Remember that Green's lick was breaking backs left and right until the weeds grew in and it started looking like a slower trail. Now, you rarely hear of anybody getting hurt on it.

Same thing will happen with Kitsuma. Hopefully, before everybody who rides it is killed (;

 

Remember that Green's lick was breaking backs left and right until the weeds grew in and it started looking like a slower trail. Now, you rarely hear of anybody getting hurt on it.

Same thing will happen with Kitsuma. Hopefully, before everybody who rides it is killed (;

I rode Kitsuma today and was killed.

What has to happen to stop this madness?

 

Sunday Pancakes. 10:45 in the a.m. Only posted for relevance. Over and outta here.

 

Not time

Steve, man it was the 160 people that worked on Green's Lick that fixed that one area, not time and mother nature. If you don't like Kitsuma, go adopt the trail and fix it. You all have got to get out from in front of your GD computers.

Ben

 

Seems like most people are just afraid of changes. I agree with Ben, if its really that bad then go get yourself an $8 shovel and adopt the trail and get at it.

 

Steve, man it was the 160 people that worked on Green's Lick that fixed that one area, not time and mother nature. If you don't like Kitsuma, go adopt the trail and fix it. You all have got to get out from in front of your GD computers.

Ben

e-riders and cock-jockeys.........

 

MotoMike and like-minded individuals,
Volunteering aside - wouldn't you prefer that paid trailwork actually resulted in a sustainable trail? Accountability is important! :thumbsup:

 

Steve, man it was the 160 people that worked on Green's Lick that fixed that one area, not time and mother nature. If you don't like Kitsuma, go adopt the trail and fix it. You all have got to get out from in front of your GD computers.

Ben

Narrow trail discourages speed, and even the addition of a foot of weeds has brought speeds down on Green's Lick.

Thanks to all who installed the berms and rock gardens on Green's Lick. I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feeling by not mentioning all that effort.

...

 

Government trail maintenance?

WAIT....
you guys have the luxury of paid trail maintenance by the government? I agree on the misguided contract work but hey you have somebody actually maintaining your trails! Not bad in my opinion.
Here in California they just close access if they deem the trail "unsafe" and that is it. There is no money being spend or available to do trail maintenance. If we are lucky the mountain bike association gets access to do some trail work.
In my opinion what needs to be done is organize yourself and and make sure the next time you have input in the trail design.

 

WAIT....
you guys have the luxury of paid trail maintenance by the government? I agree on the misguided contract work but hey you have somebody actually maintaining your trails! Not bad in my opinion.
Here in California they just close access if they deem the trail "unsafe" and that is it. There is no money being spend or available to do trail maintenance..

That's cuz you have a renegade combat soldier as governor.....

 

WAIT....
you guys have the luxury of paid trail maintenance by the government? I agree on the misguided contract work but hey you have somebody actually maintaining your trails! Not bad in my opinion.
Here in California they just close access if they deem the trail "unsafe" and that is it. There is no money being spend or available to do trail maintenance. If we are lucky the mountain bike association gets access to do some trail work.
In my opinion what needs to be done is organize yourself and and make sure the next time you have input in the trail design.

This is a federal project with federal money on federal lands. It's not really a California VS N. Carolina debate. At least your state parks have mtn bike trails. The brilliant folks who run NC state parks don't seam to think mtn biking is an appropriate use for a state park. There are clubs who are chomping at the bit to raise money, build trails, do maintenance on NC state park lands. But in 98% of the NC state parks, the state has refused mtn bike access.

 

This is a federal project with federal money on federal lands. It's not really a California VS N. Carolina debate. At least your state parks have mtn bike trails. The brilliant folks who run NC state parks don't seam to think mtn biking is an appropriate use for a state park. There are clubs who are chomping at the bit to raise money, build trails, do maintenance on NC state park lands. But in 98% of the NC state parks, the state has refused mtn bike access.

which state parks are you referring to? I thought Kitsuma was in Pisgah National Forest unless someone "moved" it.

 

State Park.
National Forrest.

STATE gov vs. FEDERAL gov.

 

which state parks are you referring to? I thought Kitsuma was in Pisgah National Forest unless someone "moved" it.

Kitsuma is on Federal land (Pisgah National Forest). That's my point. There is no comparison from one state to another. Which is what the guy from California was attempting to do. He was saying we have it easy here in NC. Truth is our state park system is ass backwards when it comes to mtn biking. All the other states in our region are way ahead of us in developing mtn biking trails.

Who are you? What is your point? Are you trollish? :skep:

 

Kitsuma is on Federal land (Pisgah National Forest). That's my point. There is no comparison from one state to another. Which is what the guy from California was attempting to do. He was saying we have it easy here in NC. Truth is our state park system is ass backwards when it comes to mtn biking. All the other states in our region are way ahead of us in developing mtn biking trails.

Who are you? What is your point? Are you trollish? :skep:

I am Sam, who are you? What is YOUR point? Are YOU trollish?

 

South Mtn has mountain bike trails.....if you call riding dirt roads trails. South Mtn could be the East Coast Moab but the State just don't get it.

 

With respect to the "pick up a shovel" comments, unless I'm mistaken, performing unauthorized trail work on federal land is illegal and the penalty can be quite severe.

 

With respect to the "pick up a shovel" comments, unless I'm mistaken, performing unauthorized trail work on federal land is illegal and the penalty can be quite severe.

If I'm not mistaken, Blue Ridge Adventures has adopted Kitsuma, So if you were to get with Todd, I think you could do fully authorized trail work on Kitsuma,

 

^ Was this adoption before or after the rework?

 

It was before. He's done several work days in the past as part of the prep for ORAMM. It's really too bad that the contract did not go to Long Cane Trails.

 

Seems like most people are just afraid of changes. I agree with Ben, if its really that bad then go get yourself an $8 shovel and adopt the trail and get at it.

Have you or Ben ridden it? Doesn't sound like it or you'd make the same comments.

A rough guess if you had an excavator to go back and actually fill in all the ditches would be two weeks work. I've seen good trail work and bad trail work. And now I've seen stupid trail work.

Interesting trail note:

There is a hard, blind left I was "moto-ing" around. It was bermed up and then suddenly an uphill water bar/ditch/embankment thing. It made my inside foot come up so hard and fast, it never left the ground and I smacked my knee on the stem, foot still on the ground.

You guys can guess all you want, but until you ride it, please don't post what we should "do" about it. Any trail contractor or volunteer who has ever wielded a shovel want to take a stab at how many man hours it would take 10 volunteers to shovel in those ditches to make them safe?

It's only what....3 miles of 'em.

 

Butch, you aare right

Man, you're right. And if you can't physically fix it. There is no good answer. To tell you the truth man, I feel like WNC got F*&^ED by the FS this year. I was just hoping someone might take initiative with a tool. But, I haven't ridden it, nor will I probably ride it while it is all screwed up. You can write letters and make phone calls, but we all know that probably won't actually "fix" the problem. So, what do you do?

You have 3 options:

1. Don't do S^%T, that is the way WNC works right now. Honestly, the amount of money that was spent in the last year or two won't happen again, so in time the wounds might heal.

2. Get a tool, talk to Todd and go do work son! But, that will be hard and thankless, so it takes a special breed to do that.

3. Be political. It won't fix the immediate problem, but may help nip issues in the bud in the future.

Remember, there are still quite a few trails to be "fixed" in the remaining contracts, so this isn't over yet.

My main point in the other post was to correct Steve about GL. 160 people put a lot of work into that trail. I want to make sure, that isn't forgotten. Now time to get back to the snow. Miss the people of WNC once in a while, but the trails in UT are STELLAR.

Ben

 

(ya know, I was simply making the point that a trail that's visually narrow discourages speed. When weeds encroach on the trail, you don't want to go off-line because you don't know what's hidden in there. When Green's Lick was first completed, it was wide with nothing scary off-line. It looked safe and easy, and it encouraged speed... and that false sense of security got a bunch of people into trouble. There are and were trails around that are far more dangerous than Green's Lick, but they don't cause the injuries that Green's Lick did. I wasn't wrong. No correction was needed.

I don't know if Ben is ignoring my point for the sake of winning an argument or if he's unaware of the positive effects that visual elements can have on rider speed.

If Ben wanted to ADD that we shouldn't forget the hard work that so many people put into making fixes to Green's Lick, then he could have done so, pleasantly. Instead, he seems to have taken it personally. Sorry, Ben, but whenever you produce something, people are going to have an opinion of it. Trust me, I know A LOT about this. It ain't always fun.

If Ben wants to assume that I deliberately omitted thanking him and everybody, he can go right ahead and do that. It's not the case. I applaud anybody who gets out and does what they can to help. That doesn't mean that we can't debate the effectiveness or safety of the work done. Criticism, good or bad, should be used to improve subsequent work.

For what it's worth, thanks to Ben and all volunteers. Do what you can to use people's feedback without letting it p!ss you off so. )

 

I just want to say again how sorry I am for hurting Ben's feelings.

Stop picking on Ben, you know how high strung he is.

 

Well this is just a bump so eveyone has to click on it to see what was posted last:ciappa: :yawn: :smilewinkgrin: