setting Strava records on it.

Can someone on an ebike go faster than I'm going? Of course. I certainly could. So what.

That trail is a classic example of what ebike access is a good thing. Fact is, most people aren't going to get to the top of a 9 mile climb that's 7% average and tops out at 30%. I realize that some think if you can't pedal up there, then you "don't deserve it". Personally, I think it would just mean that very few people would be interested in maintaining the trail... I'm glad that normal people can enjoy it.
 
Again, I think this really tends to come down to "what can happen" vs. "what actually happens". I'm guessing you ride Olallie a fair bit? I ride out there regularly (when not covered in snow). I have never been passed on the climb by an e-bike. I have probably passed ebikes on the climb on 5 or 6 different occasions the last 4 times I rode out there. And while I'm going pretty hard on the climb, I'm not exactly setting Strava records on it.

Can someone on an ebike go faster than I'm going? Of course. I certainly could. So what.

That trail is a classic example of what ebike access is a good thing. Fact is, most people aren't going to get to the top of a 9 mile climb that's 7% average and tops out at 30%. I realize that some think if you can't pedal up there, then you "don't deserve it". Personally, I think it would just mean that very few people would be interested in maintaining the trail... I'm glad that normal people can enjoy it.
I've never ridden Olallie before. Due to my health problems, I would not make that climb on a regular bike so I never bothered to attempt it. In general, I stuck to trails in the vicinity of my town because the harder trails are way too much for me to physically handle. I've ridden Tiger a few times in the past but I had some difficult times getting to the top because of everything wrong with me. I would love for Tiger to be ebike friendly in the future so I can ride to the top.

With my ebike, I definitely want to try trails that I've never done before.
 
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I've never ridden Olallie before. Due to my health problems, I would not make that climb on a regular bike so I never bothered to attempt it. In general, I stuck to trails in the vicinity of my town because the harder trails are way too much for me to physically handle. I've ridden Tiger a few times in the past but I had some difficult times getting to the top because of everything wrong with me. I would love for Tiger to be ebike friendly in the future so I can ride to the top.

With my ebike, I definitely want to try trails that I've never done before.
What happens if the bike breaks? An electric bike will allow you to go much farther out, which could be a concern if you have health problems that limit your ability to get back to where to started.

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