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Octopuss

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I thought I understood it but no.
I know that chainline is the distance in mm from centre of the fram to the chainring, but then what does "frame chainine" mean? I thought it was only dependant on cranks and a chainring.
I have Propain Hugene frame that says 52mm chainline. What does that even mean when I can take DUB wide cranks with an appropriate chainring and end up with 55mm?
 
It means that the optimal chainline for the frame is 52mm, which puts the chainring in a position relative to the cassette for optimal shifting. You can use a chainring with an offset other than what is recommended to get a chainline other than what is recommended. Some people, in fact, do this if they want to optimize the chainline for the higher or lower gears on the cassette. The downside of using a chainline other than recommended is that you will be significantly cross-chained in either the higher or lower gears on the cassette and shifting will not be as good as it could be.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
It means that the optimal chainline for the frame is 52mm, which puts the chainring in a position relative to the cassette for optimal shifting. You can use a chainring with an offset other than what is recommended to get a chainline other than what is recommended. Some people, in fact, do this if they want to optimize the chainline for the higher or lower gears on the cassette. The downside of using a chainline other than recommended is that you will be significantly cross-chained in either the higher or lower gears on the cassette and shifting will not be as good as it could be.
Ok, but in the case of SRAM Transmission (which is what all my problems spin around), this shouldn't even matter, because the cassette is moved outwards (by 2,5mm as well, or is my assumption wrong?
 
I would ignore "frame chainline", as you mentioned, different groupsets have different ideal chainlines. I would only pay attention to non-boost, boost, super boost, or fat bike, and then use whatever chainline the drivetrain manufacturer uses/recommends for the given axle width. Transmission on boost frame wants 55mm chainline, so use DUB Wide to achieve that.
 
I’ve been diving into this a bit recently as i want to go down to 165mm cranks. I’m running Shimano on both bikes with my Oiz having M8100 XT cranks which have a 52mm chain line. Orbea don’t appear to list the ‘optimal’ chain line for the frame, but I believe when Shimano introduced the 55mm option it gave frame designers a few mm to play with around the BB, and Shimano say it doesn’t have a negative impact on drivetrain performance with HyperGlide+?

I imagine if your bike is designed around a 55mm chain line then you may have issues running a 52mm crankset, but if your bike was built for 52mm then moving to 55mm should pose no technical issues, but it will increase your Q factor by 6mm…
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Who changed the thread title?
Snowflake mods I presume. But hey, at least I didn't get bunch of post-millenials go apeshit yelling "OHMIGAD WE DON'T SAY THE R-WORD!!!1111"

I would ignore "frame chainline", as you mentioned, different groupsets have different ideal chainlines. I would only pay attention to non-boost, boost, super boost, or fat bike, and then use whatever chainline the drivetrain manufacturer uses/recommends for the given axle width. Transmission on boost frame wants 55mm chainline, so use DUB Wide to achieve that.
Yeah, but on my frame, 55mm looks pretty damn wrong:
Image
 
^^^^
Your drive train is so nice and clean!

Have you ridden it, and if so, has this translated into bad shifting or power transfer in 1st and 2nd gears?
I seem to recall that you were considering different ring offsets to move the chainline, but availability was an issue. Did anything come of that?
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
That's because it's brand new :D
It's still in the workshop, the bike is still very much half-disassembled :D

Bought one chainring, paid exorbitant fees to the damn customs, and it was messed up from the factory.
 
I have no idea what my chainline value is (guessing 51.879 degrees! Or is that mm?), but this works fine.
Shifts great, quiet, no shifting on backpedal.
My advice - forget you ever heard of the term "chainline".

Image
 
Yeah, but on my frame, 55mm looks pretty damn wrong:
How does it look in the middle of the cassette and in 12th?

I know nothing about "Transmission" yet, but generally the optimal chainline is a couple mm larger than the center of the cassette so the chain doesn't tick on the next bigger cog when in high gear.
 
To me all 1x12 chain lines look wrong. Crappy chain lines are just what we get with super sized cassettes. As far as chain line goes I just shoot for the least amount of cross up in the lowest gears. Whatever happens to shifting happens. Too bad it's becoming hard to find non boost rings anymore.
 
Yeah, 1x12 mtb chainline is very noticeable moving from road/gravel to mtb.
Road and gravel has 142mm rear hub.
Road has 43.5mm (Shimano 9-11 speed) or 44.5mm (Shimano 12 speed) or 45mm (all Sram) chainline.
Gravel may bump it up to 47.5mm with some cranks on some frame that are willing to sacrifice the straighter chainline for more tire clearance.
But a lot of gravel bike has the same chainline as road bike.

Mtb boost has 148mm rear hub. It's 3mm extra each left and right. So I'd expect to see at most 47.5 (wide gravel chainline) +3mm = 50.5mm. Instead, we see either 52mm or 55mm chainline.
 
Here's some nerding on the subject, but I pulled one paragraph in particular:

"According to Shimano North America Mountain Bike Product Manager, Nick Murdick, a few folks at Shimano had been suggesting a move to a 55mm chainline for a while. Those clearance issues (mostly on SLX and XT cranks) were why it finally did happen. But more importantly, the reason it could happen was because the drivetrain could handle it. “From the beginning, Hyperglide+ was designed to tolerate a crank chainline that is 2mm outboard of the nominal cassette chainline,” Murdick tells us. Yes he did just say 2mm, not 3mm. Sorry to derail us over 1mm, but let me explain. Exactly what a “Boost” or “non-Boost” chainline is will vary depending on who and when you ask. That’s why I used “approximately” way back in this story’s first paragraph. Today, 52mm and 49mm are most commonly used, but that’s because of a shift that happened during some axle-widening growing pains. Murdick clarifies that, “Non-boost chain lines were mostly 50mm and boost brought that out to 53mm. During the 11 speed Hyperglide era, some crank brands found that they could eliminate chain skating when backpedaling by reducing the chain line to 52mm, and that became the standard for boost cranks.”"

.
 
This thread makes me realize that I should stay on 10spd as long as possible. Where I call 11spd and up, 'chain-skip-on-frame-flex-cassettes'.

And for those of you who don't have it bookmarked... All About Bicycle Chainline
 
I’ve been diving into this a bit recently as i want to go down to 165mm cranks. I’m running Shimano on both bikes with my Oiz having M8100 XT cranks which have a 52mm chain line. Orbea don’t appear to list the ‘optimal’ chain line for the frame, but I believe when Shimano introduced the 55mm option it gave frame designers a few mm to play with around the BB, and Shimano say it doesn’t have a negative impact on drivetrain performance with HyperGlide+?

I imagine if your bike is designed around a 55mm chain line then you may have issues running a 52mm crankset, but if your bike was built for 52mm then moving to 55mm should pose no technical issues, but it will increase your Q factor by 6mm…
Depending on the crankset, the chainline can change but the Q-factor will remain the same. SRAM/Canfield cranks are the first ones that come to mind as you can get 6/3/0mm offset chainrings for these cranks (and others) which change the chainline and don't change the q-factor.

I like to think of cranks as a fun experiment that involves spindle width (if applicable), Q-factor, and chainline! Experimenting is fun.
 
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