[Catmandoo]

Another vote for Instinct 2, does everything I want it to (and a lot more I don't care about) and works well with my phone and Edge.



I used to use a strap, but the Instinct is pretty much spot on so I stopped bothering. Maybe doesn't respond quite as fast to short, high intensity efforts, but I'm not tracking HR for those anyway. I have found that if the wrist band isn't tight enough I can get unrealistic HR numbers from the Instinct.



to clarify the battery life statement above, that 24+ hrs is while actively tracking/recording an activity. More like 24-30 DAYS in normal watch mode (which still collects basic health data in the background)!

Yes, that’s a typo. I meant to say 24-26 days normal use.

 

[Mudguard]

I had a chance to get a watch as well. I've used a 520 and 530, but I didn't want a watch with overlapping for riding. I'm not interested in a watch for serious mountain biking, as I simply can't read the screen as easily.
I got their golf watch, which I really wasn't that keen on for golf, but mostly the health metrics. I had no interest in GPS for golf as most of us use lasers, but I've been really impressed with it.
If I hadn't gone with the S62 I would have got an Instinct. What I like about Garmin in this regard is that yes, they do watches for specific activities, but they'll let you do other sports with them as well. So if we go for a hike or something, I'll use the watch.
And battery life is brilliant.

 

[snow snakes]

Yeah, Venu probably sounds right up your alley, especially if cycling is your main sport.

FWIW, I still prefer using a chest strap for interval type activities, but having tried a ton of different sports watches, the iteration of OHR on the Forerunner 945 is fantastic, especially for steady state activity. At this point, I just use the HR relay feature for Z2/long rides.

 

[Offspring]

Epix2 and use my 840 for broadcasting my watch data to the 840, easier to read.

Big problem is that extended display only works ½ the time. the watch and 840 won't remember each other and I have to find it in sensors each time. Really east to read the big screen but I get so mad when it stops working. The devices are about 18" apart the whole time.

 

[Mudguard]

Epix2 and use my 840 for broadcasting my watch data to the 840, easier to read.

Big problem is that extended display only works ½ the time. the watch and 840 won't remember each other and I have to find it in sensors each time. Really east to read the big screen but I get so mad when it stops working. The devices are about 18" apart the whole time.

Just out of interest, what is your use case for the 840? Essentially a screen extension? I guess the obvious question, is there something the 840 doesn't do which means you rely on the watch?

 

[msrothwe]

I've had a different experience with my Garmin watch. I've done lots of rides using both a chest strap and the watch and the heart rate data overlays are nearly identical. I can use either device confidently.

Agree with this 100%. HR data from my Forerunner 955 and Edge Explor 2 w/chest strap are typically spot on with each other.

However, back when I used a Whoop, not so much...

Dang, I’m a little jealous that you guys have had such good luck with yours, I’d love to ditch the strap. I was initially wondering if mine was defective because I hadn’t heard anyone complaining about it, so I emailed Garmin and their response was basically, “Yeah it’s not accurate, you should wear a chest strap if you really want to know what your heart rate is” which really pissed me off.

It was funny though, when I returned it to REI, the guy asked why and I said it was because the HRM didn’t work. He was like, “Ah, yeah. Totally didn’t work for me either, completely understand”. So it is a thing.

And fwiw, it was pretty spot on with the strap if I was still and had a low HR, like under 100 or so. It just started to get less and less accurate as the HR went up. I actually don’t think I ever saw it record >145 bpm, even when I was all out on a climb that usually gets my heart rate up to the mid 180s. So maybe if your HR is naturally slow you’ll encounter less problems? My dad is 72 and runs 30-40 miles a week still and has a resting HR in the 30s, he never sees over 140 or so, I wonder if the Fenix OHRM would work for him.

 

[Offspring]

Just out of interest, what is your use case for the 840? Essentially a screen extension? I guess the obvious question, is there something the 840 doesn't do which means you rely on the watch?

Yes I use it just for a screen extension. It is especially useful on night rides with it's backlight.

I envisioned using it like it was intended with the tri-sport guys, but it drops gps signals more than my watch does on the trails I ride. I only tried it because I wanted to put it to use since I rely on the watch for everything now and it was just sitting, and I don't run both because I don't want the duplication of every ride. Before, about 1.5 years ago? It worked pretty good, now it won't recognize the watch anymore and when I manually go and try to connect it, it drops the connection every ride now. Sometimes it loses it in a few minutes, and other times it goes a half-hour or so. I tried once to reach out to support and like usual it was a tremendous time suck with no resolution, just a 50 question game.

 

[Mudguard]

Yes I use it just for a screen extension. It is especially useful on night rides with it's backlight.

I envisioned using it like it was intended with the tri-sport guys, but it drops gps signals more than my watch does on the trails I ride. I only tried it because I wanted to put it to use since I rely on the watch for everything now and it was just sitting, and I don't run both because I don't want the duplication of every ride. Before, about 1.5 years ago? It worked pretty good, now it won't recognize the watch anymore and when I manually go and try to connect it, it drops the connection every ride now. Sometimes it loses it in a few minutes, and other times it goes a half-hour or so. I tried once to reach out to support and like usual it was a tremendous time suck with no resolution, just a 50 question game.

Hmm that's frustrating. I've been looking to replace my 520 with the 840 as I thought it's only been out a year.

I'm surprised the GPS is less reliable, I tend think the bigger devices tend to do better as the antenna is bigger. Do you use a wheel sensor? My partner has gone from a 520 to 830 and it's been brilliant. We both use chest straps as well.

I don't need anything sent from my watch. Phone connects with both so I can see messages or if someone is ringing. My phone stays in my pocket or pack usually. Maybe the 840 needs a firmware update?

 

[Offspring]

Hmm that's frustrating. I've been looking to replace my 520 with the 840 as I thought it's only been out a year.

I'm surprised the GPS is less reliable, I tend think the bigger devices tend to do better as the antenna is bigger. Do you use a wheel sensor? My partner has gone from a 520 to 830 and it's been brilliant. We both use chest straps as well.

I don't need anything sent from my watch. Phone connects with both so I can see messages or if someone is ringing. My phone stays in my pocket or pack usually. Maybe the 840 needs a firmware update?

I've been through it all, and nothing is helping.

Yeah, I thought maybe too many sensors; epix2, chest strap, tempe, in reach, speed, cadence, phone, and my 840. I can get them all to active, but the only one to drop is the 840. I have it all shut down with none of the sensors attached to it. I may just go back to the 840 for all rides with all sensors. I ride some deep canyon walls facing north-ish and the drops happen in these and there are many of them, then I hit them again on the return. Oh well.

 

[Mudguard]

I've been through it all, and nothing is helping.

Yeah, I thought maybe too many sensors; epix2, chest strap, tempe, in reach, speed, cadence, phone, and my 840. I can get them all to active, but the only one to drop is the 840. I have it all shut down with none of the sensors attached to it. I may just go back to the 840 for all rides with all sensors. I ride some deep canyon walls facing north-ish and the drops happen in these and there are many of them, then I hit them again on the return. Oh well.

Yeah can't really help. I guess my question would be simply not to connect the 840 to the watch at all. I'm sure you've tried it nonetheless.
What does the inReach connect to, phone? I'm not sure what the Tempe sensor is.
Again if you have some steep terrain maybe nothing works. I guess changing the intervals to one second and making sure all the GPS satellite options are switched on is worth double checking.

 

[NordieBoy]

I'm not sure what the Tempe sensor is.

Garmin temperature sensor that can be connected to your laces, pack etc.

 

[Mudguard]

Garmin temperature sensor that can be connected to your laces, pack etc.

Ah makes sense. Didn't know they did them. I think the 840 should have one inbuilt? I thought my 520 does? Well it's telling me the temperature!

 

[Harold]

Ah makes sense. Didn't know they did them. I think the 840 should have one inbuilt? I thought my 520 does? Well it's telling me the temperature!

the inbuilt thermometer is really for calibrating the barometric altimeter, because temp matters for that. Garmins didn't always include temp as a selectable data field because the thermometer wasn't terribly accurate and they didn't think people cared. but people figured out how to see the temp that sensor was reporting, and garmin eventually made a selectable data field for it. but it's reporting temp of the device (which, to get a good barometric pressure reading with a digital sensor, you need to know the temp of the sensor). which has a rough correlation to the ambient temp, but not exactly. external thermometer lets you get better ambient temp measurements if that's important to you.

 

[Harold]

I ride some deep canyon walls facing north-ish and the drops happen in these and there are many of them, then I hit them again on the return. Oh well.

you're saying that there are devices that reliably get a location in those conditions? those are about worst-case conditions for gps-based location and are one reason why I feel like a wheel sensor is essential for mtb use (not the only one, but an important one).

 

[Offspring]

you're saying that there are devices that reliably get a location in those conditions? those are about worst-case conditions for gps-based location and are one reason why I feel like a wheel sensor is essential for mtb use (not the only one, but an important one).

I agree. When I was running both early on, I was getting different distances on each. I also run a wheel speed sensor. Maybe I'm betting different readings at different times on each one which is resulting in different distance readings? in these areas. Or the wheel speed is the right distance. I'm ready to give up on this and just run the watch, for ease of operation. I just don't understand why the connection between watch and 840 is glitchy once the two connect.

 

[Offspring]

What does the inReach connect to, phone?

Phone, earth mate app.

 

[NordieBoy]

Ah makes sense. Didn't know they did them. I think the 840 should have one inbuilt? I thought my 520 does? Well it's telling me the temperature!

Yep, I want to know the external temp, not the temp of the head unit.
They're 34x24x7mm and last a year or so on a 2032 battery.

 

[ghettocruiser]

the inbuilt thermometer is really for calibrating the barometric altimeter, because temp matters for that. Garmins didn't always include temp as a selectable data field because the thermometer wasn't terribly accurate and they didn't think people cared. but people figured out how to see the temp that sensor was reporting, and garmin eventually made a selectable data field for it. but it's reporting temp of the device (which, to get a good barometric pressure reading with a digital sensor, you need to know the temp of the sensor). which has a rough correlation to the ambient temp, but not exactly. external thermometer lets you get better ambient temp measurements if that's important to you.

FWIW, when I used both, there was no observable difference between the tempe sensor linked to my watch and the edge 530 UNLESS the sun is out.

Because you can hide the tempe sensor in the shade of your saddle or something, the difference gets pretty huge.

 

[Harold]

I agree. When I was running both early on, I was getting different distances on each. I also run a wheel speed sensor. Maybe I'm betting different readings at different times on each one which is resulting in different distance readings? in these areas. Or the wheel speed is the right distance. I'm ready to give up on this and just run the watch, for ease of operation. I just don't understand why the connection between watch and 840 is glitchy once the two connect.

depends on how much difference you were seeing between the two. if you look at dc rainmaker's reviews, he often puts multiple computers on his bike to run at the same time and there's always a discrepancy between them. which one is most accurate? you've gotta dig into the details to get an idea of that. in some cases, you can get a computer that will record the GPS position of your ride the most accurately, yet its total distance will be less accurate (on the short side) because of the whole shortcutting of corners thing. And sometimes you'll get a computer without a wheel sensor that will report a distance just as "accurately" as a computer with a wheel sensor, but if you look at the GPS track, it'll be off because of GPS wander. In those north-facing valleys, I tend to see a good bit of GPS wander in a track no matter what computer I use. And some dropouts if it's especially deep, narrow, and steep-walled (limiting the view of the sky and the number of satellites it can receive good signals from).

I don't know if ANT+ sensors have the capability to connect to two head units at the same time (I've never tried), but even if they can, each computer is going to be holding its own calibrations. Unless you manually enter the same calibration numbers on each computer (to ensure they are identical), the computers will be using Garmin's auto calibration, and each one is likely to be just a bit different. If the sensor cannot connect to two computers at once, then the difference will be especially notable, and the one with the wheel sensor is going to be reporting the best total distance, for sure.

I was reading a bit about the screen mirroring mode. I still use a plain 520 and it's not available to me. I read about it on dc rainmaker since he's pretty thorough about things.

How to: Garmin’s Semi-Secret Triathlon Display Mode (aka ‘Extended Display mode’) | DC Rainmaker

I was wondering if Garmin used BT for this connection, since I always have trouble with BT connections for extended data-hungry uses. It usually works fine for single, short-term use. But if I try to keep a connection running longer, it'll flake out at some point. Since this function seems to use ANT+, it made me wonder how data-hungry that particular function is compared to the other sensors. BITD, I used a Forerunner 310XT triathlon watch. In order to upload data from that particular device, my ONLY option was to send files over ANT+ to a computer (using an ANT+ usb dongle) and it was a nightmarish process. So I wonder if the screen mirroring thing is hard for ANT+ connections to maintain. Seems it's intended for triathlon uses, anyway, so I imagine the use case described above is how Garmin intended it to be used.

I have to wonder why y'all are using screen mirroring for regular rides? If you have the Edge head unit, why not just set up the Edge with all the sensors? If you're using the optical HRM on the watch, I do believe you can use the watch as your HRM sensor to send the data to the Edge (would be interesting to see if this connection had a different stability than a connection for screen mirroring). And then use the watch for watch things and for recording non-bike activities. Seems unnecessarily expensive to buy and use an Edge only for screen mirroring when you're not doing triathlons.

FWIW, when I used both, there was no observable difference between the tempe sensor linked to my watch and the edge 530 UNLESS the sun is out.

Because you can hide the tempe sensor in the shade of your saddle or something, the difference gets pretty huge.

Yes, that's exactly when the temp inaccuracies show up - when the Edge is getting sun exposure. I see those temp spikes on mine when the sun is on it. Usually I don't get super extended sun exposure on my computer given that I'm riding in thick forest much of the time. But occasionally I ride in places that are more exposed. But yeah, keeping a thermometer in the shade is absolutely standard protocol for getting the most accurate readings. That's why quality weather stations tend to put that sensor inside a vented enclosure.

But again, when the device heats up because it's in the sun, the barometric altimeter needs to be able to account for that.

 

[Mudguard]

Yep, I want to know the external temp, not the temp of the head unit.
They're 34x24x7mm and last a year or so on a 2032 battery.

That's true. I tend to ride under cover a lot so never thought about direct exposure. That said it's on my stem so shaded half the time anyway.

I do wonder how much variance there would be, I mean once there's airflow does that help neutralise it?

I agree with Harold's post and that's the point I was trying to make. I don't see the point of mirroring and feel like it's an unnecessary complication.

The 840 "should" be able to do everything you need and you can leave your watch as simply a back up and only record if the head unit malfunctions. I'm not sure how the sensors work, I know they can connect to different devices but I'm not sure they were designed to do that at the same time.