While working for some, personally Im partial to the tighter gear spacing of 10/11s.

Could be made just as strong by increasing rear spacing. Big issue is if you have noticed, so many are extremely concerned about every gram. Thats part of why durability has dropped so bad with 11 and now 12s. Keeping the weight minimal means sacrificing durability.

9s wide range cassettes exist and 9s last about as long as 8s. Actually thinking about getting a wide range 9s for my sons fat bike.

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Personally I think eagle range in 8-10 cog cassette would be awesome. Not only for the reasons + lighter that you mentioned but also performance. I rarely shift 1 cog but 3-4 at a time. I think after a couple rides it would be more intuitive and you would be in the right gear more of the time.

 

I would not want an 8 speed with Eagle range. For a 500% range, you'd get 62% per cog with 8 speeds. Not only would I always feel 'between gears', but I imagine it would shift as bad as a front derailleur.

Cassette idea: 10-16-23-29-35-41-47-54

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I would not want an 8 speed with Eagle range. For a 500% range, you'd get 62% per cog with 8 speeds. Not only would I always feel 'between gears', but I imagine it would shift as bad as a front derailleur.

Cassette idea: 10-16-23-29-35-41-47-54

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You would only need 22-25% jumps between each cog to get wide range. 11-14-17-21-26-32-39-48 is rounding up or down from 22 percent jumps between each cog. Basically a gear and a half of a wide range 10 speed per jump.

60 percent jumps between each cog would be 11-18-28-45-72-115-184-294

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No. I don't have a problem with the jumps on my 10-42 11spd but the same range with 8spd... No thank you.

I wouldn't say 8spd stuff was more reliable or easier to setup either than 10-11-12. One time I changed a cable on my ZEE RD, I just put the cable in, no joke I haven't touched the barrel adjuster and it shifted perfectly.

"Each shift would reel in a lot of cable so friction in the cables wouldnt be a big deal."

I recommend you check out the charts in this article:

Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

Just as an example, an 8spd SIS shifter pulls 2.8mm of cable, and a Shimano MTB 11spd shifter pulls 3.6mm. So...

If new 8 speed stuff comes out it's going to be just as expensive as the current high end stuff.

8 speed is cheap because it's considered outdated and you can mostly only get low end stuff.
EX1 is a good example.

If an 8spd XTR came out tomorrow that was exactly the same as the current 11spd XTR just with less gears, it would cost just as much.

 

OP, please explain how going to an 8spd cassette on a normal hub that ran 9, 10, 11 or 12 spd would improve chainline, seriously, very interested to hear this.

As to an 8spd cassette, no thanks, the jumps between cogs would be huge if you're talking truly wide range like 11-40, ala the old Shimano BS Mega Range, no I don't want a 14 tooth jump from one cog to the next.

 

OP, please explain how going to an 8spd cassette on a normal hub that ran 9, 10, 11 or 12 spd would improve chainline, seriously, very interested to hear this.

8-9-10spd cassettes are the same in terms of overall width, but an 11spd cassette is wider. So on the biggest or smallest cog the chain is at a slightly better angle on an 8-9-10spd compared to an 11spd cassette. But the difference is not that big.

On a true 11spd HG freehub you need a spacer to fit 8-9-10 cassettes. 42T+ cassettes work on 8-9-10spd HG freehub bodies because the cassettes are pushed towards the spokes more. That won't work on 36T and under (road cassettes).

 

No.

 

This.

It'd either have not enough range or big jumps. 8 speed should go the way of the dodo bird. The narrower chains might not last as long, but a chain is 20 bucks. Put a spare in your shop/truck and replace your chain once or twice a year.

 

With a reliable & affordable 9 speed 40-11 cassette already on the market i would say no,there isn't much need for a super wide range 8 speed cassette. A few years ago yes, but not now.

 

Right but what if you HAVE an 8-speed to begin with. Going to 9 is certainly not worth it. If you have a 9-speed then yes, that's great. But 9 is not that much better than 8, no way you can convince me of that, sorry. 10 speed yes, better, 9 speed, no.

 

I wouldn't be interested, I like tighter ratios and the 10 sp I'm on now has been very reliable.

I know that Sram Ex 1 already exists but it's not true 8 speed spacing (it's narrower) and its so expensive. Plus the shifter only bangs off one shift at a time.

Seems like with the wider gaps double shifts wouldn't be necessary. Totally agree about the price, I can't comprehend $300 cassettes.

OP, please explain how going to an 8spd cassette on a normal hub that ran 9, 10, 11 or 12 spd would improve chainline, seriously, very interested to hear this.

Sram xg 8-sp will do it because it's 7mm narrower.

 

I run custom cassettes, and make sure that the gear spacing is as consistent as possible (percentage wise), with progressively wider % spacing toward the lower gears in some cases.

I think if people tried a properly spaced wide-range cassette, they'd be surprised at how well it works, but it really depends on the individual and the type of riding they do. I've looked far and wide, but never found which I would consider a properly-spaced wide-range cassette. Even on the stock stuff, it's not unusual to see big differences in the % change from one gear to the next. I don't particularly want to build custom drivertrains, but can't find what I want in production.

I'm currently riding 11-36 8-speed, with all the gear changes between 15% and 20%, with the lower percentage changes skewed toward the higher gears. In the mountains, I ran 11-42 9-speed. Again with the 11-42, I did my own because I couldn't find an 11-42 (or similar) 9 or 10-speed available for purchase that had gear spacing that I felt was optimal.

To put it in perspective, people do amazing things on single-speeds...

 

I run custom cassettes, and make sure that the gear spacing is as consistent as possible (percentage wise), with progressively wider % spacing toward the lower gears in some cases.

I think if people tried a properly spaced wide-range cassette, they'd be surprised at how well it works, but it really depends on the individual and the type of riding they do. I've looked far and wide, but never found which I would consider a properly-spaced wide-range cassette. Even on the stock stuff, it's not unusual to see big differences in the % change from one gear to the next. I don't particularly want to build custom drivertrains, but can't find what I want in production.

I'm currently riding 11-36 8-speed, with all the gear changes between 15% and 20%, with the lower percentage changes skewed toward the higher gears. In the mountains, I ran 11-42 9-speed. Again with the 11-42, I did my own because I couldn't find an 11-42 (or similar) 9 or 10-speed available for purchase that had gear spacing that I felt was optimal.

To put it in perspective, people do amazing things on single-speeds...

I think it would be a nice option to be able to customize a cassette more easily or have that option be more readily available. I know that I would likely drop the 11 and 12 cog on my PG990 cassette because my chain never touches them for a 36-40 cog. I also like the idea of running a 5 spd cassette on a SS freehub like the Hope. I don't think I'm into a wide range cassette with bigger jumps though. I still likely wouldn't use the 11 cog.

Jackl, how are you customizing your cassettes? Are you ordering several cassettes and reordering them? Where are you getting your cogs? As for your last thought... yes, people are doing amazing things on singlespeeds!

 

I would happily use a 1x8 if the ratios were ok. I would also prefer 2x8 to the 2x10 I have now. Eight-speed was so much easier to adjust, was more reliable and I do not need the amount of gears 2x10 provides. Off road I virtually always shift multiple gears at a time. Very close gear ratios make sense on the road but for most off-road riding they are not needed.

 

I could get by pretty well giving up the 3 smallest cogs on my 11sp 10-42 cassette.

 

It seems like some people say they need small percentage jumps, some dont. Some people are ok with big percentage jumps (20-25%) specifically at the bottom of the cassette, some want the bottom to have small jumps (15-20%).

Would there be any value in having cassettes that offer the same wide range but just a choice in which part of the cassette has the small jumps vs big jumps?

I wonder if people's responses are a result of the terrain they happen to reside near or if its just a state of mind. Speaking of state of mind, do you think the people who post on mtbr are a good representation of the average mountain biker? Or are a lot of them the real fanatics that obsess over small details similar to how wine connoisseurs are compared to average wine drinkers?

 

Would there be any value in having cassettes that offer the same wide range but just a choice in which part of the cassette has the small jumps vs big jumps?

I think so. I also think choosing the overall spread would be good too.

Where I ride is very hilly so good climbing gears are a must but I rarely use the highest gears. Others might ride in flatter, faster areas. The ideal would be loose gears that bolted together so that yo could hand pick your cassette.

 

Now I want a wide range 8 speed cassette just cause it would rustle people's jimmys

 

To answer the OP, yes, maybe. In the past I've desired a very simple wide-ish range 6-8 speed drivetrain. Basically riding each gear as though it were SS if that makes any sense. I like and use 8 speed chains on my SS's as they're cheap and durable.

It's silly really though. There's other good options out there as others have shown.

I'm totally fine with my 1x10 11-42 on my fatbike. I'm also fine with my SS's. I'm all for simplicity, having less gears doesn't inhibit my fun or dampen my experience.

I'm done with front derailleurs, and I assure you I will never own 12 speed. If anything I may do a 1x11 on my new gravel build. 11-46 Shimano comes awfully close to Eagle without the ridiculous expense, unreliability, and finicky BS.

 

Could I ride it? Yes. Would the gear spreads possibly be too much for good smooth operation? Yes. If it were available, would I use it? Hell no. 11spd works great and I have 3 setups that work awesome for XC racing to DH racing. There would be no benefit for me, just like there's no benefit for me to upgrade to 12 speed, there's nothing there I need and no significant advantage to doing so.

 

I would be fine with a 8 speed wide range cassette, and a friction thumb shifter. The trigger shifter needs 11 cogs because it has trouble with big jumps. My Sun Tour power thumb shifters work fine on big jumps. I want the 3 smallest cogs a little closer together, to save the chain from jumping off on multi up shifts. Big jumps are fine for the big cogs Do I get a 46, or is it just 42? Does this mean more room for 3 inch tires? No chain rub.

Who makes the wide range 9 speed?

 

Who makes the wide range 9 speed?

Sunrace will have one. 12-40 I think.

 

I almost took you serious for a second lol.

And sunrace makes them. Stop at 40 or 42t iirc

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It's very appealing to me.

I think there is too much shifting, I usually need to shift 2x on my Eagle, and each shift slows me down as I mostly quit applying power.

The fact that I occasionally get passed by guys riding single speeds makes me pretty certain I could be content on an 8 speed. I personally have never used the 2 highest gears except for an occasional downhill pavement run. So I'm already effectively running a 10 speed. So losing 2 more gears seems like an inconsequential change to me. If it was lighter/ cheaper/ more reliable/ required less speed losing shifts I'd be in to it. For my purposes I'd ideally want a low gear of about 48 teeth and about 485% range would be fine.

I must say however, my Eagle XX1 has two advantages over every other system I have ran. First it shifts amazing, even under power. Although that little chain will snap if you get silly with the power shifts. Secondly, on my particular chassis, I get better anti-squat performance with a larger front chain ring, and the eagle 50 tooth allows me to run the needed larger front. That was a pretty big improvement in my bike performance. I wouldn't want to go back to a 46 or 44 low gear for this reason.

 

As has been said, there wide enough range 9 spd out or coming out already, 8 has gone by the wayside,, so to speak now. Personally I'll never forget that stupid as fock, huge, a$$ jump on Shimano's Mega Range cassettes back in the day, thinkk it was 14 tooth, insane. Unless you were a damn experienced rider who could spin like a hamster on crack, when you made that switch the difference was so huge you ended up just getting off and walking because the sudden increase in RPM just killed your legs and lungs. No thanks

 

I'll never forget that stupid as fock, huge, a$$ jump on Shimano's Mega Range cassettes back in the day..

But the gears weren't evenly spaced on those, it was a fairly normal cassette with a huge jump to the last ring.

 

No. I like my Eagle and like my 1x10 11-40 as well.

 

So I am supposed to sell all my 11 and 12 speed stuff to "upgrade" to 1 x 8? Maybe if you throw in a quill stem and cantilever brakes.

 

I’m a no as well. I don’t even need the Eagle gear range, happy with 10-42 (and yes, XX1 is lighter than eagle, so yeah I’m on that side of the fence). I am occasionally bothered by big skips especially on my hardtail with a 34t chainwheel.

Maybe I don’t put out enough watts but I don’t get the durability issues. I have almost 1000 miles on my trail bike’s X01 and the cassette shifts perfectly. I have been through several chains but I expect that.


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I'm curious how many chains exactly you've gone through in the 1000 miles? This is the big thing I dislike about 1x setup with so many cogs, the chainline is really bad over at least 1/3 of the cassette which increases chain wear. On my 9spd, 2x setups, I used to get about 700-800 miles on a chain, so far since I moved to 10spd, 2x, it doesn't seem to be much different in terms of miles per chain.

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Maybe I don't put out enough watts but I don't get the durability issues. I have almost 1000 miles on my trail bike's X01 and the cassette shifts perfectly. I have been through several chains but I expect that.

 

My 10 speed and now 12 speed stuff shifts so much better than any of my 8 speed stuff could have hoped to do. Basically set it once and forget it. The chains last longer. Everything is better. I don't know why anyone would want to go backwards on this stuff. Comparing my mid-'90s 3x8 XT drivetrain to my current Eagle is night and day in terms of reliability/durability.

 

My 10 speed and now 12 speed stuff shifts so much better than any of my 8 speed stuff could..

Yeah but hang on, your SRAM Eagle costs how much?? If a modern 8-speed system was engineered to the same quality it would shift just as well and probably better.

 

I love the idea of an 8-speed as I stated before. However my Eagle 12-speed shifts amazing, considerably better then my 11-speed and then my 2 x 9 before that.
I shift it while completely under power up shift and downshift I've only dropped the chain once in about 3 months.

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This was an interesting perspective from Andrew

https://nsmb.com/articles/sram-ex1-lets-pretend-the-e-stands-for-everyone/

 

That cassette has the most fvcked up ratios I think I've ever seen, but I guess if you're using a motor it doesn't make much difference. For me, when I trying my best to make it up that steep, technical climb and also trying to not let my eyes pop out of my head from how fast my heart is beating, I like my jumps to be nice and even and to be small increases that don't put me from being in almost the right gear for my preferred cadence, to spinning like a hamster on crack.